Ya Sahib-e-azman (a.s) adrikni
Mairay gunnah to bht hain but mai phir b chahta hu k Imam mehdi k sath hu.
Re: What if...
As Salam Alaykum Warahmatullah Wabarakatahu,
I did my research and found out that this Verse of Chapter Al-Nisa says that those who obey Allah (swt) and his Messenger (saw) shall become righteous, martyrers, pious, prophets. This shows that a follower of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw) can become a Prophet. There is no discussion about Life or Death of any person but achieving the status in obedience of Allah and the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw).
Re: What if...
salam
ok, so what did your research involve? i want to know the sources and people involved if possible
are you ready to give a more thorough interpretation of the verse?
from what i can gather is you are interpretating as "whoso obeys Allah SWT and his Messenger SAW will be righteous, martyrs, truthfulls, prophets"
but since youve researched it please give your own interpretation/translation
Re: What if…
Bigboi – sorry to say your so-called research is a self-serving devious fraud.
You are referring to verse (ayah) of Surah An-Nisa, right?
Below is Transliteration of the said verse:
Waman yutiAAi Allaha waalrrasoola faola-ika maAAa allatheena anAAama Allahu AAalayhim mina alnnabiyyeena waalssiddeeqeena waalshshuhada-i waalssaliheena wahasuna ola-ika rafeeqan -Transliteration
The Arabic word “maAAa” (highlighted in red above) – means – “with” or “among” but never in your wildest dreams can mean. “shall become”!?!
Below are few of most popular translations of the ayah 4:69
For, all who pay heed unto God and the Apostle shall be among those upon whom God has bestowed His blessings: the prophets, and those who never deviated from the truth, and those who [with their lives] bore witness to the truth, and the righteous ones: and how goodly a company are these! **Muhammad Asad **
Whoso obeyeth Allah and the messenger, they are with those unto whom Allah hath shown favour, of the prophets and the saints and the martyrs and the righteous. The best of company are they!** M. M. Pickthall**
And whoever obeys Allah and the Messenger, these are with those upon whom Allah has bestowed favors from among the prophets and the truthful and the martyrs and the good, and a goodly company are they!** Shakir**
All who obey Allah and the messenger are in the company of those on whom is the Grace of Allah,- of the prophets (who teach), the sincere (lovers of Truth), the witnesses (who testify), and the Righteous (who do good): Ah! what a beautiful fellowship! Yusuf Ali
For good measure I am including the translation of** Ahmadi/Qadiani** ‘scholar’
And whoso obeys ALLAH and this Messenger shall be among those on whom ALLAH has bestowed HIS blessings - the Prophets, the Truthful, the Martyrs, and the Righteous. And an excellent company are they. Sher Ali
Guess what? He has debunked your so-called fraudulent research and has translated the Arabic word “maAAa” as “shall be among” or “are with” - thus concurring with all other translators.
Your research? My foot!
Read the footnotes 629 and 630 in the link given below and see how your so-called scholar (Sher Ali) twists and stretches the word “maAAa” to arrive at devious conclusions – Hey! Your research seems to similar to him!
Bigboi – Please pay heed to the respected Lady’s wish – open another thread to broadcast your research 
Re: What if...
Peace All
Without getting in to the debate here ... To answer the main topic ... Will I adjust my beliefs?
I agree with Bao Bihari and Ibn Sadique
First of all we each have a duty to understand the signs of the coming of the Mahdi carefully ...
Second we can align with the majority of scholars of today ...
Thirdly we can align with the majority of the scholars when Imam Mahdi comes ...
Once we align with the scholars we effectively make aligning our beliefs to Mahdi a lot easier ... In this day the majority opinion is that he has not been seen as the Mahdi yet ... although he may be alive. Ma Mooli you are making it out as if it will be a difficult decision - it will not be a difficult decision because I can expect droves of people accepting him ... when he does arrive.
Here is crude example:
When we vote in our home countries for political parties we search for their policies ... However, when they are in power we support them in their decisions even if we differ from them ... I can't imagine the Mahdi will require us to follow him in every little detail ... I can however imagine the Mahdi being like the best of the scholars of today ... who are ready to embrace people with little differences and guide them softly in areas of concern ...
We need to remember the Mahdi will unify us ... the way he will do that is NOT by asking all of us to become the same in every little detail ...
Re: What if…
I wonder if people at all are wiling to accept the fact that islam was derailed by mullahs put in place by malaks and sultans etc to suit themselves. It suited rulers if islamic rule was pushed aside to leave clear field for them to play as they like by putting in place the rules, the concepts, the systems, the structures and practices that suited them.
by instilling idea of mahdi in the sense they did they misdirected attention of ummat away from themselves. Otherwise every day people would have questioned these people as to what authority they had to rule over others. So mahdies would have arisen by the tonnes. The original concepts have been replaced by false concepts. This is why ummah is the way we see it waiting for saviours instead of saving itself.
