Its sad indeed that the Ahlul Bayt lovers are rejected as narrators but zalims who killed Imam Hussain are accepted.
I wish people will open their hearts and try to start looking at things objectively.
Peace righteous
Is this supposed to be an objective argument? Who are the lovers of Ahl-ul-Bayt? What is the criterion of being a lover of Ahl-ul-Bayt? Prove it. Then show objective evidence that one party are lovers of Ahl-ul-Bayt and not zalims then you may have some sense of a discussion here. In fact don't do anything because in order for you to do so you will have to classify and brand the early Muslims in accordance to how you qualify them ...
As if we have the right to do so ... that we don't ... 'cos we aught to love all of them ... the ahl-ul-bayt.
That is a main problem with Ilm e Rajal of Ahl-e-sunnat.
They are never interested in the matn unless it highlights the greatness of Ahlul Bayt, then they start questioning the matn.
There are countless ahadith in the Sahihs with extremely questionable matn, which at times is contradictory to common sense and other times with Quran as well. But they are acceptable. But even if a hadith is mutwatir with thiqa narrators, the matn becomes questionable if it exposes the reality of Banu Ummayah (Specially Mauwiya) or the greatness of Ali.
Its sad indeed that the Ahlul Bayt lovers are rejected as narrators but zalims who killed Imam Hussain are accepted.
I wish people will open their hearts and try to start looking at things objectively.
Alas, I dont believe they will!
i thinks ur statements are purely based on emtotions and u have restricted the hadiths subject to ahle bayt and banu Ummayah. the main point here is hadith primarily deals with the all aspects of deen and to the great extent intrepretation of quran.
but the problem wid the shia muhaddis is that their main focus is fazeelat of ahle bait and imamat. go to ne shia website and see it urself.
in bukhari and muslim u will find very small no of ahadith relating to the topics i meentioned above. the main focus of ahadith is ibadaat, maamalaat and aqaaids. and there are so many narrators (sahabis) that are not very known to layman ppl like us and not from first 3 caliphs, ashara mubashara , ashabe badar. it clearly shows that the there are so many sahabas that have contributed in narrating the hadiths of prophet. unlike the shia books where most of the hadiths are narrated by 12 imams.
i have heard that there are many hadiths in usool e kafi that have been narrated by hazrat jafer sadiq through hazrat ali. it is fact that hazrat jafer never met hazrat ali so how can he narrate hadith through hazrat ali. likewise i have seen a hadith narrated by hazrat baqar through hazrat ali. since the chain of narrations is broken thats why it is not acceptable.
for ur kind information many sunni muhaddisin have objected ahadiths narrated by bukhari and sahih muslim as zaeef or hasan(inspite of the fact that sahihain are considered the most authentic books of hadiths ). those ahadiths relating to varios topics of ibadaat and maamalaat and aqaaid. we need to appreciate this fact bukhari and muslims are not divine and written by human being thoug they were pious and learned scholars. so ther will be margin of error despite the fact they have set a very strict standards for hadiths selection in their books. so it is purely misconception that sunni muhaddis only object the hadiths mentioned in the shia books.
there are many muhadissin who worked on principles of compiling ahadith. **few noatables includes hafiz waal ib n hajr usqalani, hafiz ibn ul qayyam , hafiz ibn salah. **they burned the midnite oil to differetiate muzoo hadiths, zaeef hadith , hasan, mursaal, muaalal. and they were not focusing on ahadiths of ahle bait and imamaat.
u can gauge the depths of their work by this fact that a muhaddis has mentioned 250 types of zaeef hadiths alongwith the reasons for creating each category. few types of zaeef hadithds (subject to the conditions) are acceptable and rest are not.
like wise there have been atleast 40 type muaalal hadiths. each and every hadiths of saha sitta have been dicussed. every every narraotor of the riwayyat have been discussed and documented.
there is a book of Dr. Khalid alvi named "Asool e hadith" if u read the book u will realize how ppl of earlier centuries have taken the pain to differntiate among sahih hadiths, zaeef, hasan and muzoo hadiths.
