Whats Going On In Karachi

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
21

Re: Whats Going On In Karachi

[mod] Everyone please stay civilized when discussing the issue. No need to play ethnic/sectarian cards here. That is strictly against the forum rules & all such posts will be removed and members will get infractions. [/mod]

22

We all talk about brainwashing of young chiledren by talibans but most of us are brainwashed in one way or another. Why do you think Punjabis control the media??? Almost ALL the major news channels are controlled by Karachi based businessmen ( i have absolutely no problem with that ). Geo is my favourite news channel but it's quite disappointing when they cover Altaf Hussain's each and every telephonic address. Geo might be doing this under pressure but no one gets more coverage than this Altaf but his supporters still blame punjabis for running the show (their favourite excuse). It is indeed an awful mess but look at yourself first before pointing fingers, your racist attitude towards other ethnicities is part of this mess. There are dozens of good Punjabi poets, writers etc but you have obviously been brainwashed too much to understand that.

23

although m no supporter of MQM but it is wrong when you say altaf gets undue coverage, i regularly watch news tv channels and most of the time they cover what zardari and nawaz sharif said and they cover them both whenever they hold a conference a jalsa etc and same goes for PMLQ .
i used to feel way you said but calculating time i found they arent getting undue share but it seems to us due to our peception about the MQM and it is compounded due to dumb headed speeches and style.

24

i dont and cant deny what you have said history has multiple dimensions and unfortunately ours is written mostly on lies.

we have even not let our people know how great Quaid was and kept him in the bag of islam and muslims , it came to know about him and how great person he was after 26 years of my life before my view of him was simply nothing.

it has been sixty years and still one major portion of population being called muhajir its an irony and a insult in my opinion.
may be some people are using that term but fact is they are no more mohajirs they can call themselves sindhi, urdu, bihari, siddiqui, sheikh, etc .

upon seeing the city now i feel proud of those migrated and their achievements they came to a new land and most of them prospered with their sheer hard work than what they left in india and this is what makes Story of Pakistan a success.

25

I am not sure about other channels but Geo for sure covers almost ever speech by Altaf Hussain. I can assure you that Altaf gets more coverage than Nawaz $harif, Zardari or even Gilani. Whenever something happens, Altaf Hussain's comments/views are the first ones to be reported and his useless telephonic adresses are NEVER missed.

26

I don't want to go in details of how many Muhajirs were expelled, and how many came voluntarily, but I must object to to is this guy's comment. He is clearly suggesting a wholesale expulsion of the Muhajir ethnic group. Nothing to with the MQM or PPP or Lyari, or how much coverage Altaf gets on T.V, or if there are any Punjabi writters. This, specially in light of the history of the Muhajir, and there orignal journey to Pakistan was on trains.

I am just a bit disappointed that no one else seems to think that this comment is objectionable.

27

Totally agree with this point. Muhajirs have worked hard and created the commercial hub that is Karachi. And by creating this hub, they have helped countless Pashtun, Seraikis, Baluchis to create economic well being for themselves in this city, which accepts all.

We respect Punjabi culture and traditions, and expect the same from them.

28

Khan sahib,

you are referring to Mostar's comment on trains back to UP. Correct?

It would be considered racist, however, if you know Mostar bhai's good history and him being an Urdu speaking, you would have realizes that he was being facetious.

29

Re: Whats Going On In Karachi

.

30

I hope you don't mind me asking this question (for history's sake).

What town are you pointing to? Which state? What was the population of this town before 1947 (and Muslim ratio).

When did it become Muslim-less?

Even if I am asking these questions. I realize that some small town may have suffered from holocaust.

However in July through September of 1947, things were not drastic in Muslim majority Indian states such as Bihar and UP. Not like East Punjab where TOTAL annihilation of Muslims happened, and in West Punjab where TOTAL annihilation of non-Muslims happened.

Thus the holocaust of 1947, in true sense happened only Punjab (and the blame goes to Punjabis in the first place).

all other stories of Muslim holocaust in 1947 UP and Bihar are simply fabrication and politically motivated.

31

Re: Whats Going On In Karachi

And our politica parties continue to excel in propagating ethnic chuavanism and ethnic terrorism.

The enlightened, moderate, progressive MQM and PPP!!!!! KMF

Government has ordered a halt to operation in Liyari !! Yeah bcoz the ghundas voted for them.

32

Re: Whats Going On In Karachi

PPP vs MQM in fact more of a PPPs drugs wing vs MQMs bhatta wing !

33

Yaar Burqa, I can't beleive you can make this statement. Part of my family are from Haryana, and every single Muslim there was expelled. In Alwar and Bharatpur, in north Rajasthan, every single Muslim was expelled. In 1946, there was nasty riots in North East Bihar, with an estimated 20,000 people killed. In 47, there were killings all over western UP, with really nasty attacks on Muslim villages in Mathura. There were arson attacks in Lukhnow and Kanpur, and villages in rural Awadh. 40,000 Muslims left Shahjahanpur in seven weeks. In the Delhi territory (now Delhi state), the Muslim poulation dropped from 37% to 5%. Muslim neighbourhoods like Sabzi Mandi, and the Qasbas of Mehrauli and Najafgarh were emptied of all the Muslims. In my ancestral village in Rohtak District, everyone was expelled.

I am not even go to talk about 1971.

This goes someway to explain why the MQM is so popular, as it is perceived to protect Urdu-speakers, despite its sometimes over zealous activities, and histrionics of Altaf Hussain.

