What does Islam say?

Lifestyle Relationships
61

Re: What does Islam say?

It seems most of the men in this thread need some form of therapeutic therapy to slowly guide them towards a reality check. Clearly, the caves have done you all no good with the dankness and all.

62

Re: What does Islam say?

If a woman goes to new home with negative ideas, it will one day show up and cause her problems.

63

Re: What does Islam say?


.

64

You know what causes divorces?

The fact that the world has changed. Men still think women are dependent, weak and naive. They want an educated woman who is too meek to open her mouth and defend herself in the event of something going wrong. It doesn’t work that way.

In the past, women have never said a word no matter how they were mistreated because they couldn’t…they had nowhere to go and had no idea what they were actually worth. This has set a bad precedence for the future. Despite education, advancement and times having changed…men still expect women to feel dependent and helpless.

If they don’t act helpless and stupid, they’re termed selfish and evil. Having a home of your own is selfish, wanting to take care of your own parents is selfish, not wanting to be a free maid is selfish, etc etc etc.

The fact is, demanding all of these things from women for years and years and years IS selfish. But for some odd reason, our culture is so ***dheet ***that even if you reason with them…they are still stuck on the “larkay ke maan baap larki ke sar ankhon par aur larki ke maan baap jayein bhaar mein kyun ke larki parayee hoti hai”. :rolleyes: Just because something has been happening for years does not make it right. Just because a woman has the confidence to stand on her own two feet and fend for herself does not make her selfish. It makes her strong and we all know how scared desi men get of a strong woman.

Back in the day, men provided women with a roof over her head, children, financial support and some luxuries here and there.

NOW…she is educated. She does not need you to provide for her. She does not need you to give her a child since there are plenty of other alternatives. She does not need you for the future because a good old 401K does the job quite well. She does not need you for luxuries either since her income is sufficient thanks to her education. She can buy her own home. She can buy her own car. She can go on vacations. She can do anything she wants. No inlaws. No drama. No BS daqyanoosi khayalaat.

So, what exactly is the incentive in marrying you? Koi bhi larki apne pair pe kulhaRi kyun maray?

65

Re: What does Islam say?

I see it as just an emotional outburst.

In reality, women need men more than men need women. Both need each other though.

Cockroach Ya Chooha Aa Jaye to Kehti Hain: Hai Allah Main Mar Gai! Even the educated and independant type. :hehe:

Joke aside:

Here is the real deal:

I know there are men who are happy living single, not many women despite great earnng and bank balance do that and they love the idea to get married to anyone who is even half decent. Life is hard for women everywhere even as so called independant life style. They are played by men on weekly basis and they hope someday someone of them will marry them.

I can write exact sentences of very educated and succesful , wealthy women who for one reason or other could not get married but then these may be edited. So hint is enough for now.

Truth hurts, this s not the right attitude for women to have.

Make friends, not foe. Life is short. Old age alone for women is much tougher than for single old men. Considerng both have same amount of wealth.

Women have lot to lose men do not. Trust me. A divorced woman still has more difficultes to get married specially if she has children even in open societes, than men do.

This fake liberated view is far from reality. I am being humble here. Not arrogant. :slight_smile:

66

Re: What does Islam say?

[quote=“Reha”]

You know what causes divorces?

The fact that the world has changed. Men still think women are dependent, weak and naive. They want an educated woman who is too meek to open her mouth and defend herself in the event of something going wrong. It doesn’t work that way.

In the past, women have never said a word no matter how they were mistreated because they couldn’t…they had nowhere to go and had no idea what they were actually worth. This has set a bad precedence for the future. Despite education, advancement and times having changed…men still expect women to feel dependent and helpless.

If they don’t act helpless and stupid, they’re termed selfish and evil. Having a home of your own is selfish, wanting to take care of your own parents is selfish, not wanting to be a free maid is selfish, etc etc etc.

The fact is, demanding all of these things from women for years and years and years IS selfish. But for some odd reason, our culture is so ***dheet ***that even if you reason with them…they are still stuck on the “larkay ke maan baap larki ke sar ankhon par aur larki ke maan baap jayein bhaar mein kyun ke larki parayee hoti hai”. :rolleyes: Just because something has been happening for years does not make it right. Just because a woman has the confidence to stand on her own two feet and fend for herself does not make her selfish. It makes her strong and we all know how scared desi men get of a strong woman.

Reha, i couldnt agree with you more! however i rate you for your patience with replying, i read a few of the posts when this thread was created and got ready for a full on debate, till i realised its a losing battle out there.