i have seen ppl here in this particular thread just copy pasting hadiths from different books without having awareness of the caveat attached wid that hadiths. this is not a child play to share hadith written in a particular book without having awreness of the comments of the writer and other muhaddis.
so far i havent seen a single hadith in the sunni hadiths in which they try to condemn or abuse hazrat ali, hazrat hasan and hussain of hazrat fatima . but look at shia scholars (most of them ) consider condemning sahaba as tenet of deen. even they cross limits of civilty and use such a disguting langauage that no decent person tolerate. however, there are also moderate shia scholars.
just go and watch videos of **(Late) allama fazil hussain alvi . **that person was so sick u wud realise after seeing those videos.
as far as hazrat muaavia is concerned he is sahabi and a great administrator and army leader. further he was close relative of prophet. his brother yazid bin suffiain was also a great leader and took part in the victory of syria.
so the point is in addition to hazrat ali family there thousands of ppl who have worked for the propogation of islam and we cant ignore their contribution.
even in this thread some shia fellow shared the quote of hazrat ali in which he said that first 3 caliphs were more successful than me coz their companion were better than mine.
now who were the companion of first three caliphs ................ they were ashra mubashra, ashabe badar , mohajirin and ansaar.
interestingly most of the shia scholars instead of condemning hazrat ali's companions (who always tried to defy him) condemn sahaba, who hazrat ali have himself praised.
That is a main problem with Ilm e Rajal of Ahl-e-sunnat.
They are never interested in the matn unless it highlights the greatness of Ahlul Bayt, then they start questioning the matn.
There are countless ahadith in the Sahihs with extremely questionable matn, which at times is contradictory to common sense and other times with Quran as well. But they are acceptable. But even if a hadith is mutwatir with thiqa narrators, the matn becomes questionable if it exposes the reality of Banu Ummayah (Specially Mauwiya) or the greatness of Ali.
Its sad indeed that the Ahlul Bayt lovers are rejected as narrators but zalims who killed Imam Hussain are accepted.
I wish people will open their hearts and try to start looking at things objectively.
Alas, I dont believe they will!
brother righteous – I hope that you had a great Eid.
It seems that either you are ignorant of hadith compilation or are deliberately trying to hoodwink the people concerning hadith. I think it is the former.
Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim are the most authentic hadith books– Even knowledgeable Shia scholars very grudgingly accept this fact.
Only Quran is infallible.
Collecting authentic hadith was a momentous effort – Yes Bukhari and Muslim do have some weak hadith – but these are extremely very, very small in number – in fact the weak ones can be counted on one hand.
Eminent Sunnis scholars have done enough critical scrutiny of all the hadith form day one (without needing any help from Shias).
Compare this to state of the Shia hadith.
The most famous of Shia hadith book is Al Kafi.
According to reports on completion of this momentous this book, the compiler, Mohammed Ibne Yakoob Kulayni, presented it (Al Kafi) to the 12th infallible Imam – He having gone through the whole book stated as follows:
"hadha kafin li-shi'atina" (This is sufficient for our Shi'ah)
Guess what? Some centuries later eminent Shia scholars having critically gone through al Kafi declared the 76% of the hadith therein is not Sahih!!!!!!!!
You see the big contradiction between the infallible Iman and the fallible scholars!!!!
Sunnis reject any hadith which contradicts the Quran.
Hz. Ibn Abbas (ra) and Hz. Aisha (ra) are few among from the Ahlel Bayt (raa) who have contributed a lot to narrations of hadith.
bro Ibn Sadique- thanks for your reply. Though unfortunately you have copied and pasted most of the stuff thats been answered here before like the sermon of Imam Ali (as) (search of the archives can verify this). You seem to save all this material for a later date, only to unleash it on somebody else who in return then waste their time again in answering it.
