WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

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Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

I dont think a comparison can be made between a christmas tree and choclate easter eggs.

Between the two, the tree is the one with religious significance. The eggs are only eaten because they are choclate ones.

Waise bhi, The eggs come from the easter bunny. Bunny isnt religious, he only distributes choclate eggs.

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Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

Oh I remember we had a xmas tree in our apt when I was young. That didn’t screw me up at all. :k: (i’m NOT being sarcastic :hoonh: )

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Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

Thanks for this.

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Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

The bunny itself might not be religious but then neither was the tree on its own, it just came to be associated with Christianity later on.. You don't eat chocolate eggs at other times really, do u? Saying it's just chocolate is like saying a xmas tree is just a tree imo which is fine but can't say one is somehow ok and the other isn't and as Reha mentioned there are so many Hindu/Indian customs that have been incorporated into our culture, things that most desis won't bat an eyelid at..

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Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

finally :k:

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Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

Im sure before you wrote that out, you took the time to at least make sure it was true. Im sure it was just an oversight on your part when you forgot to mention Easter eggs ARE in fact representative of the resurrection of Christ. Its okay, it happens.

Now, Santa and the Easter Bunny are on the same level. They are fictitious characters primarily for the enjoyment of children. You got that part right.

We're all Google scholars Naabigh. No surprise there.

Going back to the christmas tree...its a tradition. There are no references in the Bible to a Christmas tree so lets not go there. It has no religious value. A Christian does not burn in hell if they dont put up a tree in their living room.

Seriously? We as a people spend so much time and effort creating issues out of non-issues and that is why Pakistanis and Muslims are so badnaam. We pick on stupid things...like a tree...and try to make ourselves out to be reeeeeeeeeeeeeeally smart. Like "look! i found something to pick on!" Never mind the fact that our entire country is at its worst right now...lets pick on a tree. Who debates this much and vehemently over poverty and raising money to help the poor? Who talks about those issues? No one. Because they're boring to our Bollywood-copycat culture. Now Christmas trees? Im sure a lot of faces will light up on that one! Not because people are opposed to it...but because they've never put one up or arent really familiar with it or dont care to. Its not opposition, its indifference and there is a difference between those two.

Halloween pe apne bachon ko trick or treating karne leke jayenge. Costumes pehnayenge. Easter pe apne bachon ko Easter egg khanay se nahin rokenge. Christmas pe SALES ki taraf bhookay bankay bhagenge. Thanksgiving pe TURKEY banayenge aise jaise turkey khatay huwe baray huwe thay. Apne larkiyon ko saat din mayun bitayenge. Unko jahaz denge. Sona denge. Apni izzat rakhne ke liye betiyon ko paraya kardenge. Rishwatein deke apne kaam karate hein. Kisi ne tree lagaya to "hayye hayye..."

The commonality Im noticing here is that

A - Pakistanis are addicted to differences. We LIKE differences among us and consider it a source of pride to have them. We will find anything - big or small - and use that as a divider between us and the rest of OUR OWN people. "Hum alag hein...hum itne ache hein...hum to aise hein. Auron ko dekho...kitne kharab"

B - We are immune to hypocrisy. None of us even feel it when we speak or type. Our senses have been dulled and we feel like its the other guy thats the hypocrite. No way could it be us. It is in fact...US.

Im sorry to say but this particular to ONLY Pakistanis and...frankly speaking...I find intolerance to be equivalent to having a bimari. I feel sorry for people who do naak moon chirana because it takes much more to be that way than not. It takes much more negativity to even have that mindset than to simply live and let live.

Live and let live. This is such a lost concept for us...haha.

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Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

Still i do not see the comparison between some choclate eggs and having a tree in your house.
And yes, people merely eat the eggs because they are made of choclate, nothing more.
Why you will not see people eating the eggs on other times?
Simple, because they are not available on a large scale in shops. HoNge in some maybe, but i have never seen.

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Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

Reha, first of all this is a discussion board. So obviously it is ment for discussion. So chill.

Secondly, only because somebody doesnt have the same opinion as you, doesnt mean nobody is stopping you from a having a christmas tree in your home.

Halloween pe apne bachon ko trick or treating karne leke jayenge.
Never done.

Costumes pehnayenge.
Never done.

Easter pe apne bachon ko Easter egg khanay se nahin rokenge.
Yes, because its all about the choclate.

Christmas pe SALES ki taraf bhookay bankay bhagenge.
I and many other Pakistanis never do.
And if there is a sale and people wanto buy stuff so that they can save some money, then why not?
Ab yeh na kehna that it is a christmas sale—> religious significance etc etc. You are just being out of context here.

Thanksgiving pe TURKEY banayenge aise jaise turkey khatay huwe baray huwe thay.
Again never done.

