I need an answer. If I do not believe in MGA being the promised messiah, do I still remain a Muslim? If believing in MGA as being the promised messiah is an essential of faith and I rebel this notion, it should make me a non-muslim, right?
There is no such thing as 'incomplete Muslim'.
Lets look at the following scenario
You are waiting for Jesus (A.S). Tomorrow a persons stands up and say I am the same Messiah Holy Propher fortold. If he is the correct Messiah and you dont believe in him then would you not be going against the teaching of your faith.
It's not possible to call someone Non-Muslim as only Allah knows whats in the heart. But if you deny someone's prophethood then you can in my opnion be called Kafir of that Particular prophet.
I hope this helps.
The names aren't mentioned in Quran but it is mentioned that Allah did send many Prophets and the numbers are mentioned in hadith. Some Prophets and messengers (pbut) have mentioned with their names also in Quran.
I'm not asking for the name but for the proof of another prophet(whatever his name) after the Prophet Muhammad(SAW) in Quran because as you claim that we can't be "complete muslims" without believing in Mirza Ghulam Ahmed so I'm asking for the proof of this claim.
I ll suggest to stick on fundamentals as the topic suggests. This will spread the current topic in hand. Or unless everyone wants to get into this particular discussion then I dont have any objection...( i am pretty sure objection does not count here..lolz)
I ll suggest to stick on fundamentals as the topic suggests. This will spread the current topic in hand. Or unless everyone wants to get into this particular discussion then I dont have any objection...( i am pretty sure objection does not count here..lolz)
We are talking about the fundamentals I suppose. If belief in something makes you "complete muslim" then of course it has to do with the fundamentals because no one wants to be a "half muslim" or "incomplete muslim". :)
Even Prophet Muhammad(SAW) didn't know the meaning of Huruful Muqattat so how can you claim that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed did???
About the abrogated ayat, well, some Muslim Scholars of past had the similar view regarding the abrogated ayat, doesn't make them all Prophets, does it?
I do not know much about this topic nor I know whether Holy Prophet SAW ever said he doesnt know the meaning of some ayaat nor I am saying he wouldnt have said so.
But common sence tells me that Holy Quran is a living book, last book and words of ALLAH which are promissed to be unchanged till day of judgement.
Some ayaats may only be understood according to right time. Hence there meanings get revealed by saints and mujaddids.
(sharing something which came in my mind).
We are talking about the fundamentals I suppose. If belief in something makes you "complete muslim" then of course it has to do with the fundamentals because no one wants to be a "half muslim" or "incomplete muslim". :)
Personally it is difficult for me to keep my feets in many boats.
I would rather write on topic which is currently being discussed then saying few things here and few things there...
i think i just did this today and it will only cause confusion...maybe the topic starter can lead the discussion. I guess he doesnt want to get into all big discussion of hadith and ayaat rather he would want to know what Ahmadiyya believes.
If this is the case then probably a big discussion is not necessary. It rather require only a question and an answer rather then counter attacks...
yahan koi jang to cherni nahin...probably the thread need to well clarified.
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
I have no intentions to fight really or argue just for the sake of arguements. Of course, this is your Aqidah and this is what you believe in but there are basis for Aqaid and I don't think there's any harm in discussing those basis in order to get the conclusions.
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
^
Hareem the question you posted in post #79 is vaguely answered in #81.
I can add that you are waiting for Prophet who will descend from Heaven. Fundamentally he is going to be prophet abb wo zameen se aaye ya asmaan se ho ga to prophet hi na?
so I guess I dont have to say further as this will raise issue of wafaat e masih...
Even Prophet Muhammad(SAW) didn't know the meaning of Huruful Muqattat so how can you claim that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed did???
About the abrogated ayat, well, some Muslim Scholars of past had the similar view regarding the abrogated ayat, doesn't make them all Prophets, does it?
off the topic, but how do u come up with this non-sense ?
Lets look at the following scenario
You are waiting for Jesus (A.S). Tomorrow a persons stands up and say I am the same Messiah Holy Propher fortold. If he is the correct Messiah and you dont believe in him then would you not be going against the teaching of your faith.
It's not possible to call someone Non-Muslim as only Allah knows whats in the heart. But if you deny someone's prophethood then you can in my opnion be called Kafir of that Particular prophet.
I hope this helps.