Why Iqbal Lahori is more popular in Iran than in Pakistan - YouTube
Kalam-e-Iqbal by Iqbal bano - Har cheez hai Mehv-e-Khud Numai (Baal-e-Jibreel Ghazal #31) - YouTube
Re: What if…
Instead of conveying me your salam you use a nasty language against me. This is how the true believers of Islam debate? To be exact, My foot! Did the Prophet (saw) say to the Meccan Ciefs who were monsters, “My Foot” when he adressed them? You read the Qur’an? A ignorant - in this case me - is adressing you. How are you supposed to adress me? According to the Quran in a dignified manner, right? What else you should have done? conveyed a salam! Did you?
Leave that, ok let’s say among or with, did Abu Bakr (ra) not become a Siddique in his lifetime? Was he not with the Siddique?
Re: What if…
we are not waiting, the mahdi will revive Islam, and what will happen is an important war. there is negatives regarding us, the current ummat, in that statement but for you to acknowledge that you must acknowledge that the Prophet SAW and his companions RA fought in the cause of Allah Subhanahu wa ta’ala
also the qualities of the mahdi have always been expected of Muslims and especially Muslim Rulers, so no deflection has taken place because of this belief. to appreciate why deflection has taken place you will need to come study mainstream Islam. at the moment there is a great divide between our understandings
btw the reason iranians use iqbals work more is because they are looking for words of wisedoms. short and emotional is perfect for them, we have something better - the Quran , so we have less need for iqbals work
there is a personal question i would like to ask you - what religion are/were your parents?
Re: What if...
Instead of conveying me your salam you use a nasty language against me. This is how the true believers of Islam debate? To be exact, My foot! Did the Prophet (saw) say to the Meccan Ciefs who were monsters, "My Foot" when he adressed them? You read the Qur'an? A ignorant - in this case me - is adressing you. How are you supposed to adress me? According to the Quran in a dignified manner, right? What else you should have done? conveyed a salam! Did you?
**
Bigboi** – I did not use nasty language against you as a person. It was clearly directed at your ‘research’ and your unwarrantable and reprehensible translation of the ayah of the Blessed Quran. Anyone who has elementary knowledge of Arabic language will know that you were miles away from the true translation of the said word. If this was done deliberately then it unpardonable and if it was done due lack of knowledge of Arabic then you should refrain from dabbling with”Words of Allah”. And you passed it off as your "research"!!!!!!!!
Allah Almighty’s speech is Perfect, I am sure will agree with this. If at all you were doing your “research” you have to also have to refer to the universal translations of that particular ayah or any ayah of the Blessed Quran as general rule. But you had the audacity to translate according to your personal whim. For this you have to fear Allah Almighty.
I showed you various translations and also of your jammat – you were way off from the truth!!
In fact you should be grateful to me for correcting you and you should turn to Allah Almighty and seek His forgiveness for misrepresenting His Word!!.
Leave that, ok let's say among or with, did Abu Bakr (ra) not become a Siddique in his lifetime? Was he not with the Siddique?
Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) without a doubt became a Siddique (Truthful) in his lifetime. And this honour bestowed upon him by none other than Allah Almighty through the Blessed Prophet (peace be upon him). But he never became a Prophet or claimed to be one!!!!
And he was with Al-Siddique (Title of the Blessed Prophet (peace be upon him) meaning the Siddique who in his truthfulness is: - incomparable paramount, peerless, supreme, surpassing, ultimate, unequalled, unmatchable, unrivalled, unsurpassable, unsurpassed. (I hope you know why and where 'Al' is used in Arabic language.)
After Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) no one but only a liar can lay to claim prophet hood in any form or disguise.
I wish you Peace.
Re: What if...
What does research mean? I searched for the meaning and found what I found. Pardon me, if I was wrong. You are making such a a big deal of it to be honest. I'm ignorant. Your job is to say salam and teach me if you know better.
Anyway, in this Ayaa, the company of Prophets is mentioned. So you can become only righteous, martyrers and saints, but not a Prophet? Why are Prophets mentioned then? If I believe what you say and follow it, logically the mention of Prophets should have been left out. Please explain.
Re: What if...
What does research mean? I searched for the meaning and found what I found. Pardon me, if I was wrong. You are making such a a big deal of it to be honest. I'm ignorant. Your job is to say salam and teach me if you know better.
