this is a good article articulating that why “Muslim ummah” concept is completely wrong and that Pakistanis need to come out of it. we are Muslims only because we were born into a Muslim family and it does not make us a “Muslim nation” as we like to believe. Nations cannot be Muslim or Hindus or Chinese or Christian as we human beings do not choose our birth family.
And therefore our romantic notion that we as a “Muslim nation” need to partner with other “muslim nations” and vice versa is completely wrong. if strategically applicable, a hindu could be our ally too and a muslim country could be our enemy. why cant we accept israel when egypt and Jordan accept israel? it is about time we shd take the word
it is about time we shd take the word islamic out from Pakistan name. we are not the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. we are the Republic of Pakistan with different religions living there. About time we declare our Constitution secular and stay away from islam at the governmental level. why cant we accept israel when egypt and Jordan accept israel?
It’s a good article for people who think rationally. Sadly, the religious lot ignore the realities of life and choose to believe that it’s not the concept of “Muslim Ummah” that is flawed just that people aren’t following the “right Islam” (whatever that is). They choose to believe the lie that all the woes of this world will end once everyone starts following their version of Islam.
Secularizing the country would be acceptance of the fact that Islam’s teachings on governance are flawed. No muslim will stand for that because they believe “Islam is the one true religion and it’s perfect”.
Doubting the concept of “Muslim ummah”, Islam in government or any other religious concept is akin to doubting religion itself. People are scared of doubting religion. They have good reason to be scared. Most muslims have been brainwashed, since childhood, into believing that they’ll be sentenced to eternal hell fire if they question allah’s existence or any of is commandments.
*“they choose to believe that it’s not the concept of “Muslim Ummah” that is flawed just that people aren’t following the “right Islam” (whatever that is). They choose to believe the lie that all the woes of this world will end once everyone starts following their version of Islam”
I dont know if this is a lie or not..maybe it is not a lie but the fact of the matter is that we dont have one single successful “Islamic” model for last 1500 years, which was acceptable to everyone and which finished all the problems. even 3 of 4 amirs (umar, usman and ali) were murdered and there was no peaceful transition. hazrat aisaha fought against hazrat ali and thousands of sahaba died in the war of jamal.
so if some thing has never happened, what does it mean? is it a mirage? may be but no one can talk about it
i am a muslim and follow all Muslim rituals to best of my ability but i believe in secularism because i care about other religions and i don’t see one religion better than other. i want the state constitution to be non-religious. does that mean I am not a Muslim?
a fellow poster has already wished me a tortured death…and most likely he is a doctor. this is what has happened to the educated elite of Pak. forget general masses. they will burn you.
But Pakistan has allied with US and it was the US who sent the seventh fleet in 71 to save the nation. Also general Zia had massacred Palestinians and by default helping Israel. USA gives billions of dollars in aid.
No Israeli has a harmed a Pakistani yet they are all obsessed with hating Israel.
Its seems to be for the Dumb Palestininans who keeping firing rockets pointlessly at them and getting a sound beating every time.Wasting $100 billion in the process.
Even a fish is smarter and wont hit the electric fence after the 5th time.
Most muslims are very jealous of jews because they are very successful while muslims are mired in never ending corruption and never progress being stuck in some kind of weird medieval caliphate mindset.
They keep voting in crooks in the mistaken belief that corruption will benefit them too somehow but never does since giving bribes is a huge tax on the majority.
Most have a madrassa education and want to go on jihad as per the cleric’s ‘education’.
i agree … one correction though, it is not only madrasa-educated folks. The educated elite in Pakistan is also toxic minded thx to munafiq general Zia’s hatred-filled syllabus which polluted the whole generation of Pakistan. that generation is now in mid 40-50s and is running Pakistan
didn’t you notice, a doctor above wished me to die in pain and torture. didn’t you notice how lawyers used to shower Salman Taseer’s murderer Mumtaz Qadri with flowers and used to kiss him on his cheek congratulating him for killing Salman Taseer? didn’t you notice how educated doctors in Multan refuse to attend a Christian janitor as it would have ruined their Roza and let him die in the mean process?
Unfortunately, Pakistan is an ideological mess since 1977 with no direction and is unfit to merge with forward-looking nations of the 21st century who believe in harmony, secularism, religious tolerance. what a slap on Pakistani masses’ faces when Saudi Arabia will accept israel soon. where will we stand then?
