What if...

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Peace Bigboi

No prophet was required to be obedient to another prophet (AS) ... And certainly Isa (AS) will be obedient to RasoolAllah (SAW) and never claim to be superior to him (SAW) ... Nor bring another Wahi like the Qur'an ... You can count on that!

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Peace wais88

There are two different ahadith on this ...

one is an instruction to take care of the Qur'an and the AhleBait and the second hadith is advice that we will not going astray due to the Qur'an and Sunnah.

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Seriously guys, get a grip and argue your points in a civil manner without resorting to hurting each other's feelings. Also, if you're going to debate in the Religion forum I suggest you grow some thick skin, not everything will be your cup of tea. Thanks.

As for the question OP, I hope my iman is true and sincere enough for me to make the right choice, Inshallah.

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assalamalaikum....
come on i hate it when people here shoot arrows with closed eyes.
can you prove it? i know in few books it is been said quran and sunnah but most of the books including Sahih Bukhari,
Sahih Muslim, Thirmidhi, Sunan Ibn
Majah, Sunan Nasai, Sunan Abu Dawood have mentioned quran and ahle bait...and are you saying that imam bukhari is wrong??!!!!!!!
i dont think so, i think you are a sane person and you will learn

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Peace wais88

i told you already … This is not a case where a hadith is altered … They are two different hadith with two different meanings.

Quran and Sunnah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now stop derailing this I’m not gonna change that … :nahi:

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assalamalaikum
you need to go and read that link which you posted and definately you or your teachers have altered that beautiful hadees.
and that wiki men dont know that sunni sect actually approves the ‘ahle bait’ instead of ‘sunnah’ and ahle bait teaches us sunnah.
and im not derailing this thread i’m trying to shed light on the topic of imam mahdi.
from that very beautiful hadees it is proved that whoever beholds to imam mahdi he will never go astray (as said by prophet s.a.w “behold to quran and my ahle bait”) as we all know that imam mahdi will be from ahle bait.
you (psyah) can keep your altered hadees i dont wanna keep arguing with you.
i’m not amongst those who keep telling people about what’s right and wrong.
i just prove my point and then its on you if you agree or disagree with me.

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Peace,
Problem with Muslims nowadays is that they have this so called iman that whatsoever their forefathers have been believing and whatsoever are they on is 100% correct and that whatever is written in ahadith, they must come to its fulfillment exactly the same way you understood them. This creates the whole problem.

The hadith of Muslim ummah being exactly the same as Jewish ummah has to come true. For this is what is happening. Muslims are waiting for the literal fulfillment of whatever is written in ahadith.

I humbly ask my fellow muslim brothers and sisters to tell me if such a thing ever happened in the history of mankind ? a prophet foretelling about another prophet coming and telling us about the signs and those signs came to their fulfillment exactly the same way. No. This has never happened. We have in front of us the example of the prophethood of Isa(as).

It is the sunnah of Allah that whenever his people started to be misguided despite having a book, Allah raise among them a messenger who brings back the same teachings of the deen and call the world to the pure deen. And as the history tells us, arrogant people are too proud to be on the right path, they dont feel anything wrong with rejecting even a messenger of Allah.

Imam Mahdi is no other than Isa (as) himself. And since Isa (as) is dead, we need to look for a person who will be raised in muslim ummah who will be given the title of Masih and Imam Mahdi. (keep in mind, Mahdi only means the guided one). Ibn e majah hadith states that there’s no mahdi (guided one) except Isa(as).

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Peace Popat –

Muslims believe in Islam which was the Belief of Prophet Muhammad (saw) and his Blessed Companions (May Allah be pleased with them all) anything apart of that is tainted ‘Islam’.

Quran being Word of Allah Almighty is 100% correct and is easy to understand. And it should be understood only as the Blessed Prophet Muhammad (saw) made it to be understood!!!

