What is Marzee is it religoin or way ?

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: What is Marzee is it religoin or way ?

Brothers /Sisters
due to my sickness I could not loging to this forum to know about my question , but I was really shocked when I found a lot of replies postive / negative discussion . Thank you all trying to give idea about this " Marzee".. I have already asked here in Kuwait about this group from our Muftee Dr Khalid Al-Mathkoor and other shiekh here and they give me more information and what is our openoin about them . and agree on openion of some of our friends here in this forum ..Many Thanks for all

Timepass - March 2013
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Re: What is Marzee is it religoin or way ?

While you are at it please also listen to this…,

This one explains the situation from the perspective when khatam means Seal/consumation
http://www.tanzeemarchive.org/tanzeemeislami/Misc/Radd-e-Qadyaniyyet%20Ki%20Aqli%20Daleel.ra

If you dont have the time or if you dont understand Urdu then you may read what I learnt from listening to this

here
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-scripture/316863-what-marzee-religoin-way-3.html#post6443356

if you want to understand the concepts related to Rafaa-e-Nazool-Massih in addition to the Ahmediya material also consider listening to this

http://www.tanzeemarchive.org/tanzeemeislami/Misc/Qadyaniyyet%20Aur%20Rafa%20Nazool%20Maseeh%20(a).ra

http://www.tanzeemarchive.org/tanzeemeislami/Misc/Qadyaniyyet%20Aur%20Rafa%20Nazool%20Maseeh%20(b).ra

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Re: What is Marzee is it religoin or way ?

Dear Member,

If anyone denies the Khatam-e-Nabowat and believes that there will be another prophet after Prophet Muhammad (SAAW), then yes he is non-muslim… now i do not intend to go in the details of the Deo-Bandi School of thought.. but making and an opinion of from the half statement is not going to help you people out for long.. in this thread some body have posted a link where it clarify Ibn-e-Arabi’s stance on Khatam-e-Nabuwat please read that… ( i know who will never do that.. as non of you have even bother to reply or refute that particular reply)

Please see** post 44 **for your so-called Ibn-e-Arabi thing.. and i think that will tell everyone how Ahmadi create lies !!!

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Re: What is Marzee is it religoin or way ?

I knew that you cannot say something logical.. Ahmadies are out of fold of Islam and it has been decided and agreed by all muslim cults... so i don't have to repeat that... and... so Ahmadi can believe what ever they want to believe.. i have no problem with that.. infact their are people in this world who think Monkey, Snake, Cow, Elephant are their gods... and i don't object.. it is their believe and they are free to believe in it.. so does Ahmadies.. they can believe in what ever they want.. and they can have as many prophets as they like... and believe in mutliple or single god, they can copy some virutes of another religion.. and they can copy whomever they like to.. but they can't be muslim... thats the bottom line...

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Re: What is Marzee is it religoin or way ?

Unfortunately for you the umma does not agree with you and despite these elders having the views they have, they have not been declared non-Muslim by the umma. Get the umma to declare them non-Muslim then you will make some sense.

[Quote]
now i do not intend to go in the details of the Deo-Bandi School of thought.. but making and an opinion of from the half statement is not going to help you people out for long..
[/Quote]

Why do you not present the full statement if this is the case? Because there isn't anything more to present. Who are you kidding? You are obviously stuck on this one and can't refute the reference hence this avoidance tactic.

[Quote]
...in this thread some body have posted a link where it clarify Ibn-e-Arabi's stance on Khatam-e-Nabuwat please read that... ( i know who will never do that.. as non of you have even bother to reply or refute that particular reply)

Please see** post 44 **for your so-called Ibn-e-Arabi thing.. and i think that will tell everyone how Ahmadi create lies !!!
[/quote]

Both Ibn-Arabi and Qasim Nanutwi references are presented and validated by non-Ahmadi molivs viz Ghamdi and Kaukab Naurani. Both of them differ from Ahmadi view and in fact oppose it. So credibility of these references is intact. Unless you can prove these non-Ahmadi molvis are lying and misrepresenting the issue. Neither you or poster 44 is a scholar of any calibre so no your view isn’t worth a dime compared to these scholars.

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Re: What is Marzee is it religoin or way ?

^^ Please re-visit the link mention in the post 44 and then speak...

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Re: What is Marzee is it religoin or way ?