Anyway, in this Ayaa, the company of Prophets is mentioned. So you can become only righteous, martyrers and saints, but not a Prophet? Why are Prophets mentioned then? If I believe what you say and follow it, logically the mention of Prophets should have been left out. Please explain.
Peace Bigboi
Verse 69 is saying:
a) Those who obey Allah (SWT) and His Prophet (SAW) ... will be with ...
b) Those who have BEEN blessed ... Who are ...
c) Prophets of before, truthful ones of before, the martyrs of before and the righteous ones of before ...
The key is to look at the verb ... Have been blessed by Allah ... An'amaAllahu .... This is past tense ... To find out what the word ma'aa means here you need to understand how people will be raised in Aakhira ... They will be grouped ...
So there are the group of the obedient to Allah (SWT) and His Prophet (SAW) ... The subdivisions of which has not been talked about ... Will be with the groups mentioned above.
... But the Truthful, Martyrs and Righteous from THIS Ummah are already included in the term (Those who obey Allah (SWT) and His Prophet (SAW)) ... So the criteria for us is to be obedient to Allah (SWT) and His Prophet (SAW) ... It means rather this verse is confirming that for remaining time there will be no more prophets ... Because the remaining people have to obey "His Prophet" (SAW) in order to be grouped with those prophets of the past.
If there had been the chance of another prophet then this verse would not have stated Obedience to RasoolAllah (SAW) because that notion infers other prophets cannot be grouped in their own merit ... Like they were before ... The condition that is necessary from now on is obedience to both Allah (SWT) and His Prophet (SAW) ... And His Prophet did also say that there will be no more prophets ... may Allah (SWT) bless all of the true prophets. So being obedient to him (SAW) means accepting that statement too.
In addition this verse adds to the idea that the ummati of the Prophet (SAW) has a prophetic role ... Existentially we give dawah like the prophets did ... And eternally we are inshaAllah rewarded like the prophets of the past generations ... Due to the rank of our Prophet (SAW) ...
Re: What if...
As Salam Alaykum Warahmatullah Wabarakatahu,
Brother psyah, without offending you, do you know and read what you write? Can you please explain it to me in a simple language what you mean. I have understood nothing.
From what I conclude, no one can become righteous, a saint or a martyrer, is this right? I understand nothing. Subdivisons, past, before, grouped etc.
why are you making this verse so complicated, even though it is crystal clear or I don't understand what you mean. Please explain it to me. Your explanation is not satisfying me. I want to follow the right path. You have to help me.
What is this, another groups cannot be grouped not be grouped in their own merit? Where does this ayaa say that no more Prophets can come? If this is so, then no sainst can come, there ar no righteous people and no martyrers. Please help.
Re: What if...
As Salam Alaykum Warahmatullah Wabarakatahu,
Brother psyah, without offending you, do you know and read what you write? Can you please explain it to me in a simple language what you mean. I have understood nothing.
From what I conclude, no one can become righteous, a saint or a martyrer, is this right? I understand nothing. Subdivisons, past, before, grouped etc.
why are you making this verse so complicated, even though it is crystal clear or I don't understand what you mean. Please explain it to me. Your explanation is not satisfying me. I want to follow the right path. You have to help me.
What is this, another groups cannot be grouped not be grouped in their own merit? Where does this ayaa say that no more Prophets can come? If this is so, then no sainst can come, there ar no righteous people and no martyrers. Please help.
Peace Bigboi
After reading that response I know that I cannot help you ...
Perhaps if you give me your contentions one at a time and I will use logic notation to explain. InshaAllah ... may Allah (SWT) guide us ...
let me ask you a question ... How many groups of people are there in that verse?
Re: What if...
There are 4 groups mentioned. If you obey Allah and his Messenger (saw) , you will be among them! Correct?
Re: What if…
**Bigboi **– Poor you, now you are playing a victim as if I have really hurt you sensitive feelings.
You are playing as an innocent chap who just ‘presented’ his recent ‘research’ and got wrong end of the stick from me.
You cannot hide behind this pretentious victim playing drama. Your views are well known on this board and what you represent. (And you have the full right to hold the views that you have).
Your ‘search’ or ‘research’ and your conclusions from it aren’t that innocent as you are pretending it to be.
Very sneakily you were pushing forward views of Ahmadi/Qadiani Jamaat.
The Ahmadi/Qadiani belief is that any person who follows Prophet Muhammad (saw) in complete sincerity can attain rank of the Prophet Hood.
You can read the comment of Sher Ali eminent Ahmadi/Qadiani scholar who was written in detail in the following link:
I have extracted the following paragraph. It is worth reading the full commentary on the ayah - it is justifying the claims of the pretender to the prophet hood!!!