Anyway, are you sure this time that Al Qurba includes all the relatives of the Prophet (saww)?** my 2nd question is, who do you think includes Aal e Ibrahim (as) that you include in the salam/salawat?/**QUOTE]
[quote="Ibn_Sadique, post:2, topic:208019"]
All those followed the path of Hz. Ibrahim (as) are included in salaam/salawaat.
About the important point about Aal e Ibrahim (as), clarify just one little thing for me.** Are you saying that all those who followed the path of Hz. Ibrahim (as) are his AAL?** Thanks
Brother Ibn Sadique- may be you missed this:
"About the important point about Aal e Ibrahim (as), clarify just one little thing for me. Are you saying that all those who followed the path of Hz. Ibrahim (as) are his AAL? Thanks"
[quote="Pagluu, post:13, topic:208028"]
^** So according to you anybody who follows Ibrahim (as) is his AAL
Would you say this statement represents your view or would you like to amend it?/**QUOTE]
Salaams brother Pagluu – I hope that you had a very good Eid.
Sorry I didn’t back earlier – I think it was more appropriate to be ‘away’ from debating in the last few days of Ramadan.
You really thought that you had me in the wrong, didn’t you.
Let’s refer the Quran for this: And see who has the best claim to Hz. Ibrahim(as)
[Pickthal 3:68] Lo! those of mankind who have the best claim to Abraham are those who followed him, and this Prophet and those who believe (with him); and Allah is the Protecting Guardian of the believers.
See the commentary to the above ayah by Shia Scholar and he quite a hardcore!
Look for ayah 3:68
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 3:68]
*The nearest of men to Ibrahim were surely those who followed him and his religion. Nearness takes effect through faithful following, not because of relationship, **and that is why the son of Nuh has been condemned (Hud: 45, 46). **Ali ibna abi Talib has also said that the nearest to the Holy Prophet is he who obeys Allah, though he may not be related to him, and the enemy of the Holy Prophet is he who disobeys Allah, though he may be related to him. Imam Ali bin Husayn al Zayn al Abidin has said: "Paradise is for the pious, be he a slave; and hell is for the wicked, be he a Quraysh (relative of the Holy Prophet)." And that which was applicable to Ibrahim is applicable to the Holy Prophet and those who believe as the Holy Prophet believes. It must be noted that obedience to Allah is not possible unless one obeys the Holy Prophet, and those whom the Holy Prophet has designated to be obeyed, his beloved Ahl ul Bayt. Those who watched the Holy Prophet, fighting his enemies in the battles, from a safe distance, as if having no interest in the outcome of the war, so as to change sides at will and join the winners, or at least run away from the scene of conflict to save their lives and properties, can never be included among the "men nearest to the Holy Prophet"; as also those who opposed and killed his Ahlul Bayt. They are the worst hypocrites, his hidden enemies.*
Similarly there is a narration from the Prophet (saw):
After having conquere Makkah the Prophet (saw) turned to Medinah and said: "Those Ahlel Bayt of mine **think that they have the most right (to me) and it is not like this. Rather those who have the most right to me from amongst you are the pious, whoever they are and wherever they are.**" [Narrated by Ibn Abi Asim 2/689 and Al-Tabarani 20/121]
"The Prophet (saw) has shown that the true relationship to him is that of piety and religion and not of biological descent. Had the Prophet (saw) indeed set a dynasty of rulers from his offspring, this would have cast doubt to the Prophet's truthfulness and sincerity in conveying Allah's word and then the Prophet (saw) would have been like other kings who were after this Dunya (materialistic world) and founded kingdoms with dynasties from their offspring. Indeed, the Prophet (saw) even forbade his progeny from inheriting wealth from him!"
Salaams brother psyah I hope that you had a great Eid!!
Sorry, Aal does not mean offspring in Arabic language – the word for offspring/ progeny in Arabic is Zurriyat.
Ahlul Bayt – refers to people of the house.
Aal refers to larger members of man’s relatives – Parents, brothers/sisters, wives, children, Uncles, Aunts, Cousins, in-laws etc. etc. Meaning: - larger/extended family of a person.
You can see that Surah Aale Imran is always translated as Family of Imran and not as Progeny of Imran.
