i so hear you every time i mention it i am called a gay basher. although i think thats how hitler worked, tell a lie, keep it simple and repeat it often.
Actually, I;ve known more than a few homosexual people. And the very vast majority of them felt that they were "born that way". From a very early age, they knew they were different. And even though science has not yet found a genetic link to homosexuality, that doesnt mean its not there....the human brain is the most complex and not-yet-understood organism on the planet.
If you can imagine this....you are a guy and you see a stunning woman walk into the room. It evokes a certain response. WHAT if you could not evoke that response unless it was a stunning GUY walking into the room? (And vice=versa if you're a gal)
The jury is still very much out on whether its genetic or not. Until DNA mapping is complete, it will remain so. Yet, it makes sense to me that theres something wrong in the wiring of the brain of homosexuals. Because something that cannot change is what a certain person feels attracted to. Sure, you can force a homosexually-oriented person to marry and procreate. Will they ever be truly comfortable and happy with that? Sadly, its not likely. Same with pedophiles. They are attracted to children and always will be. The only solution to it is castration.
So to say that you'd seclude your child or force them into a heterosexual relationship is really avoiding the issue imho.
NO one in their right mind would choose to be homosexual. But if thats what they ARE and they can't help it, so be it. If its a problem for them, they can seek out chemical castration. If its not, they can live the homo-lifestyle. If it were my child, I'd surely not be happy about it at all. But I'd never turn my child away.
hmm that is a matter of perspective. to some like me i would say brian indeed is a very complex organ and there is no accounting for what a person might believe if they are bent on believing it. although i am sort of relieved to hear that few people here are not molding scientific research to their perspective. as far as the scientific evidence goes it is still far from certain. Just for discussion what would you think of bisexuals? there are many homosexuals that are bewildered by occassional hetero urges that they feel?
Re: what if ur own kid turns out to be ...
Croquet, my take on the whole thing is that any kind of abnormal sexual inclinations are in the realm of psychiatric illness. Something is wrong in the brain somewhere. And no one knows the exact cause(s) yet but the fact that its abnormal behavior cant be denied. There is nothing wrong in seeking the answers to these questions in a scientific way. Because once the cause(s) are understood, perhaps a cure can follow.
Re: what if ur own kid turns out to be ...
There is nothing anyone can do if kids turn out to be 'strong 'gay lesbian. But there is less chance of them being strong gay lesbians if they are brought up in healthy religious environment.
Not too strict that they rebel. No too open that they try!
Its a psychologic disease and completely identical twins may be opposite in their behavior. One hetero and other homo.
Moreover it does not run in the family as a genetic disease would.
Sky will not fall if a gay told to try to change the attitude. Gays and lesbians just make a big deal about it and being vocal about it so much that it has become a fasion' to consider them 'normal '
Examples of gay men married to women or lesbians marrid to men are there and they still are living happily and raising their 'normal' kids. Its the unusual and psychologically deranged people who just are talked about and people start thinking oh no., poor girl married to a gay man. or poor guy married to a lesbian. (some men may like that anyway-wink)
Its just a matter of blowing out of proportion. Off course she must be told by the man before marriage and he should decide not to even marry a girl if he feels so strongly.
As it is many hetero people lose interest after marriage. They live happily and raise their kids together. Sky still does not fall.
**
Majbori Bhi Insaan Ko “Gay” Bana Deti Hai <<<**
Re: what if ur own kid turns out to be ...
Well from what i know, what i can do as a muslim is that give my child a secure environment, Quran/Religious knowledge and nurture him good...be as close to him/her as possible so that he can be open and comfortable enough to open up but not so close that he forgets to respect me as a parent completely...i can just try to teach him good..the difference between the good and the bad and make sure that he knows how to differenciate between the good and bad and trust him but just try to keep an eye on him and have some knowledge about whom he hangs out with etc..even when i am not there and INSHALLAH i will have open minded yet God fearing bachas..AAMEEEN, SUMAAMEEN! when i get married..and have babies.