*Apne larkiyon ko saat din mayun bitayenge. *
Didnt even know people do that.

*Unko jahaz denge. *
Nothing wrong if the parents wanto give their daughter all these things when she marries.

*Sona denge. *
Again what is wrong in giving your daughter gold when she marries? Do only hindus do that??

*Apni izzat rakhne ke liye betiyon ko paraya kardenge. *
didnt get this one

*Rishwatein deke apne kaam karate hein. *
HaaNji, hum saaaaaray Pakistani rishwat khaur haiN :chai:

Please stop talking in ‘we’ terms. And really this ‘Thats why we are so badnaam’ sentence makes me laugh.
Picking on stupid things is a desi trait, all desis are hypocrates, blablabla :rolleyes:
Maybe you have never been amongst goray then.

Learn to live with the fact that others may not have to agree with you.
YOU are the one who is overreacting and getting all emotional here, only because some people disagree with keeping a christmas tree.
Did anyone forbid you or doubt your muslimness here?
I didnt see.

But you on the other hand, aap ne saray PakistaniuN ek hi ganday blender meiN daal kar aise mix kiya, ham sab ka kachoomar nikala. The good ones, the bad ones, for you they are all the same haina.

What the hell has the situation of the country to do with having a discussion about a christmastree or with any discussion at all?
In that case, Lets close down all forums of Gupshup and only make one forum: the worse state of Pakistan.

You are being exactly the kind of Pakistani that you are talking about.----> **B - We are immune to hypocrisy. None of us even feel it when we speak or type. Our senses have been dulled and we feel like its the other guy thats the hypocrite. No way could it be us. It is in fact…US. **

Hope you recognize yourself as that :slight_smile:

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Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

As for your last bit…I specifically said WE…WE is collective and includes me too. I am Pakistani and I find our attitudes despicable towards each other. We make no efforts to get along. If its not one thing, its another…but there has to be a divide or a difference.

Here…we have a stupid tree.

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Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

(:))

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i don't even get what the big deal is about having a christmas tree, i mean really...a gaudily dressed up hunk of green with an overdose of tinsel and light bulbs in the middle of my living room is hardly an appealing visual but thats because i have absolutely no emotional holiday or family related attachments to this symbol unlike my gora friends who relate to this symbol because that is what they have grown up with, totally understandable.

if i make it a part of the holiday season for my kids then they will relate to that too on the same level and grow up keeping that tradition, it doesn't hurt of course but it might end up taking the thunder away from our own celebrations, traditions and festivities, i would rather we make memories on eid with our own symbols of mehndi, eid namaz, choorian, kheer, eidi etc. instead of borrowing from other cultures. we have pretty much adopted everything from this culture in the name of cultural assimilation, i would like to at least not adopt this symbol because i simply don't feel the need to confuse my kids, they understand that we do not celebrate christmas so why confuse them then by dragging in a christmas tree and sending mixed msgs. thats just me and my family, so no one take this personally please, i don't get it when people get so worked over things like these and start putting down everyone just because they dare to differ.

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Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

Well here you start with an assumption again - so where from the negativity coming ?

Why cant you see the half full side of the glass and assume that people may have lived long enough in the west and may have questioned the related people regarding these theories ..

But again we all jump to conclusion with a set frame of mind and try to achieve the desired . And that's the reason I dont contribute much on this forum thesedays ! anyway that's a different ball game !

And there is nothing wrong with being or labeled as a Google scholar - the information is out there and the world is your oyster

The problem start when you start believing everything posted there and dont question your own intelligence .

I am not saying much here - but let us just pick this quote of yours that we Pakistanis are addicted to differences .. I say why go outside when you got some many bridges to repair among muslims .

how about that for a starter ..

In next Muharram - put an Aalam on your house or build an AzaKhana at your place - offer Majalis - Do maatam - wear Black through out the AshRa .. well none of these acts have religious significance as per your theory none of these can be proved by Quran ( the religious book in this context ) - Not only you do that , preach it to your people also - It will help building the common grounds between Shais and Sunnis ( the two major Muslim sects )

and let embrace Ahmedi muslims ( or qadyanis as people call them ) - The fatwa againts their Musalmaniyat is given by Islamic Scholars ( or Molvis in Urf-e-Aam) - so it has no credibility .. right ?

And also hug other cultural rituals of many other Muslim sects !

It aint about pointing out the differences and getting worked up on them - it is all about knowing your boundaries and staying within them ..

Indeed - The way we all debating over this minor issue - it seems like the way you said .. How many posts you or I have made on this topic . Where both of us could simply end this in one post by saying ' This is what I believe - And you are free to do what ever you like '

But hell no - we are still defending our POV - as if you believe something , you defend it otherwise no point believing you know ..

Saying ' live and let others live ' is such a cliche you know - who does that ?

