Re: What Islamic Ummah?
and that is the need, to drop ‘extremist support’ instead of dropping religion altogether.
Re: What Islamic Ummah?
Okay I dont mean to offend people when I say they are confused but from your post also it seems you were confused when you wrote that.
You said people & systems are not the same thing. Countries are run by systems not people. Do you mean to say that those systems to run the countries are made by some species different than people to be followed by some species other than humans???
Then you went on to say that we, the humans make any system work, no matter good or bad… So… first part of your post says that countries are run by systems, not people (humans) & second part says it is the people who make any system work. So my second question to you will be: “If you are willing to try any human made imperfect system, why not try a system made by God?” Please do not forget that the current islamic system followed almost everywhere is the politicized human-made version of Islam & not the one which should be implemented. Once again, I am not referring to shariah system because even shariah law is not islamic but cultural law.
And I would like to add that all the man-made systems to run the world’s countries ncluding the politicized Islamic man-made version are carefully designed to encourage moral corruption to become a part of human life… first habits and then slowly a personality defect.
Re: What Islamic Ummah?
Can you elaborate on what you think is the true Islamic system, how would the system you propose deal with, gays, Lesbians, extra marital sex, if a girl wants to wear a bikini or if a couple wants to be common law, polygamy, child marriages, parents telling girls who to marry, family laws, will divorces involve splitting of property, alimony etc? When majority of officials are dishonest and corrupt including the very powerful army and police ; who will you hire to implement the system?
Re: What Islamic Ummah?
Extremists have a choke hold on the faith and it no more is the faith it ought to be. The identity of a muslim used to be honesty, integrity kindness, love and generosity. The faith was respected now it is hated. I dont think in our lifetime we will get our respect back.
Re: What Islamic Ummah?
Bobby, who will implement the system? People will implement the system on themselves (not on others) with their own will (not by force). The purification which is required cannot come through any system different than Islam and by anyone having to implement it by force. People need to make a choice. They have to decide they want to sink further below the dirt they are already in or they want to cleanse themselves necause they are tired of impurity & filth surrounding them. This thought has to come from within. I hugely respect Mr. Ghamidi for his very wise views on this. He is so wise with unmatched depths of knowledge in his credit. I dont understand most od him because my Urdu is not so advanced and secondly I consider myself still to be the base level student of Islam so cannot understand him all but he has very solid understanding on all the subjects you mentioned above.
Some of the things you mentioned are simple like parents telling girls who to marry, divorces and splitting of money, code of dress, extra marital affairs… all of this can be understood by listening to translation of Quran. Cannot mrntion the exact names & verses of surahs but remember listening to the translation which well explained how to deal with those issues & with just a little bit of pondering, you can understand the wisdom why those rulings.
About the more complicated issues like homosexuality, I guess a scholar as supperior as Ghamidi sb should be consulted. He is exceotional in his knowledge.
I can only say that Islamic guidance is the best compared with any system. I say this based on some strange ways how I got answers to many of the questions which used to bother me just by listening to the translation. But one has to be very honest and listen with humility. Becauee to shallow prudes with hate, negitivity in their hearts, positive good advice and guidence appears to be stupid and they just laugh and insult. So they wont agree or understand… only with humility and true desire to discover the truth.
Edit: The government’s job is to only remain purified/ Islamic themselves & educate the people and create awareness abour correct islamic teachings. Adopting the international politicized version of islam and imposing on the locals is unislamic and cruel.
Re: What Islamic Ummah?
Greedy corrupt muslims who became a part of the evil system are also to be blamed. The bexame a part because they were promised worldly benefits (kindoms, wealth, status, luxury) if they did. Those things are not bad if earned through right means.
Re: What Islamic Ummah?
West got more conscience after the empowerment of females, Women are more conscientious and caring. I dont think we will see improvements in society until women are empowered.
Re: What Islamic Ummah?
Jews basically copies Zoroastrian religious ideas. All such religions are limited to the middle east whereas humanity exits more than 50,000 years in the New World and Australasia - not a single prophet sent to there. Written religious history is only 5000 years old and as per MTJ Adam came to the world about 10,000 years ago. Human fossils are at least 400,000 years old. This pretty much reveals the truth.
Re: What Islamic Ummah?
Bobby, why do you think that Islam prohibits women empowerment and why do you believe that under a government which takes guidence from Quran, the chances of women enpowerment will lower even more?
Comparing west with Pakistan is not a good idea because majority people (immigrants) were educated & civilized before the women were empowered. Whereas here, it is a complete jungle. Majority prople have no education, no financial stability & above all no moral values. The kids learn their moral values from films, soap operas and tv sitcoms, not from quran because people are programmed to believe that Islam is not more than obedience to cruelty, permission to men for all the good and bad things they want to do, silence anyone who questions or speaks out against cruelty. People are programmed that way and true awareness is intentionally discouraged because if people were empowered with true awareness of Islam then the evil forms of government fall in no time.