Fact is, Pakistani men (and some women) are not ready to accept that fact that some decent girls would like a home of their own. Ask for a home and get accused of being evil, selfish and a homewrecker. Why dont pakistani men realise, its nothing against their mothers and fathers and their entire family, but its simply to do with the fact that we want our own little home. We want freedom from being told what to do and how to do it. We want to decorate our kitchen, our living rooms, host dinner parties, have friends over on game nights, do daavats for our inlaws and our own families :blush:. Also, it helps to raise kids in an environment where they wont be spoiled by grandparental protection (i.e. throw a chappal at them when they misbehave without having dadi and nani interfere! :stuck_out_tongue: :halo:) etc. Living with others simply restricts all this. Also, living with the inlaws doesnt prove love for them and in the same way living away from inlaws doesnt show hate. This is some seriously retarded way of thinking. the DIL can take care of her inlaws in other ways, she can visit often, take cooked food, plan family outings etc, in fact everything she does for her own parents. Living apart doesnt prevent her from doing that. Also, the son-in law should also do the same for his inlaws. its human decency, which again is irrespective of whether youre in a joint-family system or not! so please STOP JUDGING girls who want their own homes! its STUPID and unfair!

on a final note, i found Jaanwar’s comment really unneccesary :frowning: all that anger and swearing, you would make a horrible bahu so thank your stars youre a guy and show some understanding with girls without judging us left right and centre.:snooty:

67

Re: What does Islam say?

p.s. sorry still dont know how to quote correctly in the pretty box :confused:

p.p.s. i dont think i stressed enough the meaning of a woman’s own home in my above post. We’ve grown up playing with doll-houses and tea-sets, and lego sets building unstable houses, and then growing up with frequent and unneccesary trips to ikea; all done with our own future homes in mind. :blush: we WANT to host gatherings and have people over, have slumber parties for the kids, movie nights with the girls, cosy dinners with the SO. It’s how we picture married life to be in our naive ways and you with your “larki ka ghar uske sasuraal mein hain” thinking, you just rain on our parade! and GOD FORBID if we object, we are the unmarriageable evil women creating hate through manipulation. And to think it all started from a plastic teaset… :khums: Ladies, i say we invest in an xbox for our little girls in future, so they dont imagine a world outside of that one room they live in…

68

Re: What does Islam say?

I agree. The guys posting here don’t realize how important it is for a women to set up her house and make it her own home. And it’s also funny how CONVENIENTLY they forget that the girl also has parents but nobody ever expects a guy to go live with his in-laws. When a girl gets married and leaves her parents’ home, how come they don’t complain about their son in law taking their daughter away from them! Don’t you think their daughter is as dear to them as the son is to his parents?!? Then these immature boys claim it’s in our culture for the girl to go live with her in-laws. The ONLY reason Pakistani girls are expected to live with their in-laws is due the influence of Hindu culture. There is nowhere else in the world where a Muslim girl let alone a girl is expected to move in with her in-laws and start a family living out of a bedroom! It’s so pathetic how some people think…you can definitely see a clear example of male chauvinism here.

And I think the poster ‘diwana’ is from Alice in Wonderland…claiming that son in laws have to take care of their parents, their wives, their kids and their in-laws…hahaha if only he knew how it works in most Pakistani families! The son in law might interact with his in-laws once every two weeks or only once a month yet these same men expect their wives to serve their parents everyday. That’s the case in at least 90% of the families living in Pakistan!

Ladies just be glad we all aren’t married to men like these! My husband always tells me that most problems arise due to joint family systems and it’s best a couple lives separate from their families! In fact he says a daughter is more emotionally attached to her parents so it’s probably best for her parents to live closer!

69

Re: What does Islam say?

Seriously, how do you guys read and write such lengthy posts?? Diwana, get a job man.

70

Re: What does Islam say?

Its fake for those who refuse to acknowledge it and choose to live in their fantasy world where life is still stuck in the 1920’s. You need to wake up buddy and smell the Shaan Masala. Whether you choose to get with the times or not…women are not jaahil anymore and have many many more options than you think…:slight_smile: Before it was okay for men to be mediocre and bring nothing but a paycheck to the table in exchange for everything a woman provides. Majboori thi. Now, not so much. For a woman to buy into whatever it is you’re offering…you will have to bring a lot more than mammi pappa and a bratty nand to deal with…:slight_smile:

71

Re: What does Islam say?

We know Islam allows 4 marriages, no one is denying it. His degrading views on women are the problem.

If you can give a clear and clean reason for why its horrible for a women to have a her own place I'll give you credit.

72

Re: What does Islam say?

                      This is the most absurd assumption I have read in ages !!!!

Having a spouse and children does not guarantee a nice and happy old age. I know so many people who could even make it to their parent's janaza just because they were residing in USA . Parents ki dekh bhaal karna to bohat door ki baat hai. I know a woman who despite having a son and a daughter and a husband is still living here alone. I also know a man who married twice have 4 children in total yet he is still living alone. If Allah has destined you to be alone in your old age you will be. Allah has not made death and sickness easier for men and harder for women. It's so so easy to forget Allah and predict future and generalize but you don't know if you will be even be alive to see the next day.

It's true it's easier for divorced men to get married than women. I don't know why people think that marriage is the end all and be all of life. As if you come into this world to get married only. Again if Allah has a plan for you to get married again you will and if He does not wish you to get married again you won't even if you happen to be a man. Allah kay kamo ko apnay hath main na ley uski marzi kay baghair kuch nahi hota.

