Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?
Bush converts to Islam 
…
Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?
allah kare i become such a good muslim where i i wont be doing all these things, however the ONLY REASON i refuse to have a christmas tree is for ONE AND ONLY reason because of its SIGNIFICANCE for another relgion, someone walking past my window and seeing atree would assume im a christian.
doing a birthday although has no relgious significance, it has NO SIGNIFICANCE to ANY RELIGION…which is why most people celebrate it.
Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?
allah kare i become such a good muslim where i i wont be doing all these things, however the ONLY REASON i refuse to have a christmas tree is for ONE AND ONLY reason because of its SIGNIFICANCE for another relgion, someone walking past my window and seeing atree would assume im a christian. doing a birthday although has no relgious significance, it has NO SIGNIFICANCE to ANY RELIGION.....which is why most people celebrate it.
Errrm I don't think you know that the whole decorating the tree business came about in Victorian age, which was like a century ago? So yeah in essence Christianity has very little (if nothing at all) to do with this whole tradition of decorating the tree, it is by and large a Western cultural innovation to mark the festive season.
My atheist, Hindu and Jewish neigbours put all sorts of typical Christmas decoration to mark the festive season for sake of their kids, but I guess unlike you, they don't find the idea of being confused as Christians as an insult. Why do desi Muslims have such militant and ugly feelings for such small things?
Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?
And Queen Victoria was my chachi hence I must follow her footsteps.
Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?
Errrm I don't think you know that the whole decorating the tree business came about in Victorian age, which was like a century ago? So yeah in essence Christianity has very little (if nothing at all) to do with this whole tradition of decorating the tree, it is by and large a Western cultural innovation to mark the festive season.
My atheist, Hindu and Jewish neigbours put all sorts of typical Christmas decoration to mark the festive season for sake of their kids, but I guess they don't find the idea of being assumed Christains insulting the way you perhaps do? Why do desi Muslims have such militant and ugly feelings for such small things?
It's mostly desis muslims who are so keen of christmas tree etc. . Just look at the muslim converts, they're more strict on this issue than most born muslims, they care more about Islamic celebrations than born muslims.
My cousin who's a muslim and has a long beard and he decorates a christmas tree every year, he does it only because he feels pressure and insult for not putting up a tree living in a mostly white area.
It comes down to the fact that some people are sheep, some are not.
Now don't take the word"sheep" as an insult, it was a figure of speech.
Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?
its not the clothing, it may be for some, however alot of asians do have a complx-why do we want fairer skin? why is english A MUST in high society and even middle class pakistanis in pakistan, i was astonished when i went last year to pak,. that my cousins all spoke english, ( very badly) AND THOUGHT they sounded great....for them its a sign of class/education. also i have this uncle who says he hates pakistan ( yet married his daughter to a pakistani from pak), wears english clothes to the point where he said HE HATES pakistani clothing, he HATES pakistani channels, he HATES islamic channels says, SAYS ANYONE READING THE AYTUL QURSI is mad if they are reading it for no reason other than at someones death.......SAYS CHRISTMAS should be celebrated becacue we live in ENGLAND...and says hes only BRITISH.....( he thinks he should be given a medal for it or something)( although born in pak and came here when he was 9). theres so many people like this and worse, my dads friend changed his NAME from anwar to andy....
THIS is what he meant reha.....not eating spagetti rolls eyes
The idea of bubble living is so clear with you. Besides English being the Universial language, we Asians have a 'thing' for English because we are former British colony, where do you think countries like South Africa / USA/New Zealand etc got the English from? Why do some people only have to degrade Asians in that regard? You think Spanish and French are some kind of dead and burried languages in former colonies of France and Spain (in fact you'd be surprised to know about their infleunce in current day). If it wasn't English, we would probably be having Russian or French as a so called second official langauge considering they also had their eyes in the subcontinent for the colonial interests.
Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?
It's mostly desis muslims who are so keen of christmas tree etc. . Just look at the muslim converts, they're more strict on this issue than most born muslims, they care more about Islamic celebrations than born muslims.
My cousin who's a muslim and has a long beard and he decorates a christmas tree every year, he does it only because he feels pressure and insult for not putting up a tree living in a mostly white area.
It comes down to the fact that some people are sheep, some are not.
Now don't take the word"sheep" as an insult, it was a figure of speech.
I don't have any soft corner or hard feelings for those who put every little effort into looking like outright Muslims. But I generally laugh at ignorant desi Muslims who think decorating the tree is some sort of putting Bible's words into action, when in actual fact it has nothing to do with the actual message of Christianity (heck this tradition is not even presented by any Saint as far as I'm aware) its a Victorian cultural innovation to commercialise, harmonise the festive season.