Check Ghamdi's video in post 66. He is a scholar of repute (and you are not). He has all of Ibn-Arabi's writings in mind when he claims what he claims. Also in the same programme Alf where this video is taken from, anti-ahmadiyya scholar Ahmad Javaid was also present and he did not dispute Ibn-Arabi's reference as presented by Ghamdi.

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Re: What is Marzee is it religoin or way ?

As I said, Prophets are allowed but not the Khalifas. Even though the prophets were allowed they used to keep a parda and convey their message to women through their wives. But Khalifas were not allowed in those times so they used to try their level best to not directly talk to them. How then a person in present times who claim to be a khalifa think it is allowed for him to do so. The loud (and at times strange) sound of laughing by women make that video even more unpleasent.

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Re: What is Marzee is it religoin or way ?

Who told you this? Give reference. Don't women need to get reprieve during khalifa's time?

[quote]
Even though the prophets were allowed they used to keep a parda and convey their message to women through their wives.
[/quote]

Absolutely false. Many women are quoted as having come and appeared in their person. A few were adulterous women who came for punishment but there are many many other examples too. With adulterous women often intimate conversation took place to ascertain their crime and this is quoted. Just read hadith and get some knowledge before start making big claims.

[quote]
But Khalifas were not allowed in those times. Where doe sit say khlai so they used to try their level best to not directly talk to them.
[/quote]

Proof? Reference? Women did come to Khulafa it is on record.

[quote]
How then a person in present times who claim to be a khalifa think it is allowed for him to do so. The loud (and at times strange) sound of laughing by women make that video even more unpleasent.
[/quote]

You are just clutching on straws, having failed in every other manner... its your own sickness of mind that is unpleasant.

Just to be clear on what you are talking about even though it is absured...

What about all the sunni women/girls all over world including all the Muslim countries, who go to work/college/school/shopping and interact with na-mhram men? Are they and the Sunni men they see committing sin? What do you think is the punishment of these sunni men and women?

What about molvis of all denominations appearing on all those tv shows all over Muslim world with women often in their skirts or tight dresses? You think all these molvis are committing sin? What is it these molvis do not know that you alone know? What about all religious and political leaders who sit with women in assemblies all over Muslim countries? Are all these sinners? Also what is you definition of purdah and do you think vast majority of Sunni women follow it? If not what is their punishment and why do Sunni molvis meet such women who are both na-mehram and not in purdah?

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Re: What is Marzee is it religoin or way ?

asalamualykum,,,my dear brother i read post, according to my knowledge an ahmadi does not believe on sharia of Mirza Ghulam ahmad, they follow the same sharia as we have from Muhammad (PBUM), kalima, quran, sunnat, hadith. as i found from them are same. the condradition on them is they believe in Ghumal ahmad as Imam Mehdi and Umati Nabi,

this is what i found them

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Re: What is Marzee is it religoin or way ?

Please re-visit the link... I don't know why are you so afraid to visit it???

Link is in Post 44 of this thread..

Ghamdi has his own view point, but your claim of Ibn-e-Arabi has been refuted by some good reference and reasoning in that link which also dis-qualify the basis of ur discussion.. i guess thats the reason you dont want to visit the link

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Re: What is Marzee is it religoin or way ?

Dear Bro..

Please read all the replies and links of this thread, they believe in the Prophet-hood of Mirzan Ghulam Ahmed Qadyan.. this nullify them as Muslims, as one of the basic believe in Islam is to believe that there will be no prophet After Prophet Muhammad (SAAW).

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Re: What is Marzee is it religoin or way ?

Completely false. Where does it say this? Prove it from original teachings of Islam and not from any pseudo-Mullah's words like yourself. Nowhere in the original ahadith there is any such restriction.

If you are going to keep making things up then there is no point continuing discussion.

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Re: What is Marzee is it religoin or way ?

Please re-visit the link posted in post 44 of this thread

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Re: What is Marzee is it religoin or way ?

That is exactly the point. If your own molvis accept this (which is the case) then problem solved. It is no longer an Ahmadi only interpretation but one that is shared by non-Ahmadis. Now your task is to get your own molvis to agree with you before complaining of Ahmadis believing what your own molvis believe.

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Now that you are proven a liar on the matter of "one of the basic believe in Islam is to believe that there will be no prophet After Prophet Muhammad (SAAW)" you are trying to avoid the issue?

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Re: What is Marzee is it religoin or way ?