All of the authentic ahadith are 100% correct as these are the very words uttered by the Blessed Prophet (saw) and diligently reported by his blessed Companions (May Allah be pleased with them all)

You mentioned Jewish Ummah.

Do you know why the Jewish Ummah earned Allah Almighty’s wrath?

It is exactly opposite to what you are intending to imply!!!

Jewish Ummah were haughty and rebellious by their nature. They always deviated from true message and gave their own twisted interpretations to the Message from Allah Almighty to suit their nefarious desires and whims.
So those who want to re-interpret Islamic code of belief to suit their desires and whims are in fact following in the foot-steps of Jewish Ummah.

I can’t believe you wrote that!

If you refer to history it has enough material to confirm that many Jewish and Christian scholars accepted Islam and Prophet Muhammad (saw) from evidence from their own books. The haughty and rebellious ones covered the truth!

Advent of the Blessed Prophet foretold in the Bible (as matter of fact in books of other faiths too)

Muhammad was foretold in the Bible.

So Ahmadis/Qadianis believe of possibility of another Prophet form Allah Almighty when Jammat Ahmadiyyah/Qadianis start drifting away to bring back to the fold?

History is also proof that there are enough gullible people who will follow any false prophet believing themselves to be most righteous of all.

Do you want me to quote you hundreds of ahadith of advent of Jesus son of Mary (peace be upon him) and that he is not dead (we have done this before so leave this alone) and Imam Mahdi?

Isn’t strange and irony that Ahmadis/Qadianis reject all authentic ahadith relating to Imam Mahdi (ra) and Prophet Isa Ibn Maryum (as) and rely on extremely weak hadith to base doctrine of their religion. This is not only strange and ironic but very pathetic too.

Read the following:

Mahdi and ‘Eisa are not same

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Salams Ibn Sadique

I have understood something else from the quote …

I disagree with Mullah Ali Qari … he has wrongly quoted Mirza Ghulam Ahmad … You quoted Ali Qari to have said this:

“*Infact Mirza Ghulam Ahmad himself accepted that this report is not authentic”

*but below in his quote of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad the passage does not say that as above … rather MGA is justifying the rejection of Mahdi by using this hadith alone … so he is not saying “THIS report is unauthentic”, but he is saying all other reports of Mahdi are unauthentic because this report says so …

So on one hand we have lots of weak hadith that support the idea of Mahdi and one hadith that does not support the idea of Mahdi … The Qadianis say that this single hadith is sound and all the others are weak and even fabricated, we say this hadith is as weak as all the others but weaker because it does not confirm the content of the others … we are obviously people of majority but MGA was clearly selecting only those narrations that suited his own agenda, without recourse to following a methodology.

In fact since the science of Ilm-ul-Rijal - That in itself is proof that no more prophet will come - because it forces us to consult the books first … Today the only sign for the true Mahdi is the person who naturally without effort study or without resorting to mutashabiha verses and daeef hadith will stand firm … It will be obvious who Mahdi is … people are making up imaginary scenarios - That we will not recognise him … Of course we will … it is as clear as day and night in our hadith … we only have to read them. As you say …

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Wa alaykum salaam respected brother** psyah**

The above words are NOT words of Mullah Ali Qari – these are the words of the writer of the article.

I have copy-pasted the paragraph from the article, see the link below:

Mahdi and ‘Eisa are not same

Structuring of the paragraph makes it seem as if these are words of Mullah Ali Qari.

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Bless you for the clarification … So I disagree with the writer’s interpolation and not Mulla Ali Qari …

JazakAllahukhair … What you do you think about what I said anyway … do you think the writer of the article has made a jump too far?

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Reading it back again your analysis is right on the spot. Jazakallah khayrunn

Mullah Ali Qari (rahmullah) was a great Islamic scholar(d.1014/1605) I believe Ahmadi/Qadianis take him to be Mujadid of sixteenth Century.