We have a small tree in our house which my little niece and newphew love to decorate, they're born in UK, they go to school here, they are made to get excited about Christmas, if my sister and brother in law has problem with this then they can hapily move to Saudi Arabia but thank God they don't get all militant and bitter about such little things. They are more than capable of drawing the line between intended harmless fun and pure sheep walking (the case of your cousin in that case).
Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?
Fair enough if we are talking about people who are keen to put every effort into looking like outright Muslims.
I don't have any soft corner or hard feelings for those who put every little effort into looking like outright Muslims. But I generally laugh at ignorant desi Muslims who think decorating the tree is some sort of putting Bible's words into action, when in actual fact it has nothing to do with the actual message of Christianity (heck this tradition is not even presented by any Saint as far as I'm aware) its a Victorian cultural innovation to commercialise, harmonise the festive season.
It says on wikipedia that it is associated with St. Boniface but origins go back to Pagans.
Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?
If we believe whole heartedly that Jesus(AS) was a prophet of Islam , then celebrating his birth in any shape and form should not be considered shirk. If we determine that celebrating any body's birthday is shirk then it is a whole new issue.
while the date can be debated, I see no issue with celebrating the birthday of a prophet, Issa pbuh
people will now argue about specific dates and manners of celebrations
I am sure the way eid milad un nabi is celebrated for Prophet Muhammad Pbuh in Pakistan is not quite the way it was celebrated/observed in the prophet's time, but we will stand by naats and halway and all, so what is then the big deal if one uses a christmas tree to celebreate eid milad ul maseeh :) aka birthday of prophet issa.
Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?
Why can’t we leave people alone and let them do what they do for any reason?
Why try to push them one way or other such as the tree decoration? 
Why hail those who do and condemn/criticize those who do not or vice versa? Seriously.
Just accept opinion and move on, on such a non-issue.
Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?
Good point, the worse thing is that these non issues become so important for people that the basics of religion escape them, focus on the faraiz and haqooq al ibaad first…with the amount of rhetoric we see in our communities one would think that its only a major point of contention because everything else is all squared away…
Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?
i'm not criticizing anyone, people can do whatever they want, they can even start eating sacramental bread and parsaad....wouldn't bother me really. i was only stating my own doings and reasons behind them. sorry if it sounded offensive to anyone.
Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?
I was speaking in general hareem, its the how many angels can fit on the top of a needle type of stuff that keeps ppl busy while the critical aspects of faith go unpracticed
Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?
This thread is becoming a joke…
I am with X2 and Diwana on this one… but Hareem01 your points are very good too. :k:
Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?
I think if people are having discussion just for the sake of discussion, and having fun doing it, there nothing really wrong with it. Sometimes, in seemingly futile discussions, people learn great things. It's always fun to read different point of views. They are all colors. :)
Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?
^ Fair point and one I shall take note of... :)
Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?
restless- discussions are always great, but people tend to get very vested in those, have emotional outbursts, attacks on others views, beliefs, personalities, upbringing, muslim-ness etc. there are some tints of that in this thread too although not to bad levels. Thats what we have to look out for
Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?
Every part of Christmas celebration is not religious in nature. Having a tree or eating turkey is not at all religious. Its all in good fun for most of the part. I dont do trees but I certainly take advantage of Christmas sales (dont we all). One can argue that Christmas sale is also shirk as its part of celebrating Christmas . We also watch movies with Christmas themes (Polar Express is our family favorite). Is that Shirk? I seriously doubt but one can argue that each and everything that has anything to do with Christmas is shirk, but as X2 said, there are many core disciplines we need to fix in our faith before we get into such side issues of Christmas trees and Halloween costumes.
Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?
My inlaws have a beautiful one in their home. I don't mind it, but I would not want one in my home. I want to put effort into making Muslim holidays special, and creating memories around those.
Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?
while the date can be debated, I see no issue with celebrating the birthday of a prophet, Issa pbuh people will now argue about specific dates and manners of celebrations I am sure the way eid milad un nabi is celebrated for Prophet Muhammad Pbuh in Pakistan is not quite the way it was celebrated/observed in the prophet's time, but we will stand by naats and halway and all, so what is then the big deal if one uses a christmas tree to celebreate eid milad ul maseeh :) aka birthday of prophet issa.
There’s a lot wrong with the way people celebrate Eid Miland un Nabi I agree, and I'm sure if we were to sit here we could come up with a list of things we do that are wrong. But his thread is specific on Christmas trees. If people want to turn a blind eye and believe the nonsense that it has "nothing to do with Christmas or Christianity" then that is upto them. But as a Muslim it is haram to celebrate Christmas, and that should be made very clear. Doesn’t matter how a ‘long essay people right stating "this" and "this" is also wrong, or however many "ha's" they put in their post to make it acceptable. Celebrating Christmas is still haram. But if they still wish to celebrate with a Christmas tree then good look to them but they should stop trying to justify it because that will just confuse other people.