The False Prophecies of a False Prophet

Mirza Ghulam Qadiani’s False Predictions

Mirza Ghulam Qadiani, the founder of Qadianism (Ahmadiyyat), wrote in his books:

  • “To Judge my truthfulness or lies, there is no better test than my prophecies.”
    (Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 19, P. 288)
  • “Let it be known to unbelieving persons that my truthfulness or falsehood will be judged by my prophecies. There is no other touchstone for it.”
    (Pamphlet, 10th July 1888; Aina-e-Kamalat-i-Islam, P. 288)
  • “I do not speak of my volition. Indeed, that is nothing but revelation which is revealed.”
    (Tabligh-e-Risalat, Vol. 5, P. 58)
  • Torah and Quran have designated Prophecies as the only big proof of Prophethood."
    (Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 12, P. 111)
  • “It is not possible that the prophecies of Prophets are delayed.”
    (Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 19, P. 5)
  • “To turn out a liar in his own prophecy is biggest disgrace of disgraces.”
    (Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 15, P. 382)

Allow us to examine a few of the better known prophecies of the person who called himself a Prophet, Mehdi, and the Promised Messiah. According to Mirza Ghulam himself, even if only one prophecy has not come to pass, we should view him a liar and an impostor. Let’s count his most famous prophecies which did not come to pass:

  • Prophecies and Mubahala Concerning Mr. Abdullah Khan Atham
    Mirza Ghulam Qadiani was badly humiliated by Mr. A.K. Atham, a Christian, in a debate. Mirza Ghulam’s repeated prophecies regarding a miserable death for Mr. Atham did not come to pass.
  • Prophecy concerning Multiple Marriages and many Children
    “Indeed God has given me the good news that I shall have numerous children from blessed women, whom I shall marry after this revelation.”
    (Tabligh-i-Risalat, Vol. 5, P. 58)

“In February 1886, I made a declaration after receiving revelation from God that He gave me good news of marriages after this declaration and soon I shall marry women of good omen and virtue and to me will be born children from them.”
(Tabligh-i-Risalat, Vol. 1, P. 89)

Mirza Ghulam made this statement when he was 46 years old. The fact is that he did not marry anyone after this prophecy.

“It is God’s intention that He will bring two ladies in my wedlock. One will be virgin and the other widow. Therefore, this inspiration that is related to *Bikr *(virgin), it has been fulfilled and, presently by the grace of God, I have four sons from this wife. I am still waiting for the fulfillment of the inspiration regarding widow.”
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 15, P. 201)

Mirza Ghulam never married a widow.

  • Prophecies Regarding “A Spark of Light of Allah”
    Mirza Ghulam’s claim that a new born boy would grow up to become the savior of the humanity failed, when the young boy died of an illness.
  • Prophecies Concerning the Plague and Qadian
    Mirza Ghulam feared Cholera very much and declared it to be one of his signs. He predicted that the plague that became rampant in Punjab will not enter Qadian, the dwelling place of God’s prophet (himself)! However, not only did the plague spread to Qadian, it also took the life of several people in Mirza Ghulam’s own house.
  • Prophecies Concerning Birth of a Son to a Follower
    Mirza Ghulam’s prophecies concerning the birth of a son to one of his followers, Manzoor Muhammad, did not materialize.
  • Prophecies and Mubahala Concerning Dr. Abdul Hakim](http://www.irshad.org/qadianism/prophecg.php)
    Mirza Ghulam Qadiani engaged in a discussion with a Muslim Doctor by the name of Abdul Hakim. During this discussion, the Doctor called Mirza a Liar and challenged him to a debate. Instead of accepting the debate, Mirza Ghulam prophecised a miserable death for Dr. Hakim. These predictions also failed and proved to be the inventions of a lost soul and a pretender.
  • Prophecy Concerning Long Life
    Mirza Ghulam declared to have received wahi (revelation) concerning his lifespan:

“Enemies wish for my death and prophecise about it. God has, however, given me the good news that I shall live for eighty (80) years or more.”
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 19, P. 239; Mawahib-ur-Rahman, P. 21)

Mirza Ghulam Qadiani died when he was sixty eight (68) years old.

  • Prophecy Concerning his Death in a Holy City
    Mirza Ghulam had stated:

“I will die either in Mekkah or Medina.”
(Tadhkira, P. 591)

Mirza Ghulam did not ever see Mekkah or Medina. He died in the city of Lahor, Pakistan; his body was moved and burried in Qadian.