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JazakAllahukhair - I’ll read up on Mullah Ali Qari (RA) …

Another point about the article written - the writer misses an important thing …

إماما مهديا

Whenever a word in Arabic has Alif at the end then it is tanween with fatha … i.e. the above is pronounced, “Imam.n Mahdiy.n”
He does state this as well, but he does not realise that this means “A rightly guided one” i.e. it is nakhira - or indefinite … So it is saying there are more “rightly guided ones” - whenever it states The Mahdi it states it like this “Al-Mahdiy.u” without the alif at the end … the ending will be .u, .a or .i depending on the state (nominative, accusative or genitive). But the Al- makes it definite and means someone specific … but the term above is general. The writer should be given this information to add to his article because it is important to say that.

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Salam Ibn Sadique,
As you know I’ve discussed with you a lot on the issue of Isa (as). I’m not in the mood to get back to same topic. I’m also going to spare you time and not going to quote you back.

why dont we talk about the topic ? It’s this pride that Muslims were told that they will one day be just like jews. Look at what you’re doing. Don’t start jumping up and down everytime I post in religion forum and dont start bringing jamaat e ahmadiyya in every discussion. Tell me if you’re willing to adjust your beliefs and your false interpretation of Quran and ahadith if Jesus comes back again and tell you the correct understanding of Islam ? If you listen to him, then for sure you have been wrong in knowing what the true teachings of Islam had been.. and if you do not listen to him, then you will be a denier of a prophet ( yes a prophet !.. Jesus a.s will come as a prophet, please spare me time to not quote different ullamas regarding what they say about his second coming ).

So, choice is yours.. i’m willing to hear if you have pride in what you believe and pride in knowing that whatever your ullamas have told you is 100% correct then I bet you cannot take Jesus a.s telling you anything. That’s just how it is.

Are you flexible enough to let Jesus a.s come to tell you the correct interpretation of Quran and true meaning of Ahadith ?

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My dear friend Popat – Peace

You don’t really have to feel paranoid. I am not stalking you. This is a public debating forum to express ones point of view. If you post anything here, expect it to be challenged and even refuted with backing of credible evidence. It seems like insecurity is creeping in on to you.

Come on, everybody on this board who ventures in ‘Religion section’ knows what you are peddling. Even the occasional poster or viewer knows that you always pitching for Ahmadi/Qadiani beliefs. Of course you have every right to do so. Just as much as I have to express my views. Me? Jumping up and down? Surely you must be hallucinating?

If you discuss on any topic say, cricket, football, or politics, take my word for that I will not drag jamaat e ahmadiyya into that that discussion. With my right hand on my heart I promise you so.

First of all let’s get this right - Islam is faith which Prophet Muhammad preached and practiced. There is nothing more that can be added or anything subtracted from it. Anybody who adds or takes away from this is a deviant.

I had stated as follows:

I believe in what I have stated above and try to practice above as much as I can but I should practice more.

Muslims believe that Hz Isa Ibn Marryum (as) will add nothing or subtract anything from what Prophet Muhammad (saw) believed in or practiced.

He will correct the beliefs of wayward Muslims and bring them back to its pristine form in line with beliefs and practice of the Noble Prophet Muhammad (saw).

Trust me I am very flexible in following the correct interpretation of Quran and true meaning of Ahadith – But this has to be in line with the Belief of Prophet Muhammad (saw) and his Blessed Companions (May Allah be pleased with them all).

If I was shown that I was at fault and was not following the Quran and the Sunnah of the Blessed Prophet Muhammad (saw) according to the guidelines set by the Blessed Prophet himself (saw), I’ll repent correct my beliefs and practice accordingly. I am always learning more and more and willing to do so. So much to learn and so little time!

Now can you honestly tell me have you ever wondered that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad could be a fraudster and a charlatan? Have you ever wondered why the beliefs and practices of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad are so variant to that of the Blessed Prophet Muhammad?

Are you brave enough to challenge and check up beliefs of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad?