I am citing some ayahs to show that the word Zurriyat [thurriyyat] means offspring/progeny.
14:40 O my Lord! make me one who establishes regular Prayer, and also (raise such) among my offspring O our Lord! and accept Thou my Prayer.
Waithi ibtala ibraheema rabbuhu bikalimatin faatammahunna qala innee jaAAiluka lilnnasi imaman qala wamin thurriyyatee qala la yanalu AAahdee alththalimeena
2:124 And remember that Abraham was tried by his Lord with certain commands, which he fulfilled: He said: “I will make thee an Imam to the Nations.” He pleaded: “And also (Imams) from my offspring!” He answered: “But My Promise is not within the reach of evil-doers.”
Rabbana innee askantu min thurriyyatee biwadin ghayri thee zarAAin AAinda baytika almuharrami rabbana liyuqeemoo alssalata faijAAal afidatan mina alnnasi tahwee ilayhim waorzuqhum mina alththamarati laAAallahum yashkuroona
14:37 "O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring to dwell in a valley without cultivation, by Thy Sacred House; in order, O our Lord, that they may establish regular Prayer: so fill the hearts of some among men with love towards them, and feed them with fruits: so that they may give thanks.
I am sorry again I think you got it wrong here too. Aal has the meaning which I had stated earlier - it is not just the progeny of the Prophet (saw)!
أللهم صل على محمد وعلى آل محمد كما صليت على إبراهيم وعلى آل إبراهيم إنك حميد مجيد. أللهم بارك على محمد وعلى آل محمد كما باركت على إبراهيم وعلى آل إبراهيم إنك حميد مجيد
Allahumma Salli 3ala Muhammadin wa 3ala aali Muhammadin kamaa sallayta 3ala Ibrahim wa 3ala aali Ibrahim innaka 7ameedun majeed, wa baarik 3ala Muhammadin wa 3ala aali Muhammadin kamaa baarakta 3ala Ibrahim wa 3ala aali Ibrahim innaka 7ameedun majeed.
O Allah! Send blessings upon Muhammad and upon the family of Muhammad as You sent blessings upon Abraham and upon the family of Abraham; indeed, You are praiseworthy and glorious. O Allah! Bless Muhammad and the family of Muhammad as You blessed Abraham and the family of Abraham; indeed, You are praiseworthy and glorious.
Narrated Abu Sa’id Al-Khudri (RadiAllahu anhu); 'We said, “O Allah’s Apostle! This is (i.e. we know) the greeting to you; will you tell us how to send Salat on you?” He said,
"Say: 'Allahumma Salli 'ala Muhammadin 'abdika wa rasulika kama sal-laita 'ala Ibrahima wa barik 'ala Muhammadin wa all Muhammadin kama barakta ‘ala Ibrahima wa Ali Ibrahim.’ "
[Sahih al-Bukhari; Vol 8:#369]
Narrated Abu Humaid As-Sa’idi (radiAllahu anhu); The people asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! How shall we (ask Allah to) send blessings on you?” Allah’s Apostle (salAllahu alayhi wasalam) replied,
"Say: O Allah! Send Your Mercy on Muhammad and on his wives and on his offspring, as You sent Your Mercy on Abraham’s family; and send Your Blessings on Muhammad and on his offspring, as You sent Your Blessings on Abraham’s family, for You are the Most Praiseworthy, the Most Glorious.
“Allahumma Salli 'ala- Muhammadin wa azwajihi wa dhurriyyatihi kama sal-laita 'ala ali Ibrahim; wa barik 'ala Muhammadin wa azwajihi wa dhurriyyatihi kamabarakta 'ala ali Ibrahim innaka hamidun majid.”