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The Discrepancies of Mirza Ghulam Qadiani

(In light of his own Writings)

Mirza Ghulam Qadiani wrote:
"It is obvious that a truthful, clever and open-hearted man does not make any lapses in his works. Yet, if he is mad, indisposed or hypocrite, who for the sake of flattery does agree with others, his writings becomes contradictory."
(Sat-Bachen, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 10, P. 142; Sat-Bachen, P. 26) "He is absolutely an indisposed man whose work is full of fallacies and trivial observations."
(Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, P. 184)

Is it fair for us to judge Mirza Ghulam in the light of his own writings? Please review the following brief samples of his discrepancies and decide for yourself if he was "mad, indisposed, or hypocrite". Which one of his contradictory writings should we accept?

  • "I have claimed to be Maseel Maseeh, which stupid people thinks that it is The Promised Messiah ... I have never claimed to be the Messiah ibne Maryam. Anyone who accuses me of it, he is absolutely a liar and fabricator. For the last eight years, I have been announcing that I am only Maseel Maseeh; By that I mean that certain spiritual properties and nature and habits and virtues of Jesus(AS) has been given to me as well by God Almighty." (Izala-e-Auham, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 3, P. 192)

"I swear upon that God, who has sent me and lying on Him is the work of accursed one, He has sent me as The Promised Messiah."
(Majmoo'a-e-Ishtiharaat, Vol. 3, P. 435)
- "Very true, Messiah (Jesus) died going to his native land Galeel."
(Azala-e-Auham, P. 197)

"Messiah, very secretly, ran away toward Kashmir and died there."
(Kashti-e-Nuh, P. 53)
- "Messiah's (Jesus) miracle, the sparrows and their flight, are proved in the Holy Quran, but even then they retained their earthly status."
(Aina-e-Kamalat, P. 68)

"And this should be remembered that those fowls and their flight are not proven in the Holy Quran."
(Azala-e-Auham, P. 28)
- "Thus I respect that man (Jesus) whose name I have. Not only Maseeh, I even respect his four brothers because all five were the sons of same mother."
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 19, P. 18)

"What was the character of Maseeh? A gluttonous, an alcoholic, neither a devout worshipper nor a hermit. Nor an adorer of truth, arrogant, self-conceited, claimant of divinity."
(Roohani Khazaen, Vol. 9, P. 387)
- "All the knowledge that a Prophet possesses is taught by the angel Gabriel and the door of Gabriel's descent to bring the revelations of prophethood is closed for ever."
(Izalat-ul-Auham, P. 761)

"And Gabriel came to me and selected me and circled his finger and suggested that God would protect me from all enemies."
(Mawahib-ul-Rahman, P. 66)
- "I fully subscribe to the doctrine that Muhammad is the last of the Prophets and that any claimant to prophethood after him is an impostor and a Kafir."
(Tabligh-i-Risalat, Vol. 2, P. 20; Poster dated Oct. 2, 1891)

"I swear by God in whose hand lies my existence and say that it is He who has reputed me and called me a prophet and the Messiah."
(Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Appendix, P. 68)
- "The prophet and the messenger of God (Mirza Ghulam) lived in Qadian. That is why it was protected against the plague."
(Dafee-ul-Bla, P. 5)

"Once the plague very vigorously broke out in Qadian."
(Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, P. 232)
- "I have never abused anyone."
(Moahiburahman, P. 18)

"Those who oppose me are wild boars and their women are worst than ****es."
(*Najmul-Huda, P.15)

*Are these the writings of a sane person or those of a mad, indisposed, or hypocrite individual? *
It was in fact Mirza's habit to test the gullibility of his followers by making an outlandish claim. If too much resistance was offered and many were about to leave his movement, he would retract his claim temporarily and declare that the audience did not understand his true intent! At a later time, after his followers had been better prepared, he would advance his false claim again. Mirza Ghulam's work is in fact convoluted with contradictory statements and retractions for this exact reason. The Qadiani missionaries often try to put Mirza's contradictory statements to good use and, by mentioning only the quotes that benefits their argument, try to paint an appealing portrait of Mirza.

Punjabi Words...!!!
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Re: What is Marzee is it religoin or way ?

thanks to ;
The Discrepancies of Mirza Ghulam Qadiani

Punjabi Words...!!!
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Re: What is Marzee is it religoin or way ?

I think you are avoiding issue and running here and there, whereas since my first reply to you i asked u to visit the link of post 44.. and you r just coming up with funny things.. carry on.. everyone including me will surely understand that y u r avoiding it....

Timepass - March 2013
Timepass - March 2013