34

Re: Whats Going On In Karachi

^ Thanks for brining up the facts and stats to the table. :k:

Time Pass December
35

Re: Whats Going On In Karachi

I think things are going to be better now. The leaders of both the parties are working together to come up with solution.

36

with all due respect this is where problem is, when somebody takes credit for something that was already there or when its not due.

karachi was always the business hub and was much better than it was in early 50s and 60s so no one created it for no one as it stood there already before 1947 .
when i said i was proud of the migrants (at that time no more they are migrants in my view) because they came to a new land they struggled and they made their place and that is a big thing starting from a scratch and i do admit there were plenty of opportunities there after hindu and other community businesses left for india or dubai but still availing those opportunities required brains and hardwork.

also my reference was for the middle class karachite who worked on the jobs did overtimes etc and prospered at that time.

so please correct yourself and your history view that somebody made this city it was already there but surely so much was contributed to it.

37

Karachi was nothing but a small port prior to partition. Most of the Punjab trade went to Bombay and even Calculta. It is also a historic fact that refugee groups work harder, take the example of the Jews who fled to America from Tsarist persecution in Russia. Or for that matter Sindhi Hindus who fled Karachi in 1948, such as the Hindujas.

The contribution of the Muhajir to sectors such as banking, insurance and shipping cannot be underestimated. The Jafars and Gokuls single handedly build Karachi port.

I can't understand why you people are not willing to accept the great majority of the Muhajir community were refugees. Wikepedia defines displaced persons as follows:

"The term was first widely used during World War IIand the resulting refugee outflows from Eastern Europe, when it was used to specifically refer to one removed from his or her native country as a refugee, prisoner or a slave laborer. The meaning has significantly broadened in the past half-century. A displaced person may also be referred to as a forced migrant. The term "refugee" is also commonly used as a synonym for displaced person, causing confusion between the general descriptive class of anyone who has left their home."

The magic word is forced migrant. Now if you look at these four, two by Indian authors and two by Gore,

1) The Long Partition and the Making of Modern South Asia by Vazira Zamindar

2) Liberty or Death – India’s Journey to Independence and Division by Patrick French

3) City of Djin by William Darlymple

4) India's Partition: Process, Strategy and Mobilization (Oxford in India Readings. Themes in Indian History by Mushirul Hasaan

While it might be accepted that **some **Muhajir were unaffected by violence personally, but the decision to leave must have been influenced by the pervailing atmosphere. These books are a clear in recording the large number of orchestrated attacks on Muslims in Delhi, Meerut, Aligarh, and whole sale ethnic cleansing in Haryana and North Rahasthan. Have you heard of a place called Deir Yassin, its a village in central Palestine. The Isrealis massacred the villagers, and its impact led to most of the other Arab villagers fleeing as well. Something similar happened in western UP, these communities were linked with the Muslims of Haryana and North Rajasthan through marriage and other kinship ties. My family were like that, with relatives in both west UP and Haryana. Once the heard the stories of killings, abductions and rape, they fled. Ironically, they were then victims of exactly the same violence, as the trains were attacked by Sikh Jathedars and Pataila State troopers.

If you read Zamindars book, it gives a graphic description of the condition of Delhi Muslims, who were kept in camps in the Red Fort and Humayun's masoleum, before being shiped to Pakistan. Ali Ahmed's book Twilight on Delhi is considered a masterpiece, as it describes Delhi Muslim society in 1943, literally 4 years before its total destruction by partition. Darlymple has a moving chapter on the Delhiwalas of Karachi, and notedly campares them to Palestinians.

In light of the general ignorance pervailing in Pakistan, I think we need a refugee monument in Islamabad. The Jews have one and so do the Armenians.

Lots of innocent people gave there lives so Messrs Zardari and Sharif could loot the country.

38

Re: Whats Going On In Karachi

Khan15

The overwhelming number of migrants that came to Pakistan were from Punjab and neighboring regions. A total of 5.5 million refugees came to Pakistan of which only 1.5 million settled in Sindh and the rest in Punjab. Also notable is that while migration from Punjab and Bengal finished in few months time, it continued for years from UP to Karachi, uptill 1955 when Pakistan-India strictly enforced visa requirements. It continued because of qouta system that Liaqat Ali Khan established for migrants and allocation of left over properties of hindus to refugees. It was a two way deal, migrants helped Pakistan and Pakistan helped them by providing oppurtunities that could not get in India.

39

I don't deny that at least 80% of the refugees came from Punjab. My point was that the core of the present Muhajir population is descended from communities that were expelled from India between 1948 and 49. So they were refugees AND NOT migrants.

There an additional element to the Punjab refugees. East Punjab consisted of two division, the Jallandhar division and the Ambala division, plus a small part of the Lahore division (Khem Karan Patwar circle, Amritsar and Gurdaspur district). Jalandhar was ethnically Punjabi, but Ambala was mixed. The population in and and around Ambala (the present Mohali and Chandigarh) was Punjabi, mainly Arain, but further east the population spoke dialects of Hindi. The Muslims from these areas, such as Gurgaon and Panipat are also Urdu-speaking. So many of so-called Punjabi refugees are actualy Urdu-speaking.

I accept that the relationship between the refugees and Pakistan was mutually benficial.

To sum, all I want to do is to dispel the image that the Urdu-speakers were all berozgar 22 year old graduates, who came in for economic purposes, put in fake claim forms, and occupied evacuee Hindu property.

40

And how conviently you forget the party which you support, which has actually done much worse, considering they were sitting with both of the afore mentioned gentlemen in their respective terms and went parsecs beyond just looting and corruption; killed and terrorized thousands. If Zardari is looting the country then why doesnt your party sit in the opposition right now?