Popat just borrowed your signature - I hope you don’t mind

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:k::k: Ibn Sadique Well Said

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How convenient for you to forget that Issa (AS) was sent for the guidance of Bani Israel. For guidance of a nation Allah sends a prophet from amongst them, not an outsider. Only holy Prophet (saw) was exception because Allah himself bestowed him with title of Rahmat-ul-lil-Alameen.

Khuda ko Issa itna azzez ke us ne Issa ko aasman pe utha liya, aur hamaray piyaray Nabi Pak (SAW) ko zameen mein hi rahnay diya.
Balkay yehi nahi, muslim ummah ki hidayat ke liye bhi akhir mein Issa ko hi aana para.

With such absurd beliefs of yours, you are just implying that Issa (AS) was naozobillah better than Nabi Pak (saw).

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I do not come here to win debates or anything like that. I’m a seeker after truth. And alhamdulillah i’m very satisfied with what i’m on, and that is the true teachings of Islam. You are more than welcome to disagree to that.. I wouldn’t really care.

Ibn Sadique, writing paragraphs after paragraphs is not going to help you. It’s a pity to see that after how much we have talked about on various issues, you have not learnt a single thing. But thats not something that surprises me.

You seem to be very interested in jamaat e ahmadiyya. Why don’t you open another thread and I shall answer you to whatever question you have.

This always makes me laugh. You know why? Because it is your ‘claim’ that you are on the faith that Muhammad PBUH preached and practiced. Heck, if it was same, we wouldnt be seeing numerous sects of Islam, we wouldnt be seeing numerous tafaseer of Quran, we wouldnt be seeing scholars declaring other sects of Islam as kafirs etc. What faith do you talk about ? the faith that Muhammad PBUH said will one day go up to skies ? the faith whose scholars have been called the worst creatures under the heaven ? the faith who Muhammad PBUH foretold whose followers will be just like jews ?

Now, lets talk about what you just stated above. Nothing more can be added and nothing can be subtracted. Ok fair enough. It’s easy to say this isnt it ? Since you have already decided what Islam is, anyone..even Jesus a.s will be called heretic and liar if he was to come and tell you the correct meaning of Islam. Anyone who does not come in conformity with the so called Islam of Mullahs will be called a liar. Who is saying anyone can come and ‘add’ or ‘subtract’ anything from Quran ? You must be kidding me ! People like you who have always been the rejecter of prophets.. people who have too much pride on what their forefathers have been on.

let alone me trusting you. You cant even trust yourself when you say that you will correct your belief where you went wrong if Jesus tells you to. Your heart has been sealed. You CANNOT CANNOT let a prophet come who will teach you correct interpretation of Quran and ahadith since you have already made your own understanding of Islam, anyone telling you anything else will be considered heretic by people like you. Think about it.

lol, Ibn Sadique.. seriously, is this the best you could come up with ? I will try not write too much on it.

  1. I have no problem checking up on His beliefs. His beliefs are of Islam. Yes, he taught us all the true meaning of Quranic verses and ahadith which we differed in.. and yes, as stated above, you cannot accept that due to your pride on what you’re on.

  2. Believing on a false prophet is NOT a sin ( IF and only IF he is, nauzubillah ). Quran is full of people and nations on whom Allah sent wrath for not believing on his prophet. Can you tell me if theres any punishment from Allah for believing in a prophet who says im in complete subordinate of the prophet prior to him, and even if hes false ? what is the punishment for his followers ? increase in numbers ? Having Allah’s help everywhere ? Giving victory to the followers ? the mission getting every corner of the Earth ?

  3. the moment you talk about Hz Ahmad (as), you are indirectly admitting a prophet CAN come, but he is not the one. In that case, we come to the same aqeedah, only problem now is the recognition of the person.. no problem with the aqeedah then right?

as far as the signature goes.. act upon it too. See what you believe :slight_smile:

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Just like you everyone has same stance like you –

Just like you no one really cares.