Please come out of circular arguments. My question is simple. According to Ahmedi teachings, what is the status of the people who deny MGA being the promised Messiah?
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
^^^ I think you just dont want to know the answer. Islam's opposite is non-islam, Faiths opposite is Kufr. A muslim can be a muslim and a kafir at the same time. Anyone who leaves prayers becomes a Kafir because of rejecting a clear commandment. Anyone who refused to believe in a clear order of Allah and the Prophet (saw) becomes a Kafir to the limit of the rejection. But anyone who calls himself a muslim remains a muslim until he/she himself refuses to continue being a muslim. i.e., by joining another faith or calling themselves non-muslim etc.
^^^ I think you just dont want to know the answer. Islam's opposite is non-islam, Faiths opposite is Kufr. A muslim can be a muslim and a kafir at the same time. Anyone who leaves prayers becomes a Kafir because of rejecting a clear commandment. Anyone who refused to believe in a clear order of Allah and the Prophet (saw) becomes a Kafir to the limit of the rejection. But anyone who calls himself a muslim remains a muslim until he/she himself refuses to continue being a muslim. i.e., by joining another faith or calling themselves non-muslim etc.
is that ur theory or do u have something to back that up ?
Please come out of circular arguments. My question is simple. According to Ahmedi teachings, what is the status of the people who deny MGA being the promised Messiah?
They are Kafir of Promissed Messiah (A.S) nothing more nothing less.
is that ur theory or do u have something to back that up ?
I think we should probably clear the meaning of Kafir first before we compare word kafir with Non-Muslim.
What do you say?
off the topic, but how do u come up with this non-sense ?
All the major Scholars say that only Allah knows the meaning of these Huruf or may be I missed something so kindly let me know if I'm wrong.
It states in Quran that Prophet(SAW) doesn't withhold the knowledge of unseen from us. Some great Scholars like Imam Jafir Sadiq and others have tried to interprete the meanings of these words but at the end they were only estimating and no one is sure about their meanings.
Lets look at the following scenario
You are waiting for Jesus (A.S). Tomorrow a persons stands up and say I am the same Messiah Holy Propher fortold. If he is the correct Messiah and you dont believe in him then would you not be going against the teaching of your faith.
It's not possible to call someone Non-Muslim as only Allah knows whats in the heart. But if you deny someone's prophethood then you can in my opnion be called Kafir of that Particular prophet.
I hope this helps.
And what if you believe in a man who's not a prophet or who can't be a prophet because there's no prophet after Muhammad(SAW)????
And what if you believe in a man who's not a prophet or who can't be a prophet because there's no prophet after Muhammad(SAW)????
hmmm well lets not reach to conclusions so quickly besides I was only using metaphorical way to explain things better.
If you have further questions then please do post.
hmmm well lets not reach to conclusions so quickly besides I was only using metaphorical way to explain things better.
If you have further questions then please do post.
I have only one question, I just want to see the proof for another Prophet coming after Prophet Muhammad(SAW). I know some people said that i should check the ayat of Nizul-e-masih for this question, but there's no mention of Jesus(AS) coming in Quran but its mentioned in hadith that near Qyamah he will come back as an Ummati and leader and not as a prophet, and then there are other ayat about Imam Mahdi.
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
Hareem
you dont need a proof for that? This is the fundamental believe of every Muslim that Messiah will come in later days as fortold by Holy Prophet SAW.
Now for you that Messiah is Jesus (A.S). Is he not a Prophet? Basically you do believe that Prophet will come after Holy Prophet SAW.
Status of Imam Mahdi in its self is a big discussion.
Let me know if you dont consider Jesus (A.S) 2nd coming as a Prophet?
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
^^^ I think Hareem has said that according to the mainstream belief Jesus will come as a "leader" and an "ummati". This in itself is a wrong belief and goes against the clear, Sahih hadith calling Jesus (as) in his second coming as Nabiullah. It is the Hadith narrated by Nuwas bin Sum'aan in Sahih Muslim.
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
Isa(AS) and other prophets were prophets before Muhammad(SAW)'s coming and after the coming of Muhammad(SAW) they are all still Prophets of Allah and Allah has called them Prophets in Quran.
Now when Isa(AS) comes, he'll still be a prophet of Allah because he was one in the past but there won't be any revelations of Scriptures etc.
In short, his title will be the same like any other prophet but his role will be different.