I leave that for you to honestly answer .

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Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

Oh... i do get how sincerely you have apologized..and i appreciate that..
and infact I apologize to you for indulging you in this..

Christmas tree is not an issue for PAKISTANIs........its for those ABCDs who live in western/christianized countries......

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Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

:smack:

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Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

*Thats the point, its a foreign concept to us. Live and let live. We all love picking on each other. *

*As if we dont have enough to fight about...lets make a Christmas the next issue. *

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Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

Everything to do with Christianity reminds me of the 'Devil' called Terry Jones. And you know how we feel about the 'Devil'.

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Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

This would be LESS of an issue if Nadz’s aunti had just gotten a palm tree and decorated it with gota and chaandi ka varq. Shame. It’s ALL in the type of tree people, all in the type of tree. :no:

Interesting to note that the OP herself has disappeared. “You’re right” “Right” “Also right” …kar k bhaaag gayi!!! :hehe:

Maybe OP realized that she herself (and her family members) participate in celebrations or rasams that have no place in Islam. :smack:

My family has never put up a Christmas tree. And I personally wouldn’t put one up either. But it’s good to look at the errors we’re making ourselves ( to see if we follow every religious guideline to the T) before judging others.

Hopefully, OP, has learned a very valuable lesson and will not celebrate her baby daughter’s birthday and of course other rasams that have no religious significance.

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Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

its not the clothing, it may be for some, however alot of asians do have a complx-why do we want fairer skin? why is english A MUST in high society and even middle class pakistanis in pakistan, i was astonished when i went last year to pak,. that my cousins all spoke english, ( very badly) AND THOUGHT they sounded great…for them its a sign of class/education.
also i have this uncle who says he hates pakistan ( yet married his daughter to a pakistani from pak), wears english clothes to the point where he said HE HATES pakistani clothing, he HATES pakistani channels, he HATES islamic channels says, SAYS ANYONE READING THE AYTUL QURSI is mad if they are reading it for no reason other than at someones death…SAYS CHRISTMAS should be celebrated becacue we live in ENGLAND…and says hes only BRITISH…( he thinks he should be given a medal for it or something)( although born in pak and came here when he was 9). theres so many people like this and worse, my dads friend changed his NAME from anwar to andy…

THIS is what he meant reha…not eating spagetti rolls eyes

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Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

if you are a muslim ... why would you do something associated purely with christianity? its wrong.

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Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

Nadz....your original post dealt specifically with following practices associated with other religions. That is specifically what you were criticizing your aunt for......and before typing your thoughts about her....you should have also reflected on whether YOU adhere to every religious practice and whether YOU don't indulge in traditions that are not recognized by Islam. Why don't you try doing that? Cuz I've noticed that you get so caught up in the venting and as a result you miss other angles, exceptions, and even end up making contradictions.

NOW you're mentioning English and fair skin.....when it wasn't brought up in your original post. If you want people to get a better idea of what you mean by your post (which seems to be more about why some Desis are insecure about their own culture and identity) then make your original posts more thorough.

I haven't really seen my cousins in Pak trying to show off by speaking English. English is the universal language, that can't be ignored. I know that my cousins' parents (those that live in Pak) will tell them to try and learn English from us when we visit there. Then intention behind speaking English could possibly be to imitate being Western (but again....it's the Universal language and people across the globe speak it).........or the intention could even be to practice and learn. What puzzles me is that if I know that someone's ability to speak a language (be it English or otherwise) are FAR SUPERIOR than mine.............I personally would not try to "show off" around them with my poor skills. It would make me look like a fool...I don't see the logic behind that. I've always wanted to learn Spanish....wouldn't try to show off with my very meager skills around someone who is fluent. I would, however, indicate to the person that I have a desire to learn. These days if you want a job......you have to be able to communicate in English regardless of whether you belong to the higher society or the lower one.

As far as fair skin is concerned.....why the complex? Don't know exactly. Was this ideology influenced by those that were in power? Did fair skin reflect power.......as in the lower class who worked in the fields had darker and coarse skin....and those who could afford not to were lighter skinned? This is not only confined to desi people. Middle-Easterners....Hispanics....other races also have this problem. I'm not using this as justification. But then one can also point out that the HOORS mentioned in Islam are fair-skinned. Why aren't those pure maidens tan or dark?

Your uncle does not represent every single Desi/Muslim who lives in the West. I know several people from England who are not like your Uncle. I know of several people here in the US (the younger generation and the older as well) who have pride in their religion and culture.........and they've managed to create a balance between the east and west. Even the name thing, I've seen cases where I found it completely unnecessary.......and others were the person's name is a hard one like Qurratulain....and was shortened to Annie. I dunno.....raising your blood pressure over how others behave (when they'll be judged individually as you shall be) is a great way to take that evaluating eye away from oneself.