Karachi was nothing but a small port prior to partition.
Oh yes, it was a little tiny village before partition, and Altaf the hut made it what it is.
Oh yes, it was a little tiny village before partition, and Altaf the hut made it what it is.
So are you saying that the commercial success of Karachi has nothing to do with the Muhajirs?
Why have Gwadar, Ormara, Pasni and Jivni , not been turned into commercial hubs, despite the various unsuccesful attempts at affirmative action towards the Baluch.
And compare Lyari, which essentialy a Shidi-Sindhi-Baluch neighbourhood with working class Muhajir communities such as Korangi, Lalokhet, and Aurangi, which are much more vibrant, and people investing in their kids education. I was in Lalokhet, and was surprised at the amount of tuition centres.
Whether you like it or not, the Muhajir are a hard working community, and their contribution to Karachi and Pakistan cannot be under estimated.
Now with regards to Altaf, I have very little time for him. But in the absence of the state's willingness to protect the Muhajir community, they have little choice but to depend on the MQM. Take this recent example of Rahmat Dakait in Lyari, with out the threat the of the MQM, these Baluch would have commited atrocities on the vulnerable Muhajir communities in Osmanabad and Garden.
And how conviently you forget the party which you support, which has actually done much worse, considering they were sitting with both of the afore mentioned gentlemen in their respective terms and went parsecs beyond just looting and corruption; killed and terrorized thousands. If Zardari is looting the country then why doesnt your party sit in the opposition right now?
Well its not my party. In an ideal world I would never support the MQM. But I have yet to meet anyone who will call Pakistan ideal. And by sitting in opposition is hardly going to help the people of Karachi. I am from Dadu, and I have seen hope how useless the PPP is. There MPA, a guy called Jamali is a your picture postcard Sindhi Wadera. The day the Sindhi ditch the PPP and the Punjabis ditch the Gunja, I will ditch the MQM.
And whose to going to tell the Pathans to ditch Bin Ladin, I doubt its going to be you Mr Spock. I am always logical, unlike a certain Vulcan.
So are you saying that the commercial success of Karachi has nothing to do with the Muhajirs?
Keep living in Altaf's world, and get out of this 'victim' mentality you are suffering from please. If you or anyone else moved to Pakistan and did something good for it, stop bragging about it already. And those that benefited Karachi economically benefited themselves too, thats the whole idea about being successful in business.
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Why have Gwadar, Ormara, Pasni and Jivni , not been turned into commercial hubs, despite the various unsuccesful attempts at affirmative action towards the Baluch.
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I dont know how this relates to my point but maybe you should ask Babur Ghauri, proud member of the MQM as he was primarily responsible for Gwadar's screwup. Also, most of your 'friends' here, including the pro-mushies think Gwadar is some sort of commercial success.
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And compare Lyari, which essentialy a Shidi-Sindhi-Baluch neighbourhood with working class Muhajir communities such as Korangi, Lalokhet, and Aurangi, which are much more vibrant, and people investing in their kids education. I was in Lalokhet, and was surprised at the amount of tuition centres.
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What are you babbling about? Karachi WAS actually in better shape before partition. Now its rated as one of the worst cities in terms of livability by a reputed source, not that any other cities have in Pakistan underwent any positive change in that direction.
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Whether you like it or not, the Muhajir are a hard working community, and their contribution to Karachi and Pakistan cannot be under estimated.
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And the lecture goes on, oh bhai, I just agreed with you saying Karachi was a little village before partition and Altaf Bhai came and made it into the best city in the world. I agree with your statement BUT I would add that the 'Ansar' are equally as hard working as the Mohajirs. Can you please stop this bekaar ka lecture now?
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Now with regards to Altaf, I have very little time for him. But in the absence of the state's willingness to protect the Muhajir community, they have little choice but to depend on the MQM. Take this recent example of Rahmat Dakait in Lyari, with out the threat the of the MQM, these Baluch would have commited atrocities on the vulnerable Muhajir communities in Osmanabad and Garden.
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Please spare me this justification and just admit, you're a MQM supporter, no ifs or buts.
Well its not my party. In an ideal world I would never support the MQM. But I have yet to meet anyone who will call Pakistan ideal. And by sitting in opposition is hardly going to help the people of Karachi. I am from Dadu, and I have seen hope how useless the PPP is. There MPA, a guy called Jamali is a your picture postcard Sindhi Wadera. The day the Sindhi ditch the PPP and the Punjabis ditch the Gunja, I will ditch the MQM.
And whose to going to tell the Pathans to ditch Bin Ladin, I doubt its going to be you Mr Spock. I am always logical, unlike a certain Vulcan.
