Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
Aren't we going off topic? I think we already know what Ahmadiyya belief is?
I’ve raised the same question earlier, if Mirza sahib learnt from the mr. Gul Ali shah and became a prophet i just wonder what is status of Mr. Gul Ali SHah ?
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
I guess the number of posts about Ahmedis on GS would exceed the Ahmedi population in Pakistan. :)
For the original poster, if you want to get information, you do not go to sources which are potentially biased (which in case is the website).
Anyways, now that we have started again, I have a question from the Ahmedi brothers as well. What is the status of a person who does not believe in the Promised Messiah (MGA) appointed by God Himself? Is such a person non-believer?
We are not the judge so we can't say who's good and who's not. I don't know any muslim mujadid and scholar who didn't know Quran by heart and of course the one who's a hafiz and then have wisdom of understanding Quran has more knowledge than those who are able to understand Quranic Arabic only..
As my understanding is, a Hafiz can recite the Quran without pausing or referring to the book. A person may know all the verses of the Quran but without the practice to recite them like a Hafiz. I believe that Promised Messiah (as) knew all the Quran by heart. If you get a chance to actually read his books, you will get an idea. There is no point in discussing this issue further unless you read his books.
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I'm not comparing Huffaz with non Huffaz people but Huffaz with knowledge and understanding vs non-huffaz but with knowledge and understanding of ayat.
Now memorizing Quran is actually one of the condition of being able to understand Quran,.
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No it is not.
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And instead of answering my question you're making yet another claim that "mirza ghulam understood Quran better than anyone in this Ummah*".* Now that includes all the Sahaba[ra] who directly learnt from the Prophet[saw] and then all the taba tabeen and then all the great scholars like imam bukhari, imam muslim, imam jafar sadiq, imam Abu hanifa, imam malik etc......
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YES. That is one of the signs of being Imam Mahdi.
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You're not really backing up the claims you made, with any proof .............there's a difference between a hafiz and a person who knows few ayat and writes them here and there, anyway....
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Please read his books and then tell me if he was a person who wrote a few verses here and there or explained all of the Quran in so many different ways.
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so he wasn't Hafiz but he knew Qur'an's secrets, I got your point. So talking of secrets, did he know the meanings of Haruf-ul-muqatta'at and the ambigous* ayat(mutashbihat)?.*.
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Yes. And also add the Nasikh Mansookh in this list as well. He proved that there are no abrogated verses in the Quran.
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I still didn't get the proper answer of ghulam ahmed being mentioned in Quran as a prophet.
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You will get the answer when you will find out where in Quran is the return of Jesus and coming of Mahdi is mentioned.
I guess the number of posts about Ahmedis on GS would exceed the Ahmedi population in Pakistan. :)
For the original poster, if you want to get information, you do not go to sources which are potentially biased (which in case is the website).
Anyways, now that we have started again, I have a question from the Ahmedi brothers as well. What is the status of a person who does not believe in the Promised Messiah (MGA) appointed by God Himself? Is such a person non-believer?
A muslim who does not believe in any of God's commandments has a defective faith. This includes all the essentials of faith.
Well if Mirza sahib did claim that he was shadow of Prophet s.a.w then my argument wud be if Prophet s.a.w had a shadow ? I believe that it was one of his miracles that he s.a.w didnt have a shadow.
That is a naive view. Prophets are humans who walk and eat and sleep like the others. Please read the Quran.
:) I think Ahmadis are talking in a literal sense. They are trying to say that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed was just like the Prophet Muhammad(SAW) in his speech, manners, knowledge and look. audhubillah
Mirza learnt Quran and reading and writing from his father and other teachers while no human taught Our Prophet Muhammad(SAW) how to read and write.