To be very honest, this thought kills me already..every single day. I don't mind others who chose this way..its their life i don't even think about them when i see two gays or lesbians but i don't want my kids that way...
Not too strict that they rebel. No too open that they try!
That is a very THIN line which is also very individual for each kid's personally. i don't think their is a set formula for this.
You can try your best and pray!
That is a very THIN line which is also very individual for each kid's personally. i don't think their is a set formula for this.
You can try your best and pray!
Yes.:)
Re: what if ur own kid turns out to be ...
Three step protection measures from homosexuality:
1) Mother should be soft and Father should be too but Father should be the one shedding the most stern discipline whilst mother can deal with conscience related fodder.
2) Teach the natural order of things and utilise bad and good with respect to symbolism of animal traits
3) Guard yourselves and teach children to guard themselves with respect to the acts of illegal illicit activity of any kind. Protect taboos so people will not find worse things to indulge in and be weary that everyone is afflicted to some degree to evil thoughts some more than others to certain kinds of thoughts. Learn how to control them.
Remember the ACT is a sin ... so if there is a tendency towards this act seek protection from this tendency.
Croquet, my take on the whole thing is that any kind of abnormal sexual inclinations are in the realm of psychiatric illness. Something is wrong in the brain somewhere. And no one knows the exact cause(s) yet but the fact that its abnormal behavior cant be denied. There is nothing wrong in seeking the answers to these questions in a scientific way. Because once the cause(s) are understood, perhaps a cure can follow.
that is interesting . a couple very close to me had a problem. The guy was physically alright and healthy but for some reason would not perform healthy(sexually). He went through treatment and was declared healthy yet was consistently diagnosed of psychiatric fear. Trouble was before his marriage (he was a virgin till marriage and got married in 30s i think) due to repressing the feelings the body was not performing as well. Although he got married he just had the subconscious fear that he would not be able to have sex and due that paranoia he was unable to actually respond. Doctors (he consulted a herd of them) were dead sure that the problem was psychiatric rather than biological.
To me homosexuality or the trouble with declaring it legal is that while adolescence is alread going through alot of anxiety this is an unneccessary burden. now some of them fear of being gay and due to that fear are unable to react appropraitely and for others they have a tendency to be attracted to same sex. Although so far what i have read on the matter makes me believe sexual urges are strongly linked to the mental perceptions meaning if you fear or believe that you are gay you will find yourself gay.
Re: what if ur own kid turns out to be ...
so.....I have a cousin first cousin my chacha's kid. he is 6 years old. he has 3 sisters in addition to us cousins. This kid wants to do EVERYTHING with the girls. He wants to wear make-up dress in girl's clothes and hang out with the girls play with dolls watch Barbie cartoons etc.. his father is worried he might be gay when he grows up. they try to get him into playing sports like cricket with his brother, but he just runs away to sit with the girls dance to songs etc... even if he sings a song he sings the girl part. Clearly these are early signs of gender identity disorder (he also likes to refer to himselfe as 'jati hon, karti hon etc" what can someone do at that stage? It seems he's just wired wrong or something... he was raised the same way as his brother it just seems strange that he is this way....
so.....I have a cousin first cousin my chacha's kid. he is 6 years old. he has 3 sisters in addition to us cousins. This kid wants to do EVERYTHING with the girls. He wants to wear make-up dress in girl's clothes and hang out with the girls play with dolls watch Barbie cartoons etc.. his father is worried he might be gay when he grows up. they try to get him into playing sports like cricket with his brother, but he just runs away to sit with the girls dance to songs etc... even if he sings a song he sings the girl part. Clearly these are early signs of gender identity disorder (he also likes to refer to himselfe as 'jati hon, karti hon etc" what can someone do at that stage? It seems he's just wired wrong or something... he was raised the same way as his brother it just seems strange that he is this way....