Yes, Mr. Logical who supports a criminal like Altaf Hussain; Sindh has seen a PML[N] based Govt and Punjab has voted for the PPP in power (1993), so your excuse for supporting Altaf Hussain makes absolutely no sense. Now go and ditch Altaf please, since your logic (if you wanna call it that) is heap.
This target killing violence in Karachi was perpetrated by the MQM to divert attention from that Ashura blast that the MQM themselves masterminded. They are basically trying to extort the PPP and its fragile hold on power from exposing them.
Re: Whats Going On In Karachi
A question for Mr Spock. What has been the Punjabi contribution to Pakistan, other then seccesion of Bangladesh.
Re: Whats Going On In Karachi
Please direct such racists questions to the party leader altaf bhai and not me. I am sure he can turn this question into a sham-e-ghareeba session with his usual r-roona dhoona.
Also, while you’re at it, can you please tell me what MQM’s contribution to Pakistan has been, apart from extortion, corruption, terrorism, bhattakhori etc?
Re: Whats Going On In Karachi
Can you tell me what the PML N has done for Pakistan.
I am not a MQM supporter, and don't defend Altaf's histrionics. But you seem to have phobia about all things Muhajir. If you made Punjabi the official language, I would'nt care. I am confident that my people can adapt. But you seem to have turned this forum into a MQM baiting forum.
And Muhajir as an ethnic group are distinct from the MQM as a party. Don't confuse the two.
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My beef is with the MQM and not the 'mohaijr despite your best efforts to combine them by playing the victim card again and again, and for your information, the MAJORITY of the mohajirs migrated from East Punjab to West Punjab. And please done give this ‘rare’ babble about not supporting Altaf Hussain because its very obvious from your other posts that you support him. Nawaz Sharif is a fat ******* now lets hear you say the same for Altaf Hussain. Dont make any excuses, lets hear you denounce Altaf Hussain now that I have denounced Nawaz Sharif. If you dont call altaf a fat ****** please dont deny you’re not his supporter.
What are you babbling about? Karachi WAS actually in better shape before partition. Now its rated as one of the worst cities in terms of livability by a reputed source, not that any other cities have in Pakistan underwent any positive change in that direction.
I am sorry but that is a ridiculous statement. Karachi is a vibrant, cosmopolitan city and an economic powerhouse compared to the rest of the country. And that is in no small part because of the efforts of those who came to inhabit it post partition. Yes MQM appears to joke of a party at times but it is not universally supported even in Karachi and in any case there is hardly any party in the country that is beyond reproach. MQM also sure beats PML-N which has pro-extremist leanings and no less self-indulgent leaders styling themselves as amirulmomineens.
i) Do you know what ‘liveability’ means?
ii) Also, ever heard of the Economist?
Not sure what amirulomineem is, but whatever it is, its probably better than Altaf Hussain.
If Karachi is ranked so low in “liveability”, I don’t see other cities in the country faring any better.
Where is Lahore with its 8 million people, a population more than that in some of the countries whose cities are listed. Or any other city in Pakistan. Surely you are aware that there are more than 123 cities in the world and more than 1 in Pakistan. Other cities in Pakistan did not even warrant a mention. So low is their significance.
And as for who you think is better than whom, I don’t care.
Re: Whats Going On In Karachi
The Vulcan obvouisly has a pathological dislike for all things Muhajir, and I not going to get into a stupid argument.
All I will say, is if you Punjabis want to stop Pakistan from disintergerating, then you have to accept its diversity. Altaf is idiot, and embarases me, but he is my idiot. In the last eight years, money has been put into Karachi by my fellow Muhajir Musharaf. If you had come to Karachi in the 90s, when your man was in charge, then all you would see was death and distruction. The roundabouts had military check points, and the parks were turned into Rangers camps. A lot of the violence then was state sponsored. The MQM is full of goondas, but so is every single political party.
I gave references to four books, none written by Muhajirs, who confirm the expulsion of Urdu-speaking Muslims to Pakistan. If you fail to accept the truth, then its your fault.
So go grab a glass of Lassi, sit down, listen to the soothing tunes of Abrar's kine jaana billo de ghar and hopefully that calms you down.
The MQM is full of goondas, but so is every single political party. .
Not true.
No party is based wholly on criminal activity like the MQM.
No other party runs torture cells, extortion rackets, etc like the MQM.
No other party has killed thousands like the MQM
Re: Whats Going On In Karachi
every single incident has some conspiracy behind it. :)
@ Khan15
Please make up your mind
First you talk of 'Punjabis' inability to build up urdu' whatever that means
Then you said 'Punjabi run media which takes great pleasure in showing Karachi in a bad light'
The two most popular Urdu newspapers in Pakistan were both founded by Punjabis
JANG - Mir Khalil-ur-Rahman (Gujranwala, his ancestors were Kashmiris)
NAWA-i-WAQT - Majid Nizami (Sheikhupura)
Most TV anchors are either Punjabis or urdu-speakers. I know some Punjabis speak urdu with a funny deep accent (e.g. Khwaja Asif, Jahangir Badar, that PPP joker from Punjab...forgetting his name) but the vast majority have no problems speaking good urdu. Mind you Punjab has produced poets like Iqbal and Faiz. If anything it is the smaller provinces esp. Baluchis, Sindhis and even pathans that have problems grasping urdu language, hence you don't find many of them on either current shows or urdu dramas/serials
So are you saying that the commercial success of Karachi has nothing to do with the Muhajirs?