No first and the foremost need is to educate people, teach them basic morals and ethics on how civilized humans behave and once everyone or atleast majority starts to behave like normal humans only then will naturally come the stage of women empowerment. When women / parents are clueless about what morals to teach to their kids or girls, hoe do think women empowerment will help the society? You posted link to an article few days ago ehich left quite a bad taste in mouth. If you believe that is women empowerment and that is what pakistan needs then you are wrong.
One very important thing is that when we used to visit Pakistan when I was a kid, I remember seeing my female cousins who were free to choose how they wanted to dress up, what hobbies or peofession or areas of study they want to pick. That was the trend in most households. People educated their girsl and trusted them because generally people had better morals, were civilized, trusted the women of their households. Unfortunately as the ignorance rises due to spread of political Islam imposed upon people, their minds have been programmed to believe that Islam is just another name of stripping women and generally all the prople off their rights given by God.
So as I said in my first post in this thread that more than anything, people of Pakistan need education and awareness of actual Islam & slowly everything will starighten out eventually.
Re: What Islamic Ummah?
I dont think Islam prohibits woman empowerment but there are fanatics who have hijacked the religion and are using Islam to validate their sick feudal values. Hadrat Ayesha (RA) Hadrat Khadija (RA) were very empowered ladies. I dont think that these fascists are going to listen to moderate and modern thoughts about gender equality. That skewed version of faith serves their hedonistic desires well. Under gender equality and male will have to prove himself worthy of a gifted lady, now he just tells her that god tells you to obey me.
Re: What Islamic Ummah?
In Pakistan ,for every problem they have a single answer …Allah will do it right.. where people are led to believe that some imaginary entity Allah will magically come and help them rid of their problems such people will always be in problem until they take matters into their hands and find solution towards employment and environmental protection.
The new agreement with China will allow china to dump huge amounts of toxic sludge in the rivers poisoning the people and the food and the water.The agreement will give the elite even more money and the poor poor health.
Until that time there will be Allah .
A single man in China built a 9.6 km long irrigation canal through very difficult terrain.Took him 30 years.
Incredible dedication: Chinese man builds 9,400m water canal on cliff face
There is a video on youtube showing this amazing feat.
In Pakistan you a muslim man would pray and pray and for something ,someone to do something for 30 years and have nothing to show for it at the end.
Re: What Islamic Ummah?
Are you another Hindu here? Like me and Saeed? 
Re: What Islamic Ummah?
Don’t worry you are a communist err surkha..
Re: What Islamic Ummah?
I am not a surkha by any means!
Re: What Islamic Ummah?
You must be since you hate jamaat.
Re: What Islamic Ummah?
Your question is Irrelevant.
The point is there no initiative or get up and go.
No leadership or great director.
No inspiration.
The people are allies to various clans and part of assorted tribalism and vote the same set of thieves into office repeatedly.
Everything is ‘Inshallah’.
Re: What Islamic Ummah?
those who are taliban-type and promote talibanism are easy to identify and to be dealt with.
The dangerous ones are those who will denounce Taliban and fundamentalism based on talibans’ hardcore version of islam but at the very same time will also hate the modern constitutional framework and associated democratic system, political institutions, and courts. They will not accept any of this institutional, constitutional and political framework as it is “un-islamic” by their definition even though this secular system allows and protects everyone to practice islam or any religion in his or her private life fully.
They want “Islamic system” and “Islamic sharia based principles” to be implemented both in the personal capacity and at the state level. Since they have nothing solid to debate and they have no answers for grounded questions as to which Islamic version shd be implemented so that everyone is satisfied (shia, sunni, baralvi, hanfi, Deobandi, Ahal hadees etc), they will have vague explanations and ultimately will get angry and will use foul language.
when you will point out that no such Islamic state has ever existed and we all we had were brutal Muslim kingdoms, they will attribute the failure of such Islamic model to people’s inability to comprehend “true islam”.
They will make high-level blanket statements such as “Islam is the only solution for everyone including non muslims on this planet but to get its true blessings everyone needs to understand true islam first”. When pressed hard as to what is “true islam” at the state level and why enforce its superiority on non-Muslims, they will start abusing you or may label you as “mushrak” or atheist so that the discussion can get emotional.
watch out and be careful of such folks. they are as fundamentalists as taliban but they have masked themselves. Jazak Allah and may Almighty bring peace to our lives
Re: What Islamic Ummah?
One question to everyone…if secular system is that bad, why in the world Indian muslim scholars and indian muslims are always favoring secular system? why do they support secular constitution? are we saying that indian muslims are less muslims than us?
hai koi jawab…
Re: What Islamic Ummah?
Quran goes into the details of certain aspects of our lives - but surprisingly it does not mention the way Muslim will be ruled and the system of successions of the rulers.
As a result animosity and war started in the very beginning of Islams resulting in the tragedy of Usman’s murder by Muslims themselves.
Re: What Islamic Ummah?
Yes it is true - the most vocal among them is the Jamiat-e-ulmea Islam Hind representing the deobandi sect in India.