Re: What's going on in Canada?
people disliking this. just deplorable
I will have my dislike button ready for a Royal occasion
Re: What's going on in Canada?
I will have my dislike button ready for a Royal occasion
oh,,,, i see. haha
Re: What's going on in Canada?
Is it not possible to have a female officer cross check the lady with her ID and once it's clear it is her, then allow her to go for the oath ceremony in naqab? No security risks. Both sides happy.
But again.. the point is.. why? Like khattichic pointed out, if the law of the land where u live/earn a living/reap benefits from asks u to show ur face at an official ceremony where u will be sworn in as a citizen of that land... i'm sure Muslims can make a concession there.
Yasir Qadhi makes the same case as khattichic said - either live here and obey the law, or if it goes against your principles and deen, move to a different country.
But all that aside, coming to basics of Islam... there is nothing wrong with a woman showing her face for official purposes. Islam ALLOWS the woman to show her face for ease and common sense; there is no sin on her, no judgement, she will not be a better Muslim. This is is the same case of ppl in extreme illness or pregnancy who insist on fasting against their health when it's not necessary, Allah gave us clear rules and many ways to ease some burdens. Islam is very simple - it's not a mod-hipster movement nor is it the severely ascetic life. I think the pertinent saying is, "Darmiyaan ka raasta, Rehmaan ka rasta"
Re: What’s going on in Canada?
tried my best but i did not understand a single word in this thread except to admit that these are beautiful women mashallah…so good selection LP!
Re: What's going on in Canada?
Naqab is a big deal for women who believe it to be compulsory. The state of ihram is an exceptional state which cannot be used to belittle the importance of naqab for that womam in this stance. My example was to point out the state of ihram being exceptional.
But you can't use islam for your purposes when the Prophet Muhammad pbuh himself said the women can show face. Use your own personal ski mask philia reasons, but then people like you unnecessarily drag in islam for this, FGM, honor killings etc. and all muslims pay the price for the "intolerance".
Re: What’s going on in Canada?
100 koras for you ! 
Re: What’s going on in Canada?
Ya I echo PD here so far I havent understood what is exactly the problem, why is it a issue now and where are we going from here?
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And please dont be offensive to fellow posters!! Thanks :k:
Re: What's going on in Canada?
Ya I echo PD
Why? Are you both standing in a valley surrounded by mountains?
Re: What's going on in Canada?
But all that aside, coming to basics of Islam... there is nothing wrong with a woman showing her face for official purposes. Islam ALLOWS the woman to show her face for ease and common sense; there is no sin on her, no judgement, she will not be a better Muslim. This is is the same case of ppl in extreme illness or pregnancy who insist on fasting against their health when it's not necessary, Allah gave us clear rules and many ways to ease some burdens. Islam is very simple - it's not a mod-hipster movement nor is it the severely ascetic life. I think the pertinent saying is, "Darmiyaan ka raasta, Rehmaan ka rasta"
You make an interesting point. Allah's rahmat is in plurality of the opinion. In this case, having the choice between wearing a niqab and not wearing a niqab is a rahmat. Since there is ikhtilaaf among ulema on this matter, the laymen can choose. For the group that thinks taking off niqab is burdensome, don't. For the group that thinks wearing niqab is burdensome, don't. In either case, don't claim there is only one valid argument here and claim the other to be unislamic.
That said, about obeying the laws of the land. The constitution guarantees these protections for the plaintiff. When she challenges it in the court, she is obeying the law of the lands. We may not agree with the way she practices it, but it doesnt mean she should just capitulate and leave. Aren't these countries based on freedom of religion and justice and is it not her right ( or even duty ) as a resident of Canada to fight an unjust law?
Re: What’s going on in Canada?
No we both have installed the boosters and thus now read each other’s signals on right frequency 
Re: What’s going on in Canada?
This is the second time you’re accusing me in this thread. Well, the first was an insinuation , the second was a clear accusation.
As we have crossed the boundaries of being civil to each other in this discussion while having a difference of opinion, I shall take my leave.
About the naqab or leaving the country if you don’t like policies is concerned, there is nothing more that I can add to the discussion except quote what OYMWA said.
Re: What's going on in Canada?
Hopefully you are not lying due to saudi love or "islamic brotherhood" etc. There are many reports of women getting arrested even with hijab not so long ago in the news.
That crosses the line a bit their bud. Just because someone doesn't have the "decency" to agree with your third hand stereotypes, you don't go and call them a liar. Funny how someone who lives there saying that doesn't lead you to believe that perhaps the reports were fabricated...
Re: What’s going on in Canada?
The Conservative party is not overtly anti-Muslim, as that would be illegal. But they do play the politics of fear and position the average Muslim as a fifth columnist. This, with the aid of uncle Toms like Tarek Fatah.
The real issue is Bill C-51, imho. It’s meant to be counter-terror legislation, but it’s impact as far greater than that. And the Judiciary has oddly enough let it slide. In theory, it allows for the stripping of citizenship of first-generation Canadians. It is being used to actively deport those who have won citizenship and are involved in petty crimes. The only party who was against it was the NDP. We’ll see how this plays out.
