what if ur own kid turns out to be ...

Yes I am firm believer in luck. As for answer to your question. I never had that discussion with my kids. I have two boys and a little girl. I left that kind of education to schools. Public and Islamic.
Once in a while one of sons will blurt out "that is so gay" it tells me that they know it is something twisted. I do not get upset but I tell them it is not good manner to use that kind of language at home. So Alhumdulillah I am happy.
They start sex education in Public school in grade 2 in US I guess. I remember signing papers but do not remember which grade exactly.
From their peers they learn that gay behavior is not liked in society. Because I know for sure that school will not teach them any kind of discrimination.

Re: what if ur own kid turns out to be ...

in mosque guys and girls have their regular meetings (ofcourse separetly with a knowledgable person) where we girls would write down our questions and put it in in this box and our teacher would take out the question... read to us and than they answered it using quranic verses and hadith......so our parents never discussed it at home.....but our mom always educated us abt such things.....

as a parent i am not gona approve such behaviour cuz its is NOT normal at all

Re: what if ur own kid turns out to be ...

Actually, I;ve known more than a few homosexual people. And the very vast majority of them felt that they were "born that way". From a very early age, they knew they were different. And even though science has not yet found a genetic link to homosexuality, that doesnt mean its not there....the human brain is the most complex and not-yet-understood organism on the planet.

If you can imagine this....you are a guy and you see a stunning woman walk into the room. It evokes a certain response. WHAT if you could not evoke that response unless it was a stunning GUY walking into the room? (And vice=versa if you're a gal)

The jury is still very much out on whether its genetic or not. Until DNA mapping is complete, it will remain so. Yet, it makes sense to me that theres something wrong in the wiring of the brain of homosexuals. Because something that cannot change is what a certain person feels attracted to. Sure, you can force a homosexually-oriented person to marry and procreate. Will they ever be truly comfortable and happy with that? Sadly, its not likely. Same with pedophiles. They are attracted to children and always will be. The only solution to it is castration.

So to say that you'd seclude your child or force them into a heterosexual relationship is really avoiding the issue imho.

NO one in their right mind would choose to be homosexual. But if thats what they ARE and they can't help it, so be it. If its a problem for them, they can seek out chemical castration. If its not, they can live the homo-lifestyle. If it were my child, I'd surely not be happy about it at all. But I'd never turn my child away.

Re: what if ur own kid turns out to be ...

you cannot believe that homo/lesbo is genetic & still claim to be a muslim....... that is unless you think that god is worst than the devil & has put the test of all tests upon these people........... cus that would be just plain cruel.
Talk about placing a box of frosted doughnuts infront of 2 cops on a stakeout & telling them to 'keep off'.

Why Allah punished nation of Hazrat Loot? , if they are born that way than why Allah punished them?

we should remember that Quran is a complete book after that we dont need any other researchs to find out if its right or wrong.....

How come Quran and Hadiths never approved such relationships and why didnt they support 'em if they are born with the will of Allah than Allah shouldnt punish them. right

Re: what if ur own kid turns out to be ...

Mamaof3 - although the bodies entire genome may be mapped, it contains tens of thousands of genes which can be paired up/combined in millions/billions of combinations, unless an impossibly huge experiment was carried out involving large numbers of gay & straight people where their entire genetic information was studied & fully understood then it cannot be said that it is scientifically proven that being homosexual is a genetic disorder, because those same genetic conditions maybe found in totally straight people without having any effect on their sexuality & without a large enough experiment (for it to be scientifically proven this means the whole population) results can be interpreted in many ways & are meaningless. And as our DNA is extremely complicated in its make up, humans will never be able to understand the way everything works together nowhere near enough to be able to SCIENTIFICALLY prove anything. Proof means 100% & biology is a study where unlike physics or chemistry, nowhere near of enough of all the factors involved are understood or even discovered yet, they're are parts of the body that exist but we do not know their purpose, the brain which is the control centre is like the deepest parts of the ocean, relatively hardly anything is known of its operation.
[FONT=Times New Roman]Even with the complexity of DNA & the brain which scientist admit, have only scratched the surface with, & are nowhere near understanding the workings of, then how can it be said that anything in our BEHAVIOUR can be PROVEN to be genetic when behaviour is controlled by a combination of genes & to a greater extent our brain which not much is known of.
[FONT=Times New Roman]This cannot be explained by using the comparison of a computer where the software = genetic info & micro processor = brain, in this case the computer is controlled/limited to the software within but in humans its the complete opposite, our genetic makeup controls our physical characteristics & may even have an lesser effect on our behaviour but these effects on behaviour can be easily eliminated by use of mental conditioning/theraphy as our brains are the main power in control over the way we act. And as sexuality is a behaviour & not a physical characteristic, it's cause is likely to be a mental/brain related condition rather than anything to do with genetic differences, which may play a part but only a very small part, the determining factor is most likely found in the brain & as science knows relatively nothing about the brain, then science can prove nothing regarding the cause of homosexuality.
[FONT=Times New Roman]Biology is a work in extremely slow progress, involving many parts which will never be fully understood, hence will never be possible for a human to be able to 'build' another human from scratch using only the simple elements known to man i.e all elements found in the periodic table,
[size=3][FONT=Times New Roman]this would require complete understanding, hence biology is not completely scientific, its a study at best, next you'll be telling me you still believe in evolution which is not only a silly idea but scientifically, completely void of any logic.[/size]