[Sahih al-Bukhari; Vol 4:#588]
Abu Humaid As-Saidi (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Companions of the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said: "O Messenger of Allah! How should we supplicate for you?'' He (PBUH) replied, "Say: Allahumma salli ala Muhammadin wa ala azwajihi wa dhurriyyatihi, kama sallaita ala Ibrahima; wa barik ala Muhammadin wa ala azwajihi wa dhurriyyatihi, kama barakta ala Ibrahima, innaka Hamidum-Majid
(O Allah sent Your Salat (O Allah, exalt the mention of Muhammad and his wives and offspring as You exalted the mention of the family of Ibrahim, and bless Muhammad and the wives and the offspring of Muhammad as you blessed the family of Ibrahim. You are the Praised, the Glorious’.‘’ [Al-Bukhari and Muslim].
"Commentary: "Azwaj’’ is the plural of "Zauj’’ that is a pair. This is the reason that in Arabic it applies to both, masculine as well as feminine. Man is the Zauj of woman and woman is the Zauj of a man. In any case, here it means the Prophet’s wives who are eleven in number. Two of them had died during the lifetime of the Prophet (PBUH) and nine survived after him. Islam does not permit more than four wives to a Muslim but the Prophet (PBUH) was given the exclusive permission for numerous considerations which have been discussed by religious scholars at length.
This Hadith also refutes the opinion of those who do not include his pious wives in the category of his “Al’‘. The progeny of the Prophet (PBUH) includes his male and female children and their descendants. But after his death none except Fatimah (May Allah be pleased with her) and her children remained alive. In short, his "Al’’ includes his wives and progeny”.
This is also another very relevant proof that the Prophet (saw) took his blessed wives (raa) to be from his Ahlul Bayt (raa)!! In fact he has put his wives before his offspring!!
You can refer to more Salawaat/Duroods on following sites.
Muslim - Book 001, Number 0141: * Zirr reported: 'Ali observed: By Him Who split up the seed and created something living, the Apostle (may peace and blessings be upon him) gave me a promise that no one but a believer would love me, and **none but a hypocrite would nurse grudge against me*.
This is a hadith from one of the most authentic books of Hadith for Ahl-e-sunnat. I will leave my argument here to answer this point.
To your post (quoted above) I had posted the following - but have noticed that you have not responded to it - Care to do so.
brother ** righteous *– Have you ever met any Sunni who doesn’t love Hz. Ali (ra)??!! [of course not to the point where you want him to be loved]
He is among the righteous Khaleefs and the ten given the title Ashrah Mubashrah. There are thousands of narrations to confirm his exalted station.
Read the quotation below from Nahjul Balagha:
*With regard to me, two categories of people will be ruined, namely he who loves me too much and the love takes him away from rightfulness, and he who hates me too much and the hatred takes him away from rightfulness. The best man with regard to me is he who is on the middle course. So be with him and be with the great majority (of Muslims) because Allah's hand (of protection) is on keeping unity. You should beware of division because the one isolated from the group is (a prey) to Satan just as the one isolated from the flock of sheep is (a prey) to the wolf.
Beware; whoever calls to this course, kill him, even though he may be under this headband of mine. - *Part taken from Sermon 126 Nahj-ul-Balagha *
Please let me know who is this ‘great majority of muslims’ he is referring to – Surely not the 12ers – as they are not the ‘great majority of muslims’!
You may claim that he is referring to the 12ers as the great majority!!
If so, tell since when did 12ers ever become 'the great majority of Muslims' - they never have been so.
And where are you to place the Sunnis - 'the great majority of Muslims'?
Are they not in the equation?
Its great to see, after a long time, a thread on GS where there is positive air of discussion and that too on something very rarely discussed here, i.e. the science of the Quran Majeed.
Brother, Ibn Sadique, Quran uses, more often than not, plural words for singular. This verse says "our women" while it was only one lady, i.e., Fatimah (a.s.), who was brought by the Prophet (saww) for Mubahila with the Christians of Najran- yet the Prophet (saww) did fully comply with the divine command.
Brother *pagluu * Please can you just give us one example where Quran uses "plural words for singular"?