You sir, were pushing the same agenda. It was neither a ‘search’ nor a ‘research form your part.
You are pretending to be ignorant who is willing to learn. But you so rudely dismissed such an excellent post by brother psyah to explain the ayah to you. That was a gem of a post. (May Allah Almighty reward him immensely for it.)
When one’s mind is already made up what one wants to believe in then the ears are plugged with fingers, eyes are shut tight and mind is closed – Even if the message is most plain and simple, will one understand it? Never, because there is no will to understand.
“deaf, they do not listen to or hear the truth; dumb, they do not speak the truth; blind, they do not see what the truth is nor do they see by the truth”.
Peace be upon him, he who follows the right path
Respected sister Ma Mooli :flower1: – Salaam My apologies it seems like your thread has been hi-jacked despite your protests :teary1:.
Just bear it – I can see the thread crashing down soon .
Re: What if…
As Salam Alaykum Warahmatullah Wabarakatahu,
Poor you - who pierced a spear through my body, opened it, took my heart and saw my intentions. Poor you, Son of Sadique/Siddique.
What does research mean? I have not only put the beliefs of our Jamaat-e-Ahmadiyya foward, but also presented the opinions of different scholars. One is Maulana Rumi who said “trouble” yourself on the path good, so that you may receive Prophethood, but you are right, the deaf and the blind will not hear, will not see.
You call twisting and turning a excellent post?
Psyah wrote this:
c) Prophets of before, truthful ones of before, the martyrs of before and the righteous ones of before …
The key is to look at the verb … Have been blessed by Allah … An’amaAllahu … This is past tense … To find out what the word ma’aa means here you need to understand how people will be raised in Aakhira … They will be grouped …
So there are the group of the obedient to Allah (SWT) and His Prophet (SAW) … The subdivisions of which has not been talked about … Will be with the groups mentioned above.
… But the Truthful, Martyrs and Righteous from THIS Ummah are already included in the term (Those who obey Allah (SWT) and His Prophet (SAW)) … So the criteria for us is to be obedient to Allah (SWT) and His Prophet (SAW) … It means rather this verse is confirming that for remaining time there will be no more prophets … Because the remaining people have to obey “His Prophet” (SAW) in order to be grouped with those prophets of the past.
what does this mean, in a simple language please. There are 4 groups mentioned. When you obey Allah and his Prophet (saw) you will be among them.
When someone wants to help, he helps. When someone doesn’t want to help, he accuses. People like you are a reason that people like me lose their Religion. I salute you.
Re: What if...
As Salam Alaykum Warahmatullah Wabarakatahu,
......
what does this mean, in a simple language please. There are 4 groups mentioned. When you obey Allah and his Prophet (saw) you will be among them.
When someone wants to help, he helps. When someone doesn't want to help, he accuses. People like you are a reason that people like me lose their Religion. I salute you.
Peace Bigboi
No there are not four groups of people, look below it is how you use logic notation to breakdown the verse ...
Level 1: (2 Groups)
A) The people of association (i.e. from all people after the verse was revealed) - Arabic {Fa Uolaaika Ma'aa}
B) The people who were favoured. - Arabic {Allazdeena An'ama}
*Level 2A): (Silent on Subgroup except they all should share one characteristic)
*
All of them are *Obedient to Allah and the Messenger
**Level 2B): (4 Sub-Groups)
** >> 1)*Prophets
2)*Truth Affirmers
3)*The Martyrs
4)*The Righteous
So the only thing the verse is saying is that we can be grouped or associated with people from 2B, but only if we are obedient to Allah and His Messenger ...
**
Out of the people who are Obedient to Allah and the Messenger which can ALSO be from the subgroups above?
**Truth Affirmers? yes - Martyrs? yes - Righteous? yes
BUT Prophets? No ... why? It is because a prophet is never required to be obedient to another prophet - A prophet is directly required to report to Allah (SWT) only ...
Isa (AS) will be a follower of RasoolAllah (SAW) whilst maintaining his (AS) title of prophethood.
Since the 'prophets' subgroup is in the B category - it directly states these are people of the PAST ... It confirms the belief of the mission of RasoolAllah (SAW) that he was sent to the whole of mankind, Jinn for all time ...
**
The fifth category *- count the blue text items - *is "Those obedient to Allah and His Messenger" ...and that is the category applicable to us.
**
Re: What if...
Poor you - who pierced a spear through my body, opened it, took my heart and saw my intentions. Poor you, Son of Sadique/Siddique.