The whole nations accepted and started things which is not acceptable. It is different than individuals who are born different.

Generally we think of gender as male or female only, yet in reality there are kids that are born with both , some or none of the body charactristics of male / female. There are times, when such abnormality is so evident that doctors tell the parents to not to have the baby - because of the difficult life the child will face.
There are cases, when doctors operate on new born baby right away to make them "normal" male or female. If you will do research on this, you will find that this is extremely disturbing part of humans. Similarly, psychological abnormalities can take place as well. Sometime it can be "corrected" (to be accepted in society) other times it can't.

Question is , someone close to you comes with this "issue". You can try all sorts of psychogical / bilogoical "corrections" .... if they don't work. What are you going to do?

prince u r confusing two different things....
we r discussing ppl who r gay n lesb.....but u r talking abt ppl who in pakistan are gall "hijras' i am not exactly sure what is the exact term for those people..... and yeh they are born like that but topic of discussion is not that.....

**Check out the Vote results in the Most liberal State of the Most Modern Country..

California voted No marraige between same sex couples......

Homosexuals consitute only 3% of general Population.......
**

Re: what if ur own kid turns out to be ...

Gay people are not 'born that way'. It has never been scientifically proven.
I was having this discussion the other day with a white christian classmate, she also agreed with me on what I just pointed out.
But to keep it very simple:

WHY **is one of them the 'man' of the relationship and **WHY is the other one the 'woman' of the relationship?
Isn't that nature speaking? And if it was natural, then wouldn't there be gay people since the beginning of the existence of mankind?
If it's natural, why can't you see it within nature itself that there are gay animals? To reproduce, every creature needs a female and male. Without it, it's impossible!

In my opinion, upbringing can play a big part in a child becoming gay. Like it was mentioned before by someone else, as muslims we can atleast tell our children what's right and wrong. And if later in their life, they still decide to stay the way they are... it's their own responsibility.
It's a need, not something that is within you since you were born. In that case you're supposed to fight your nafs on wanting something which is harmful... So that is something which I will insh'Allah definitely explain to my child.

And Ameen to Straight_up's du'a.

P.S.: The majority of 'modern western civilization' wouldn't be too pleased finding this out about their own children.

Re: what if ur own kid turns out to be ...

Until the mystery of the human brain is revealed, no one can say for sure whether its genetic or some kind of miswiring in the brain (which I strongly suspect but cannot be certain of). In the meantime, the phenomenon is here, it will not go away and affects more than a good percentage of properly raised individuals.

To say that belief in a mis-wired brain means that you cannot be a Muslim is (IMHO) WAY off base. You can have your own opinions as to the cause(s) of this particular affliction but to say that one cannot be Muslim (or any other religion) because they beleive in mis-wired brains is plain wrong. God/Allah (as I understand Him) loves ALL his creatures whether they are perfect or not. Why else would there be down;s syndrome and all the other vastly uncountable genetic maladies? Or the propensity to commit violent crime, or ANY of the other uncountable human failures, mistakes, sicknesses etc etc.

anyway, the point of the thread was....will you love your child even if they turn out to be homosexual. My short answer to this is YES.

I think you are missing my point. I am saying:

Gay/lesb are psychological abnormalities
just like ....
Transgender are bilogical abnormalities

Difference: One is phsycological ... other is biological
Similarities: They are abnormalities from norm.
Implication: There are natural occuring human beings who are not "HETROSEXUAL MALE" or "HETROSEXUAL FEMALE" (maybe because of biological or pshycological differences)

I hope you get my point now.

(Note: Hetrosexual means 'Attracted to opposite sex')

Re: what if ur own kid turns out to be ...

Personally I would be a billion times more horrified, disgusted and upset if my child grew up to be a paedophile. Just saying, there are worse things that could happen, so a sense of perspective is necessary.