Please don't give us the example that Allah (swt) uses 'WE' for Himself in the Quran - It won't apply here. Will be a Good try though! :)
To all stupid sunnis and shias,,
the same old crap discussion. what difference it makes that who was ahl-e-bait and who was not. does it solve the problems of Pakistan like poverty, illiteracy, terrorism etc etc. all bull**** and non sense. just wastage of time. such futile discussions should be banned on this forum.
Brother Ibn Sadique- Happy Eid to you too. If you choose to believe that Aal means the Followers then that fine. The greatest gift of God is the freewill and you just like others are free to exercise it. We all will find the truth, ultimately.
Brother *pagluu * Please can you just give us one example where Quran uses "plural words for singular"?
Please don't give us the example that Allah (swt) uses 'WE' for Himself in the Quran - It won't apply here. Will be a Good try though! :)
Brother- since your question is related to Quran, I wish to provide a quick answer:
0 you who believe! Do not take My enemy and your enemy for friends; would you offer them love while they deny what has come to you of the truth, . . . would you manifest love to them? ... (60: 1). It is undoubtedly known that the verse refers to one man, Hatib ibn Abi Balta'ah, when he corresponded with the Quraysh.
Or about the verse: "They say: "If we return to Medina, the mighty will surely drive out the meaner there from,". .. (63:8). It is well known that the speaker one man, was 'Abdullah ibn Ubayy ibn Salul.
Or about the verse: "They ask you as to what they should spend ..." (2:215), and the questioner was one man.
Or about the verse: "(As for) those who spend their wealth by night and by day, secretly and openly, they shall have their reward ..." (2:274). It is narrated that the spender was 'Ali or Abu Bakr.
(they say), "We fear lest a calamity should befall us;". . . (5:52). The speaker was 'Abdullah ibn Ubayy, according to the narrated reason of revelation
brother pagluu - I am not following my own independent free will but rather the Quran.
[Pickthal 3:68] Lo! those of mankind who have the best claim to Abraham are those who followed him, and this Prophet and those who believe (with him); and Allah is the Protecting Guardian of the believers.
If you read the ayah as it should be then you have to believe what the the ayah states clearly!
There is no way out for you - It will be you who is using free will to differ with the Quran!!
And please Note the second part of the ayah: "and this Prophet and those who believe (with him);"
"This Prophet" refers to Prophet Muhammad (saw) - so those who are his followers and believe in him are from among his Aal.
So when we recite the salawaat/Durood on the Prophet (saw), his sincere followers are included in among the "Aal Muhammad".
[Pickthal 3:68] Lo! those of mankind who have the best claim to Abraham are those who followed him, and this Prophet and those who believe (with him); and Allah is the Protecting Guardian of the believers.
Above is a beautiful, and extremely important verse. But how is it, according to you a proof, that Aal of Ibrahim are his followers?
Actually, try to read whole Sura Aal Imran, and then share with me why you think this chapter is called Aal Imran.
Pagluu, I am going to repeat myself for your sake!
[QUOTE]
Let’s refer the Quran for this: And see who has the best claim to Hz. Ibrahim(as)
[Pickthal 3:68] Lo! those of mankind who have the best claim to Abraham are those who followed him, and this Prophet and those who believe (with him); and Allah is the Protecting Guardian of the believers.
See the commentary to the above ayah by Shia Scholar and he quite a hardcore!