I don’t think this is specifically anti-Muslim. It’s just a means of the government to strip away rights from citizens they, for whatever reason, don’t want anymore. It’s just another way to give privilege to what Prime Minister Harper calls “Old Stock” Canadians.
Re: What's going on in Canada?
My point, which I stand by, is that Non Muslims who live in the Middle East or other Muslim countries are expected to live and abide by the law of the land, then shouldn't the same be expected of Muslims living in the West/Non Muslim counties?
That's a bit of an overstatement. Whenever Muslims try to enforce laws against Westerners, and the Westerners do not agree with them, there is almost always a media outcry and a diplomatic effort to subvert the application of the law. There is a sense that those laws should not apply to Westerners. Be it for drug offenses, blasphemy, etc. The "when in rome" argument doesn't seem to apply to "romans" abroad.
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No one is saying you can't do niqab...what's being said is during an official swearing in ceremony where your identity must be verified by the person officiating, your face cannot be covered. Now if that 10 minute ceremony takes place in a public environment that is a mixed environment, I don't see how this is an affront to the Muslim religion.
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The courts have ruled that unconstitutional, aside from any religious sentiment. The conservative party of canada has deemed it a "barbaric" religious practice. Do you see the difference?
Re: What's going on in Canada?
That crosses the line a bit their bud. Just because someone doesn't have the "decency" to agree with your third hand stereotypes, you don't go and call them a liar. Funny how someone who lives there saying that doesn't lead you to believe that perhaps the reports were fabricated...
Sorry for being blunt, but I have met many characters whose character leaves a lot to be desired while they wear islam on their sleeves. I had good reason to doubt him/her since just couple of months ago gulf women were arrested for driving in saudia. There is also the religious establishment that doesn't want to go with any reforms like when the mecca seige happened in the late seventies.
Re: What's going on in Canada?
That's a bit of an overstatement. Whenever Muslims try to enforce laws against Westerners, and the Westerners do not agree with them, there is almost always a media outcry and a diplomatic effort to subvert the application of the law. There is a sense that those laws should not apply to Westerners. Be it for drug offenses, blasphemy, etc. The "when in rome" argument doesn't seem to apply to "romans" abroad.
The courts have ruled that unconstitutional, aside from any religious sentiment. The conservative party of canada has deemed it a "barbaric" religious practice. Do you see the difference?
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Have beheadings, hand choppings, polygamy, apostasy deaths stopped because of it? It is business as usual.
Re: What’s going on in Canada?
Niqab was not required in the 70’s and 80’s either. Neither my mother or my sister wore niqab…ever. did not live in a compound but city center and I don’t recall any ladies of our family friends doing the niqab either.
This was in Riyadh
so maybe they went uber right winger between the 80s and 90s and are now taking a chill pill again 
Re: What's going on in Canada?
Niqab was not required in the 70's and 80's either. Neither my mother or my sister wore niqab...ever. did not live in a compound but city center and I don't recall any ladies of our family friends doing the niqab either.
This was in Riyadh
so maybe they went uber right winger between the 80s and 90s and are now taking a chill pill again :D
This is what is called a business cycle. We are at the trough or peak depending on your POV re dress codes.
Re: What's going on in Canada?
In the state of ihram even marital relation is forbidden.
in the state of ihram certain things that are allowed are forbidden
but i don't know of things that are forbidden to become allowed
Re: What's going on in Canada?
You make an interesting point. Allah's rahmat is in plurality of the opinion. In this case, having the choice between wearing a niqab and not wearing a niqab is a rahmat. Since there is ikhtilaaf among ulema on this matter, the laymen can choose. For the group that thinks taking off niqab is burdensome, don't. For the group that thinks wearing niqab is burdensome, don't. In either case, don't claim there is only one valid argument here and claim the other to be unislamic.
That said, about obeying the laws of the land. The constitution guarantees these protections for the plaintiff. When she challenges it in the court, she is obeying the law of the lands. We may not agree with the way she practices it, but it doesnt mean she should just capitulate and leave. Aren't these countries based on freedom of religion and justice and is it not her right ( or even duty ) as a resident of Canada to fight an unjust law?
My argument would be, why choose a path which is not even compulsory/desired in Islam to bring bad name to your religion in a country that understands and appreciates very little about your religion? Surely, Muslim for sake of their religion, can make a fair and flexible choice. Wearing Niqaab in Western country attracts far more attention (the irony!). It risks your own safety and raises misconceptions about your religion that encourages none of these practices. So what should you do? It's some food for thought.
I completely understand the reasons why some women choose to wear niqaab in certain countries - it saves them from predatory eyes, harassment, identification for revenge attacks and stalking purposes. Until there's no law in place to protect women and serve as deterrence, women will choose their own measures for security and safety. But really, what do you achieve by wearing Niqaab in Western countries where people don't even have the time to look at you unless you are intentionally dressed to attract attention (any sort!) - attires like micro mini or and niqaab would fall in that category.