Re: what if ur own kid turns out to be ...

you bring up your child in a healthy Islamic environment and insh'Allah that won't happen. just compare the numbers of kids brought up in Islamic household and those that have not.. surprise surprise.

Re: what if ur own kid turns out to be ...

sorry to burst your bubble cricketplaya but homosexuality is no more or less abundant in islamic communities. For sure you will pick up many positive traits with a moral upbringing, but your sexuality isn't one of them. You just get better at hiding the truth. I had a friend who believed that there are no gay men in Pakistan until I told him that a charity researched this and found that there are plenty of gay men in Pakistan. And where do they pick up? In mosques.

We knew someone in Pakistan who was married to a man that turned out to be gay. He was very cruel to her, would put out cigarettes on her wrists. probably he was taking out the anger at his repression on her. He would go cruising with the poor girl and the driver, leave the girl while he went out to score and she'd get raped every time by the driver. Of course he didn't care. It was just horrible.

Homosexuality exists everywhere and needs to be dealt with rather than ignored or you get the above result. All you do is create unhappiness. Some gay people might just be curious, but the majority will tell you they have always felt that way. Now how can you always feel that way if you're not born that way? A small child doesn't have the capacity to be influenced into being gay.

Re: what if ur own kid turns out to be ...

Mamaof3 - "To say that belief in a mis-wired brain means that you cannot be a Muslim is (IMHO) WAY off base."

you got me all wrong, i said - "you cannot believe that homo/lesbo is genetic & still claim to be a muslim....... "

Because to say that allah created some humans with genes that make him/her gay from birth & hence have no control over their attraction & then to forbid such behaviour would be contradictory & islam is not contradictory in it's teachings.

Re: what if ur own kid turns out to be ...

ok I see what you're saying chacha but its conflicting here. No one knows for sure if its genetic. If it isnt genetic then its a problem in the brain. Miswiring or something like that. So what is the difference between a genetic abnormality and a mental illness? God/Allah's creatures suffer from both and if He creates genetic abnormalities, He also creates mental illnesses yeah?

And where in the Koran can you support your view on this matter?

Re: what if ur own kid turns out to be …

for chacha and mama

It is true, nonetheless, that the homosexual drive remains poorly understood. It appears as the definitive argument against Darwinism’s hypothesis of the systematic elimination over time of anti-reproductive traits. In some cultures it is extremely rare: Wilfred Thesiger records that in the course of his long wanderings with the Arabian bedouins he never encountered the slightest indication of the practice. In other societies, particularly modern urban cultures, it is very widespread. Theories abound as to why this should be so: some researchers speculate that in overpopulated communities the tendency represents Nature’s own technique of population control. Laboratory rats, we are told, will remain resolutely heterosexual until disturbed by bright lights, loud noises, and extreme overcrowding. Other scientists have speculated about the effects of “hormone pollution” from the thousands of tonnes of estrogen released into the water supply by users of contraceptive pills. Again, this remains without proof.

But what is increasingly suggested by recent research is that homosexual tendencies are not always acquired, and that some individuals are born with them as an identifiable irregularity in the chromosomes. The implications of this for moral theology are clear: given the Quran’s insistence that human beings are responsible only for actions they have voluntarily acquired, homosexuality as an innate disposition cannot be a sin.

**It does not follow from this, of course, that acting in accordance with such a tendency is justifiable. Similar research has indicated that many human tendencies, including forms of criminal behaviour, are also on occasion traceable to genetic disorders; and yet nobody would conclude that the behaviour was therefore legitimate. Instead, we are learning that just as God has given people differing physical and intellectual gifts, He tests some of us by implanting moral tendencies which we must struggle to overcome as part of our self-reform and discipline. A mental patient with an obsessive desire to set fire to houses has been given a particular hurdle to overcome. A man or woman with strong homosexual urges faces the same challenge. **

To the religious believer, it is unarguable that homosexual acts are a metaphysical as well as a moral crime. Heterosexuality, with its association with conception, is the astonishing union which leads to new life, to children, grandchildren, and an endless progeny: it is a door to infinity. Sodomy, by absolute contrast, leads nowhere. As always, the most extreme vice comes about when a virtue is inverted.

None of this is of interest to the secular mind, of course, which detects no meaning in existence and hence cannot imagine why maximum pleasure and gratification should not be the goal of human life. The notion that we are here on earth in order to purify our souls and experience the incomparable bliss of the divine presence is utterly alien to most of our compatriots. And yet there is a purely secular argument against homophilia which we can attempt to deploy.

By Abdal Hakim murad…read full article here,
The Fall of the Family (Part II) By Abdal-Hakim Murad

A non issue.

Re: what if ur own kid turns out to be ...

if my kids turned out gay they would get a whipping job from me, lol