Look for ayah 3:68
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 3:68]
*The nearest of men to Ibrahim were surely those who followed him and his religion. Nearness takes effect through faithful following, not because of relationship, **and that is why the son of Nuh has been condemned (Hud: 45, 46). **Ali ibna abi Talib has also said that the nearest to the Holy Prophet is he who obeys Allah, though he may not be related to him, and the enemy of the Holy Prophet is he who disobeys Allah, though he may be related to him. Imam Ali bin Husayn al Zayn al Abidin has said: "Paradise is for the pious, be he a slave; and hell is for the wicked, be he a Quraysh (relative of the Holy Prophet)." And that which was applicable to Ibrahim is applicable to the Holy Prophet and those who believe as the Holy Prophet believes. It must be noted that obedience to Allah is not possible unless one obeys the Holy Prophet, and those whom the Holy Prophet has designated to be obeyed, his beloved Ahl ul Bayt. Those who watched the Holy Prophet, fighting his enemies in the battles, from a safe distance, as if having no interest in the outcome of the war, so as to change sides at will and join the winners, or at least run away from the scene of conflict to save their lives and properties, can never be included among the "men nearest to the Holy Prophet"; as also those who opposed and killed his Ahlul Bayt. They are the worst hypocrites, his hidden enemies.*
Similarly there is a narration from the Prophet (saw):
After having conquere Makkah the Prophet (saw) turned to Medinah and said: "Those Ahlel Bayt of mine **think that they have the most right (to me) and it is not like this. Rather those who have the most right to me from amongst you are the pious, whoever they are and wherever they are.**" [Narrated by Ibn Abi Asim 2/689 and Al-Tabarani 20/121]
"The Prophet (saw) has shown that the true relationship to him is that of piety and religion and not of biological descent. Had the Prophet (saw) indeed set a dynasty of rulers from his offspring, this would have cast doubt to the Prophet's truthfulness and sincerity in conveying Allah's word and then the Prophet (saw) would have been like other kings who were after this Dunya (materialistic world) and founded kingdoms with dynasties from their offspring. Indeed, the Prophet (saw) even forbade his progeny from inheriting wealth from him!"
[/QUOTE]
These are the blessed words of the Prophet (saw)
"Those Ahlel Bayt of mine **think that they have the most right (to me) and it is not like this. Rather those who have the most right to me from amongst you are the pious, whoever they are and wherever they are.**"
And pleasuse Note that Surah Aal Imran is translated as 'Family of Imran' and not as 'progeny of Imran' - big difference!
^sorry brother- I am uninterested in playing dodge ball so I will have to skip your new question that you have picked out from Tabarani. You had questions one question after another, and several of them are answered yet you seem to have shown no signs of learning.
Also, I request you to refrain from using the Holy Quran just to attain temporary point gains. Read the verses around 3:68 and understand the subject the verse is addressing. Jews and Christians claim their love for Ibrahim (as) whereas, these verses are revealing that true adherents of Ibrahim (as) are ones who follow his ways and commands and not just pay lip service and make big claims of loving Ibrahim (as).
The third chapter of the Holy Quran is called Aal Imran because of the following important verses:
إِنَّ اللّهَ اصْطَفَى آدَمَ وَنُوحًا وَآلَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَآلَ عِمْرَانَ عَلَى الْعَالَمِينَ {33}
[Shakir 3:33] Surely Allah chose Adam and Nuh and the descendants of Ibrahim and the descendants of Imran above the nations.
ذُرِّيَّةً بَعْضُهَا مِن بَعْضٍ وَاللّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ {34}
[Shakir 3:34] Offspring one of the other; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.
In above verses, Adam (as) and Noah (as) are mentioned by their names but Ibrahim (as) and Imran (as) are praised along with their descendants and chosen offspring. All of the representatives of Allah (swt) were chosen from the same family and offspring.
I must agree with the definition of Ibn Sadique that Zurriat means 'progeny' and Aal means 'family' noting 'ahl' to mean the 'house/people'
Also I would like to reiterate that to be considered a member of the family of Abraham (AS) as in Jewish/Christian tradition one does not have to be from the bloodline, or rather being from the bloodline itself is not good enough.
To be Sayyid does count for something but not everything and also to be pious and righteous without being Sayyid is enough to be considered from the people who we should follow.
The people who have a lineage either in family or in tutelage demonstrates that there is a direct line of teaching going back to the prophet Muhammad (SAW). The family itself may demonstrate this, but to have sat with scholars who sat with scholars who sat with those people is called a silsila in some circles and may result in an unbroken chain of narrations which are considered reliable because they are passed on to those who are taught by those who know how to understand the knowledge that they are passing down.