Why have Gwadar, Ormara, Pasni and Jivni , not been turned into commercial hubs, despite the various unsuccesful attempts at affirmative action towards the Baluch.
And compare Lyari, which essentialy a Shidi-Sindhi-Baluch neighbourhood with working class Muhajir communities such as Korangi, Lalokhet, and Aurangi, which are much more vibrant, and people investing in their kids education. I was in Lalokhet, and was surprised at the amount of tuition centres.
Whether you like it or not, the Muhajir are a hard working community, and their contribution to Karachi and Pakistan cannot be under estimated.
Now with regards to Altaf, I have very little time for him. But in the absence of the state's willingness to protect the Muhajir community, they have little choice but to depend on the MQM. Take this recent example of Rahmat Dakait in Lyari, with out the threat the of the MQM, these Baluch would have commited atrocities on the vulnerable Muhajir communities in Osmanabad and Garden.
The same oft repeated arguments i hear from most MQM supporters. The superiority comples runs deep and gives justification claim on better resources compared to rest of the communities.
Khan bhai, come out of MQM corner meetings and try to see other side of picture also.
If muhajir community is so hard working, then what is the situation of the cousins that stayed behind in UP, CP, Delhi and Bihar? Their literacy rate is far too lower than hindus, their employment rates are pathetically low and their womenfolk the most backward. Read the sachar report and you can see how much has muhajir community gained from Pakstan.
As for the argument that Karachi would not have progressed without muhajir community, i respectfully disagree. It might have progressed a bit slowly but definitely would have been the same now, regardless of who lives in the city. Its prime reason for being vibrant city is it being the only port for decades in a country as big as Pakistan, something which has nothing to do with ethnicity of its residents.
Dhaka was nothing prior to partition, all trade of Bengal occured through Mumbai, when mumbai was no longer their, dhaka developed gradually and now has economy same as Karachi. It was not upians that made dhaka.
On the other hand the rural communities of Sindh did not get as much chance of developing after partition because of influx of better educated muhajir community that occupied most of government jobs and civil beaurocracy. The only community that was able to compete with muhajirs weer Punjabis due to their sheer numbers and thanx to Punjab university.
unfortunately you know nothing about karachi and its history and here are some images which you can see how karachi was in 1800s 1920s etc.
karachi in 1889 Karachi - 1889 pictures from history photos on webshots it was no village my dear.
empress market: Empress Market - 1889 pictures from history photos on webshots
Sindh CLub: Sindh Club, Karachi 1900 pictures from history photos on webshots
Bohree bazar Bohree Bazzar, Karachi 1917. pictures from history photos on webshots
Clifton Beach Clifton, Karachi 1930, and as was seen in 1948 pictures from history photos on webshots
Karachi port building it stands today same Karachi Port Trust, 1917 pictures from history photos on webshots
elphinestone street: Elphinstone Street, 1917. pictures from history photos on webshots
Zaibunissa street Zaibunissah Street, Old Elphinstone Street, Karachi, 1930, way before independence. pictures from history photos on webshots
Capital cinema Inside Star cnema pictures from history photos on webshots
Gandho garden which we now call zoo : Gandhi Garden, Karachi 1930 pictures from history photos on webshots
karachi tram and read ad on it Karachi Tram - History now pictures from history photos on webshots
DJ Science College, Karachi 1930 pictures from history photos on webshots
1947 independance day celebrations First Indepnedence Day celeberations. August 14,1947 pictures from history photos on webshots
so much have changed my dear after independance, cities which used to be the hubs of trading have rotten now , i know little bits of history through tales from my granfather who dies 15 years ago at the age of 90 so i have tits and bits of 100 years of history.
prepartition much of the trading was land based due to lack of comunication networks (roads) and means (transports) people used to rely on most basic needs these were food stuff clothing etc and all these gadgets that you see these days which some how increased the trading volume came later.
karachi saw tremendous growth after 50 or i may 60s when sperhighway was built then whole country started relying on it…
i am in no way denying the contributions of a community but if some one says all was done by one i simply disagree…
we had hindu traders before then came the memons and now punjabis and specially chiniotis and pathans and sindhi are making inroads as well.
i am appalled at wrong dose of history you and us had been given…
also when you starting targeting a community i.e punjabis please note one thing throughout history Greed doesnt care for cast or creed but only have too much of something..
in the battle of haves and have nots dont bring the ethnicity in between this is what happen when you start classifying the people before it was hindu muslim, then it became sindhi, punjabi, urdu etc and when every one would become urdu for say then it would be shia sunni, siddiqui, sheikh, bihari, UP, CP and there is no limit…
So are you saying that the commercial success of Karachi has nothing to do with the Muhajirs?