To me, you or anyone claiming to be a muslim is a muslim (even Ahmedis). I guess, a lot of muslims don’t understand that religion is a personal thing (it seems like you do). Bringing a religion into government gives followers of that religion power over rest of the population. Secular government seems to be the only the only solution.
It’s sad, the state of our educated elite. We are becoming increasingly intolerant by the day. Wouldn’t it be nice to get some tea and exchange ideas with someone who has different views without the fear of losing your life.
Basic social teachings of Islam are first and foremost speaking the truth, honesty & fairness in business dealings, tolerance, acceptance, introspection, patience, kindness… not just towards other muslims but towards all the mankind.
When people will be educated to focus on their own flaws and purification of oneself from flaws. Most focus on purification of one’s own body, mind, heart and soul and less on others’ weaknesses, the whole society will slowly reach a state of purification. I dont know of many scholars who focus on educating people those values anymore which in reality are the soul of Islam. If people open Quran, understand it with open, unbiased minds & honesty to one’s self, they will naturally adopt those qualities.
People need to be taught the teachings sent down in the book. Not teachibgs of sponsored Islam and the extremism taught by the clerics hired by world’s owners for political gains.
People need to make an effort. Read and interpret correctly. They will be surprised to know that Quran talks about more than forbidden sex, women covering up, 4 marriages for men, wives obedience & tormenting ‘azaab’ for people who dont practice those 4-5 things they believe Islam is. Islam much more than those few things all Pakistanies believe it is about. The mindsets are so limited.
Secularism is not the solution. Correct teaching, unbiased, unchanged interpretation of the verses is.
It’s a shame that people think secularism can purify the society while the book cant. It has all the wisdom humankind needs to live in peace. All people need is to look and search for their answers in the book. While Pakistanis look towards all the people & in all the places in the world, amazingly inside the Quran are all the answers. They only need to interpret correctly.
if you think islam can do this for you, more power to you. please follow oIslam and the book more and more and become a better human being…no problem whatsoever with that concept. at a personal level, you can do whatever you want to
but why to force your govt to make a constitution which shd be Islamic? why have a condition that your PM and President needs to be Muslim? why have sharia courts? why keep on harping that we need to be islamic republic of Pakistan? why keep on thinking and promoting that a society can only get better when we follow islam?
because remember there are millions of sikhs, Hindus, Christians also living in your country and who also adore the teachings of their religion and their religions are also teaching them to follow the truth, honesty & fairness in business dealings, tolerance, acceptance, introspection, patience, kindness towards all the mankind.. what if they start demanding that this shd be the Christian Republic of Pakistan? can you put yourself in their shoes for one second and think about it?
it is unbelievable that very same Pakistani Muslims who are always advocating for an Islamic republic of Pakistan, who are against any form of secularism and consider secularism an evil, and who believe that we need to have Islam as our country’s constitutional backbone become the biggest supporter of secularism when they drag their sorry asses to western countries. these shameless people then demand all religious liberties on the pretext of secularism. hey how about if Denmark becomes the Christian Republic of Denmark, and the state and people only give you the level of protection which their religion allows them towards Muslims?
have some respect guys. if you hate secularism so much, please do not more to the west
Exactly, so Islamization / Secularization is just a smoke-screen IMHO, the real issues are somewhere else but a pro-secular will blame Isalmist and pro-Islam(ic/ist) will blame secular(ists) while the real issues are staring at us.
Islam doesn’t have a monopoly over ideas like truth, honesty, fairness, tolerance, acceptance, introspection, patience, kindness, etc. A secular constitution can contain these ideas without religion. A government can work for the welfare of its citizens without religion.
I have no objection to an individual using their religion as an inspiration, a guiding tool for themselves. However, I have a strong objection to religions involvement at state level. Examples being, Pakistan’s draconian blasphemy laws, ban on alcohol and other drugs, laws on zina, the condition that Prime Minister and President be muslims.
by asking such irrelevant questions, one tries to confuse the discussion. if we go by your logic, USA and Europe shd not have declared their states secular states hundred of years ago and shd have tried to solve slavery and black issues first…as a matter of fact, those states still have many social issues. so what does it mean? Shd they leave secularism?
you need to set the basic right. you need to know what is the fabric of your society and constitution? once you set it, you start moving to the next level
i refuse to answer such questions which are deliberately and smartly posed to derail the discussion. thx