There is a position amonst people that bloodline counts for nothing, alternatively there is another position that bloodline counts for everything. These are both extreme positions and we should agree that being from the bloodline and at the same time being from the authentic chains of traditional knowledge, ijaza and silsila is the best.
The Mahdi will be both best in character and a Sayyid and that is the position of most Muslims, for example.
From:
(1) Ibn Qutaybah, Uyun, I, 326;
(2) al-Tabari, al-Mustarshid, p. 73;
(3) IbnAbd Rabbih, al-`Iqd, III, 112;
(4) al-'Amidi, Ghurar, 331, 354;
(5) Ibn Talhah, Matalib, I.
Imam Ali (as) said:
I praise Allah seeking completion of His Blessing, submitting to His Glory and expecting safety from committing His sins. I invoke His help being in need of His Sufficiency (of protection). He whom He guides does not get astray, He with whom He is hostile gets no protection. He whom He supports does not remain needy. Praise is most weighty of all that is weighed and the most valuable of all that is treasured.
I stand witness that there is no god but Allah the One. He has no like. My testimony has been tested in its frankness, and its essence is our belief. We shall cling to it for ever till we live and shall store it facing the tribulations that overtake us because it is the foundation stone of Belief (iman) and the first step towards good actions and Divine pleasure. It is the means to keep Satan away.
I also stand witness that Muhammad (p.b.u.h.a.h.p.) is His slave and His Prophet. Allah sent him with the illustrious religion, effective emblem, written Book, effulgent light, sparkling gleam and decisive injunction in order to dispel doubts, present clear proofs, administer warning through signs and to warn of punishments. At that time people had fallen in vices whereby the rope of religion had been broken, the pillars of belief had been shaken, principles had been sacrileged, system had become topsy turvy, openings were narrow, passage was dark, guidance was unknown and darkness prevailed.
Allah was being disobeyed, Satan was given support and Belief had been forsaken. As a result the pillars of religion fell down, its traces could not be discerned, its passages had been destroyed and its streets had fallen into decay. People obeyed Satan and treaded his paths. They sought water from his watering places. Through them Satan's emblems got flying and his standard was raised in vices which trampled the people under their hoofs, and treaded upon them with their feet. The vices stood on their toes (in full stature) and the people immersed in them were strayed, perplexed, ignorant and seduced as though in a good house with bad neighbours. Instead of sleep they had wakefulness and for antimony they had tears in the eyes. They were in a land where the learned were in bridle (keeping their mouths shut) while the ignorant were honoured.
**In the same sermon Amir al-mu'minin referred to Al an-Nabi (the Household of the Holy Prophet) as under:
They are the trustees of His secrets, shelter for His affairs, source of knowledge about Him, centre of His wisdom, valleys for His books and mountains of His religion. With them Allah straightened the bend of religion's back and removed the trembling of its limbs.**
In the same Sermon he spoke about the hypocrites
They sowed vices, watered them with deception and harvested destruction.
**(Alu Muhammad)
None in the Islamic community can be taken at par with the Progeny of the Prophet (Alu Muhammad). One who was under their obligation cannot be matched with them. They are the foundation of religion and pillar of Belief. The forward runner has to turn back to them while the follower has to overtake them. They possess the chief characteristics for vicegerency. In their favour exists the will and succession (of the Prophet). This is the time when right has returned to its owner and diverted to its centre of return.**
Aal is a word with a very vast meaning. Followers of Firoun are also addressed as Aal Firoun in the Quran. However, Aal e Ibraim and Aal e Mohammad are none but the chosen, purified members of the family of the Prophets whom you are ordered to send blessings. To follow them is the straight path to Allah (swt). They are the Prophets and the Imams and were bestowed with divine favors and knowledge:
[12:6] And thus will your Lord choose you and teach you the interpretation of sayings and make His favor complete to you and to the children of Yaqoub, as He made it complete before to your fathers, Ibrahim and Ishaq; surely your Lord is Knowing, Wise
Admittedly, I have contributed more than my share in this topic and seem to be repeating myself here (so much so that I have surpassed 1,000 posts finally!)