Why have Gwadar, Ormara, Pasni and Jivni , not been turned into commercial hubs, despite the various unsuccesful attempts at affirmative action towards the Baluch.
Karachi was a successful port even before the muhajirs arrived here. The biggest contribution to turn it in to a successful port goes to Parsi community. Parsi community settled in Karachi much before the arrival of any other community, and they are the ones who turned a small fishing village in to a successful port. If I send you pictures of Karachi before 1947 you will realize it resembled some Eurpeon city. The plaque on BVS Parsi School says the date of establishment as 1859. It's a pity that most of the younger educated Parsis have left Karachi now in last 20 years, like most of the educated Agha Khanis, bohris, memons, Punjabis and Muhajirs after MQM started their ethnic based hate politics.
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And compare Lyari, which essentialy a Shidi-Sindhi-Baluch neighbourhood with working class Muhajir communities such as Korangi, Lalokhet, and Aurangi, which are much more vibrant, and people investing in their kids education. I was in Lalokhet, and was surprised at the amount of tuition centres.
Whether you like it or not, the Muhajir are a hard working community, and their contribution to Karachi and Pakistan cannot be under estimated.
[/quote]
It's true that mohajirs are a hard working community and they give it a lot of importance to education. You have to understand that most of the people in Karachi are mohajirs. Agha Khanis, Bohris, Memons etc are Gujrati speaking mohajirs. These people are much more educated and enterprising than most of the Urdu/Punjabi/Pathan mohajirs. There are many Urdu speaking muhajirs. Sindhis, Punjabis, and Pathans are also muhjirs in Karachi. The original population of Karachi are the fishermen poulation mostly living in Lyari/Kemari and they are mostly Makrani origin even different from rest of Baluchis.
Karachi in last 20 years has a big problem retaining the educated young people from all these diversified groups who otherwise can make Karachi much better than what it is now.
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Now with regards to Altaf, I have very little time for him. But in the absence of the state's willingness to protect the Muhajir community, they have little choice but to depend on the MQM. Take this recent example of Rahmat Dakait in Lyari, with out the threat the of the MQM, these Baluch would have commited atrocities on the vulnerable Muhajir communities in Osmanabad and Garden.
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I disagree with you completely here.
I am a born Karachite who went to Schools/Colleges in Karachi. The beauty of Karachi is diverse people living like one big community. Still today in schools children have friends from diverse communities. Karachi is not Urdu speaking mohajir only.
It is really sad on your part to misguide people that one Rehman Dakait from Lyari can destroy the harmony Karachites achieved in 200 hundred years in a second. Makranis have been living in Karachi for thousands of years, and when other communities shifted to Karachi they always lived in peace and harmony with them. Although they always lived in their own areas they never created trouble for anyone.
Karachi is mini Pakistan. Please do not project my city as some hate filled ethnic gang war place. It's high time that we should start thinking like Pakistanis and we must understand we have a much stronger bond being Pakistanis. Altafs, Zardaris, Nawazs will come and go. Atleast the educated people of our country should not allow people to become their leaders who are trying to exploit ethnic divide for thier personal politics.
Being more educated people of Karachi have a duty to give national leadership to the country in every sphere of life not only politics. It's high time they should say a big no to any ethnic politics, and justifying one wrong with another wrong will never let us become positive. We should stop our wrong, which will inspire others to give up their wrongs. That's the only way forward my friend!
Let's identify Rehman dakait as a criminal instead of identifying him as Makrani trying to destroy Urdu speaking community. Similarly lets identify Urdu speaking terrorist as criminals who are indulged in gang wars killing every ethnic group including rival urdu speaking people. Let's not become supporters of anyone of these criminals...irrespective of their ethnic backgrounds.
A question for Mr Spock. What has been the Punjabi contribution to Pakistan, other then seccesion of Bangladesh.
A "parha likha" jahil is probably a bigger threat to Pakistan an average jahil Pakistani. As i have said earlier, racist idiots are the biggest problem and are responsible for the mess today.
I don't want to spend hour writing achievements of punjabis in Pakistan because i will rather spend that time talking about achievemtns of PAKISTANIS.
If Altaf is YOUR idiot then keep supporting your idiot, i don't support any idiots just because they belong to same province. I am from Punjab and don't support Ganja one bit, i think he is an IDIOT but certainly not my idiot.