73

Re: What does Islam say?

the same reply as per Mr.Jaanwar goes for u.

74

Re: What does Islam say?

is someone watching pakistani drama "Samdhan"...... now that's some issue that if the bride has only a mom and bride gets married , then would she leave her mom alone in house?

75

Re: What does Islam say?

According to some men.......................she would have to. Because she is "parayee"............matlab maan baap ka apni aulaad pe haqq nahin hai agar vo aulaad larki ho to.

76

Re: What does Islam say?

I am really thankful to a friend who has suggested me something which she says doesn't conflict with Islam and also goes well with society norms.

According to her , after marriage, a girl may/should live with her husband (offcourse if thats possible) only at some distant place from her inlaws and then first she has to understand her husband, and once she is comfortable with it, she needs to understand her inlaws. Once that is done beautifully, she may after a year or 2 , get back and start living with her inlaws. My friend has seen many examples of the sort and all were successful.

So i believe it's better that the girls first should live away (luck matters and husband's job) and understand the new house and its people and once at comfort with them , she may live together.

77

Re: What does Islam say?

Really?? Wasn’t Fatimah, Prophet Mohammed’s (PBUH) daughter, displeased about Ali considering taking a second wife and her father supported her in this, telling him to divorce his daugher if he was going to go ahead? Of course in the end he stayed with Fatimah… She is the only one I can think of off the top of my head but I’m sure there were many many more. Of coure men might have the right to have 4 wives but the women also have the right not to be part of that arrangement.

All these desi assumptions about how Muslim women lived back then lol.. Those women had far more freedom than a lot of village women do in Pakistan now, they were free to ride solo on their camels and when they got divorced there was not the stigma there that we have in our culture, meaning they could and did remarry easily (an attitude that is still held by Arabs today), younger men could also marry older women back then without the idiotic ‘community’ judging them, they were free to keep their own money and gold without having to hand it over to their MIL to ‘look after’ as if they’re too stupid or can’t be trusted .. My mum used to tell me that when she was growing up people used to even say it was unIslamic for desi girls to even cut their hair, it’s well known now that the Prophet’s (PBUH) own wives often cut their hair into a bob style alll those years ago.. Regarding the comment about shopping u seriously believe those women were made to live with the absolute bare minimum and told to like it or lump it?? Put all that together and u realise just how backwards our Hindu-inspired culture is in comparison..

Whenever a girl in our culture asks for even just her basic rights (inc sometimes just saying no to a rishta she doesn’t want) she is labelled ‘greedy’, ‘selfish’ or ‘westernised’ :nook:

78

Re: What does Islam say?

It is about time women for their own sake understand life for women is not a cake walk. While it is commendable that women are trying to and have come out of wrong culture, but they have gone too far in doing so.

Respect of elders, specially the in-laws is just as important as as her own parents.

If it was not clear above from my posts above, I will repeat. There is no hard and fast rule that a woman has to live with her in laws.

If it is possible, a separate house is fine.

If it is not possible, then there should not be a pressure on men to do so. Above comment in asking man to earn more so they could live separate is one way to put a pressure on man.

What can happen next may not be something women would like. :(

79

Re: What does Islam say?

This thread is not about demanding a separate home whether a man can afford it or not. Its about the basic right of a woman to be able to live as she pleases because she is also a living, breathing human being with wants and desires of her own. When Allah swt talks of the Day of Judgement in the Qur’an, he doesnt specify different punishments for man and woman…they are one and the same for human beings. That means…drummmrollllllllll…that women are also considered HUMAN BEINGS according to Allah swt. :hayaa:

When He created these rules…who are you to question Him and His authority? How dare a mere man stand in the face of another human being and tell them they are not entitled to happiness? Pray that you never have a daughter.

Men believe a woman who wants to do more than cook and clean has gone too far in demanding basic rights like the one I mentioned above. Since Im not the one being subjected to such ideology, it does not bother me much. However, a woman that has to put up with it…I feel sorry for her. Its a terribel feeling when you are cornered and dont have options to do anything aside from what you’re told to do.

How would a man understand or empathize with a female? How would he get this? He has never been told to suppress his feelings, desires or needs for the greater good of the family.

Now as for the empty threat at the end of your post…the part we might not like. Well, in the US…its not so easy is it to walk away from a spouse…even if she is - OMG - a mere female. :slight_smile: If you’re thinking of divorce, then by all means…go for it. In this day and age…you wont find many majboor and lachaar larkiyan that HAVE to stay with a mama’s boy. They will take you to court, sue you for child support AND spousal support, take the kids, house, car and your money…better think twice before messing with mama.

See? Isnt it just so much better to live with some insaaniyat?

80

Re: What does Islam say?

so its fine if a husband throws around a slap or two to his for badmouthing.......or like lock her up in her room if she doesn't stop being 'immoral'........you wouldn't question those things right? because those are a husband's right islamically.

This is like saying all men who are sacrificing a lot for their families are basically doing nothin? So your dad or brothers they NEVER suppressed their desires/feelings for your family's greater good?

Thats like so vitriolic ...