Not so uncommon in a family of more girls than boys.
He is somewhat older though. Many kids do that at much younger age.
Even though it appears a bit late for his father to realize if it is just recently he noticed but a gentle approach is going to help.
He maybe more receptive than his brother. Assuming he has no physical problem.
Possible solutions:
Just give him boys company and keep him away from girls as much as possible. He is picking up their language and actions which he is not to be blamed for.
Keep correcting his words and encourage him to make boys as friends.
Just keep the girls away from him without being obvious.
Re: what if ur own kid turns out to be ...
Mamaof3 - "So what is the difference between a genetic abnormality and a mental illness? "
Genetics/genes control our physical make up, the blueprints which are used to create/reproduce the physical characteristics of different parts of our bodies.
*Genetic abnormality - * is a physical difference in genetic material which results in that persons physical ability/appeareance to be different from so called 'normal' people.
Mental illness - not as easy to explain logically as nothing much is known about its physical working but the way i look at it is that genes are a source of information, set in stone, they continue producing the same 'normalities' or 'abnormailities' from birth until the end. The brain on the other hand is the direct opposite in its function, it's capable of absorbing, storing & processing information which it gathers throughout the animals lifetime. when the brain goes wrong, its not because the genes that control the makeup of the brain have changed, mental illness covers a wide range of defects which are bought around by different causes i.e heavy blow to frontal area of head causes some people to act without remorse for their victims, age affects memory, over working the brain causes mental breakdown, longterm pain leads to negative thinking which leads to depression....... non of this is down to genetic abnormalities as mental illness happens at various times in different peoples lives (& we know our dna does not change with time). It can be treated via therapy ect whereas genetic abnormalities can't, as far as that body is concerned the 'abnormalities' are not defects but are how its genes intented it to be.
"And where in the Koran can you support your view on this matter?"
To be honest sis its been many years since i last even looked at the quran, it's only been a year or so since i started getting interested in religion again after a very long time, lets say on holiday from the 'being from above', i can't quote directly or name verses etc but i do know the basics & my way of life & thinking is similiar to islam, so generally if i agree with something, usually its ok in islam too.........follow logic...follow islam...easy.
Anyway, to be a muslim you must believe that allah made everything including us, hence allah made our genetics, allah also revealed the quran which says that homosexuality is forbidden, therefore logically, to say that homosexuality is genetic, therefore designed & implemented intentionally on a person by allah, who then at the same time forbids that person to operate the way he/she was designed to operate would be a contradiction which islam does not do.
Hence you cant believe that homosexuality is genetically controlled & still believe in islam.
Re: what if ur own kid turns out to be …
Actually, Chacha there are certain genetic abnormalities which are proven to cause homosexuality. These are pretty rare and do not comprise the majority of the homosexual population but they do exist.
Here is one of many links describing some of these genetic abnormalities.
Human Chromosomal Abnormalities:* Sex Chromosome Abnormalities
There are also genetic maladies which cause Un-Islaamic behaviors and sins. A good Muslim should never hurt others, should respect elders, should be good citizens, pray daily. Many of these basic Islaamic requirements cannot be met by some who are genetically impaired yeah? Not much difference here - Islaamic behavior cannot be adhered to iin some with genetic abnormalities.
And btw, dont you think its kind of a dangerous thing to assume that your “way of thinking” means that all of your ideas and opinions are Islaamically correct? Are you an Islaamic theologian?
^ which one are you refering to? the link says
***There is no evidence that Klinefelter syndrome boys and men are more inclined to be homosexual, but they are more likely to be less interested in sex.
i get that logic but i am far from convinced such an impairment is proven . besides most homosexuals donot fit that criteria, many women choose to be lesbian after having enough of trouble with men. while i can certainly appreciate the sentiment i donot know if it has anything to do with genetic makeup.
Re: what if ur own kid turns out to be ...