My interest in jamaat e ahmadiyya is limited to its deviousness only, nothing more nothing less.

Thanks for the offer, if ever I need to ask anything about jamaat e ahmadiyya I know where to turn for ‘help’.

It is intrinsic human nature to disagree and have disputes helped on by Shaytaan. This is confirmed by Quran and hadith.
*
Ironically, they broke up into sects only after the knowledge had come to them, due to jealousy and resentment among themselves. If it were not for a predetermined decision from your Lord to respite them for a definite interim, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the later generations who inherited the scripture are full of doubts.*** [42:14]**
*
“The Jews were divided into seventy-one sects, one of which is in Paradise and seventy are in the Fire. The Christians were divided into seventy-two sects, seventy-one of which are in the Fire and one is in Paradise. By the One in Whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, my Ummah will be divided into seventy-three sects, one of which will be in Paradise and seventy-two will be in the Fire.” It was said, O Messenger of Allaah, who are they? He said, “Al-Jamaa’ah.*” Sunan Ibn Maajah, no. 3982.

Moreover the Blessed Prophet (saw) has warned his Ummah to be aware of any despicable opportunist charlatan fraudster claiming to be a prophet from Allah Almighty as the Blessed Prophet Muhammad (saw) was the last Prophet. Anyone laying claim to prophet hood will be worst creatures under the heavens.

How wrong you are! It is not me who has decided what Islam is:

Islam is confined in Quran and the Sunnah of the Blessed Prophet Muhammad (saw). I had stated the same before.

Hz. Isa Ibn Maryum (as) will follow the same criteria.

People like me have been rejecters of FALSE PROPHETS – Alhamdulilah for that.

I do agree with you that my heart is sealed – Shocking for you?

It is sealed against all the false prophets and wannabe mahdis. Alhamdililah for that.

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It’s not my pride but the Grace and magnanimity of Allah Almighty that He has provided me with enough knowledge to be aware of false prophets and wannabe mahdis. Alhmadulilah for that.

How to punish false prophets and his followers is Allah Almighty’s prerogative – He will deal as He pleases.

a) Increase in numbers? Your erstwhile khalifah had claimed 200 Million strong Ahmadis worldwide in 2003!!!

His successor claims 70 Million!!! lol

You said increase in numbers? You just lost 130 Million!!! Lool at your Khalifahs – Is this what you call:

So Allah Almighty helped you guys LOSE 130 Millions in matter of 5 years!!! Incredible progress in reverse gear.

See the link below: lol

The 200 Million Figure - wiki

• 1993 - 204,308
• 1994 - 421,753
• 1995 - 847,725
• 1996 - 1,602,721
• 1997 - 3,004,575
• 1998 - 5,004,591
• 1999 - 10,820,226
• 2000 - 41,308,376
• 2001 - 81,007,631
• 2002 - 20,654,000

How many are out there, really! » ahmedi.org | ahmedi.org

Mirza Tahir Ahmad died in 2003

Date of interview June 14, 2008

http://alislam.org/khilafat/fifth/preaching%20peace.pdf

Be honest tell how many are there? Let’s settle for 10 million? We can’t trust Ahmadi leaders, they are just throwing figures around. Plucking from thin air.

b) Your Khaleefahs are guests of Head of Church of England (The British Queen) – the same very people Mirza Ghulam Ahmad had claimed to have destroyed now his jamaat is under their protection!!!

I am directly and adamantly admitting Mirza Ghulam Ahmad to be a false prophet and wannabe mahdi.

I just saw the lies uttered for the number of followers – If they can say that; they can say anything!!!

I am going to use your signature again.

I saw the figure 200 million –** I don’t believe It **

See what you believe! I saw massive fraud and shameful manipulation of figures – Liars

If this is the standard of the leadership - one can see the quality of the followers - Embarrassingly funny