Peace be upon him, he who follows the right path
Bigboi – we live in modern times so no need to use a spear :); an ultrasound scan is a painless and gives accurate results. This post (No. 56) of yours has confirmed the result is positive.
When someone wants to help, he helps. When someone doesn't want to help, he accuses. People like you are a reason that people like me lose their Religion. I salute you.
There are some in this world who keep shouting “Help me!” “I need someone to help me!” but in reality doesn’t need any help but just want to get attention to himself. And when approached by others to lend him a hand he shows his true colours and owns up that he is just selling second hand merchandise.
Your salutations accepted, if you really have lost your religion then leave Rumi and others (who believe that there could be a legitimate Prophet after Prophet Muhammad (saw)) alone; and follow Islam in its Pristine form and I guarantee you that you will guard it very jealously and never lose it. Guaranteed!
I say no more on this hijacked thread.
Re: What if...
assalamalaikum
looks like a war going on here.
well carry on hopefully you will come to a conclusion soon.
well one misinterpreted quote from a very very beautiful hadith of my beloved prophet s.a.w is prickin in my eye.
PSYAH
the signature of yours which states that:
The Prophet (SAW ) said:
" I am leaving you two things
and you will never go astray as
long as you cling to them - -
they are the Book of Allah and
my Sunnah. " [Reported by Al-
Haakim - Sahih].
this is probably wrongly interpreted...you can open any sahih hadees and read instead of "sunnah" you'll find "ahle bait".
and that beautiful hadees itself is a direct command for every believer to follow imam mahdi (since he belongs to ahle bait) that very hadees quoted by you explains alot of matters so please correct it or else whoever reads it might shed away from the actual words of our beloved prophet s.a.w..
Re: What if...
Peace Bigboi
No there are not four groups of people, look below it is how you use logic notation to breakdown the verse ...
Level 1: (2 Groups)
A) The people of association (i.e. from all people after the verse was revealed) - Arabic {Fa Uolaaika Ma'aa} B) The people who were favoured. - Arabic {Allazdeena An'ama}
*Level 2A): (Silent on Subgroup except they all should share one characteristic) *
All of them are *Obedient to Allah and the Messenger
**Level 2B): (4 Sub-Groups)
** >> 1)*Prophets
2)*Truth Affirmers 3)*The Martyrs 4)*The Righteous
So the only thing the verse is saying is that we can be grouped or associated with people from 2B, but only if we are obedient to Allah and His Messenger ... ** Out of the people who are Obedient to Allah and the Messenger which can ALSO be from the subgroups above?
**Truth Affirmers? yes - Martyrs? yes - Righteous? yes
BUT Prophets? No ... why? It is because a prophet is never required to be obedient to another prophet - A prophet is directly required to report to Allah (SWT) only ...
Isa (AS) will be a follower of RasoolAllah (SAW) whilst maintaining his (AS) title of prophethood.
Since the 'prophets' subgroup is in the B category - it directly states these are people of the PAST ... It confirms the belief of the mission of RasoolAllah (SAW) that he was sent to the whole of mankind, Jinn for all time ... ** The fifth category *- count the blue text items - *is "Those obedient to Allah and His Messenger" ...and that is the category applicable to us. **
**BUT Prophets? No ... why? It is because a prophet is never required to be obedient to another prophet - A prophet is directly required to report to Allah (SWT) only ...
Isa (AS) will be a follower of RasoolAllah (SAW) whilst maintaining his (AS) title of prophethood.**
to whom does this make sense? Isa will be a follower of Muhammad (saw) > i.e. obedient, but at the same time a Prophet is never obedient to a Prophet. What is with Aron (as) and Musa (as). Was Aron (as) not Prophet as well and obedient to Musa (as)?
I do not know to whom you make sense. Feel free to answer.
Ibn Sadqiue, the likes of you have convinced me in my Path. I first thank Allah (swt) and people like you. I choose logic over madness. You should write a Thesis about this in fact crystal clear Verse which says that you will be among the 4 groups, so in the end meaning that you can become a Prophet. I do not know what you and Psyah have done with such a simple verse confirming what Jamaat-e-Ahmadiyya says, that there can be Prophets. This is crystal clear. Don't need to twist and turn it around.
I do not know to who it makes sense what you have written, there must be many. I pray for you and them. May Allah guide you.
Logo Sunno, The Ummat of Muhammad (saw) can't have Prophets after him, but the Ummat of Musa (as) saw so many Prophets after him. Logo Sunno, A Prophet is not obedient to a Prophet, but the Israelite Prophet Isa (as) will be a follower of Muhammad (saw) and maintain the Title of Prophethood. Logo Sunno.
I won't log in for awhile, I'm done here.