Croquet, the issue at hand is a claim that if one beleives that Homosexuality is possibly genetic then that person cannot be a Muslim. I personally think that since the genome is not yet mapped out we cannot make the assumption that its definitely not genetic. I grew up with a Kleinfelter kid and he was a flaming homosexual even in grade school. So if you read more about some of these genetic abnormaladies, you'll see that sex chromosome errors produce homosexuals. But yes, these are far from the majority of homosexuals. However they do exist. Also in existence are people with genetic abnormaladies which prevent them from adhering to even basic Islaamic requirements. So since I accept these genetic problems as a fact of science....I cannot be Muslim????
He has a Brother too, his father and one of our other Chacha's also live in the same house... so for example for Eid, he wanted to get mehndi done so bad with the girls and refused to go the bakra mandi with the boys...like the dad had to drag him out and he was crying the whole time. He also wanted to wear a dupata. It'd be cruel to not let him see his sisters and his mom dude..he's only 6. His brother is only 2 years older and on the cricket team at school. The point is something is off about this kid. But he's only 6 so what can the family do now. Every dawat, Eid or function is a fiasco. The dad threatens him by saying he'll be sent to millitary school, he behaves for a few days and then they find him with churiya on...its like he does not understand why they are stopping him....
Not so uncommon in a family of more girls than boys.
He is somewhat older though. Many kids do that at much younger age.
Even though it appears a bit late for his father to realize if it is just recently he noticed but a gentle approach is going to help.
He maybe more receptive than his brother. Assuming he has no physical problem.
Possible solutions:
Just give him boys company and keep him away from girls as much as possible. He is picking up their language and actions which he is not to be blamed for.
Keep correcting his words and encourage him to make boys as friends.
Just keep the girls away from him without being obvious.
Re: what if ur own kid turns out to be ...
awww the poor little boy. The parents can have a genetic profile/test done to see whether there might be a genetic issue going on here. Some of the genetic maladies can be "treated" with supplements of testosterone.
IDK, I think if he is forced into boys-only seclusion and kept away from girls, it may make him worse. Resentful that he cannot do anything he likes. The family of the Kleinfelter boy in my town did this, they tried everything to make him more manly but nothing worked and he resentfully got even wilder about it all.
Maybe let him mix with girls sometimes and do things he actually enjoys but tone it down to an appropriate level. Let him learn to play an instrument. And learn to dance but to dance like a boy. Let him wear flowing clothes but boys clothes. Instead of painting mehndi on himself, let him paint designs on paper. Taking away everything that he enjoys isnt a good idea but limiting it, toning it down and persuing more boys activities might help...If the parents dedicate themselves, I bet they will find at least one or two boyish activities that he'd enjoy. Maybe swimming? Karate?
Croquet, the issue at hand is a claim that if one beleives that Homosexuality is possibly genetic then that person cannot be a Muslim. I personally think that since the genome is not yet mapped out we cannot make the assumption that its definitely not genetic. I grew up with a Kleinfelter kid and he was a flaming homosexual even in grade school. So if you read more about some of these genetic abnormaladies, you'll see that sex chromosome errors produce homosexuals. But yes, these are far from the majority of homosexuals. However they do exist. Also in existence are people with genetic abnormaladies which prevent them from adhering to even basic Islaamic requirements. So since I accept these genetic problems as a fact of science....I cannot be Muslim????
but mama just because you grew up with a kid who turned out to be homosexual doesnt mean that every kleinfelter kids is genetically programmed to be homosexual. see even the link that you posted says that one doesnot become homosexual because they have double XX along with a Y. The fact is that sexuality is not proven to be controlled by genes why make a claim that it is? now as for they can be muslim or not that is not for me to say. i am not an authority over those issues.from what i seem to remember people sin but sin should be considered a sin if it not considered a sin anymore than there is a problem with social mindset. purely my belief on the matter.