Ibne Arabi (ar) writes
"So that is the true Muhammadan Shar' (shariah)--the one such that Muhammad, if he were alive
(on earth) and that particular case were presented to him, would pass judgment on it in
exactly the same way as this Imam. For God will teach him (by inspiration) that this is
the Muhammadan Shar' and will therefore forbid him (to follow judgments arrived at by)
analogical reasoning, despite the existence of the textual indications77 God has bestowed
on him. And this is why God's Messenger said, in describing the Mahdi, that "He follows
in the trace of my footsteps, and he makes no mistake." Ibne Arabi, Futoohate Makkiyyah.
That is a naive view. Prophets are humans who walk and eat and sleep like the others. Please read the Quran.
and break the moon into two; just like other humans or wake up the dead, just like other humans? :)
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
Now thats the whole new discussion about the nature of Miracles. Do you think it was Jesus (as) who had the power over life and death or God?
I guess the number of posts about Ahmedis on GS would exceed the Ahmedi population in Pakistan. :)
Five million. I guess not.. :)
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
OK reading through the whole thread I think we are discussing the Quran.
There are 80+ books written by Promissed Messiah (A.S) and all have Quranic references. Infact there are books/poetry written in Arabic as well.
This without any doubt suggest to me that he had a great knowledge of Quran. However I dont know whether he was a Hafiz or not.
Please view this wonderful Qaseeda written in Praise of Holy Prophet Hadhrat Muhammad Mustapha SAW by Promissed Messiah (A.S).
Originally Written in Arabic but the follwoing version is also translated in English and Urdu.
Just to give you taste what love he had for Holy Prophet SAW.
:) I think Ahmadis are talking in a literal sense. They are trying to say that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed was just like the Prophet Muhammad(SAW) in his speech, manners, knowledge and look. audhubillah
Mirza learnt Quran and reading and writing from his father and other teachers while no human taught Our Prophet Muhammad(SAW) how to read and write.
You cannot compare anyone as Holy Prophet Hadhrat Muhammad Mustapha SAW. Promissed Messiah claims that he merely a servant of Holy Prophet SAW.
We all muslims try to follow into his footsteps to become like him. We all strive to something like him. Obviously we can only try.
Do not compare how Holy Prophet SAW read and write with Promissed Messiah (A.S) but if you want to then also tell me how do you compare Holy Prophet (SAW) with Hadhrat Moosa (A.S), Hadhrat Eesa (A.S) etc?
Five million. I guess not.. :)
A little off topic but as it has come up.
Jamaat Ahmadiyya world wide has approximtely 200 Million Followers.
(I do not know how many there are in Pakistan) But I can tell you with confidence that you will not find any city in Pakistan where there is no Ahmadi.
^OKay, thanks for your wonderful advice and threat. Can you let me know if Mirza Ghulam was a Hafiz Quran or not? (with solid proof ofcourse).
Hareem sb
what kind of a proof you want?
I am not saying he was a Hafiz or he was not but the question is how do you proov that someone is Hafiz.
Havent you ever read any of his books? His poems in Arabic?
To me many posts have been made where you have not answered just by saying that you do not want to get involved.
Your question is valid and it should be answered and I will try to see what information I can get.
MGA calling himself the shadow of the last messanger is mind bogling.......hazrat abu bakar, hazrat umar, hazrat usman, hazrat ali...may Allah be pleased with them....never claimed such thing. it seems disrespectfull to prophet Mohammad. no one can be like him(p.b.u.h) or his shadow........he was the epitome of humanity. MGA was/is/will be... nothing .. ever.
bigboi you never give proof of MGA's claims....did u live with him or followed his every foot step?????? do u visit sunni site or read sunni books to get dose of TRURH??? all u do is ask questions in answer to the questions raised by member. try giving an answer for once instead of getting p#$%%#$ off
Aramis sb
what proof you have that Khulfaaye Rashdeen never called themselves shadow of Holy Prophet Hadhart Muhammad SAW?
You need to understand what does shadow means in this context. A shadow (in my opnion) in this context means the person who has the qualities of Holy Prophet SAW. We all try to attain some qualities of Holy Prophet SAW as he as greatest of ALL human beings. Hence this is not a disrespect of any kind but infact a blessing of ALLAH.
your second query (should probably be answered by bigboi but this is what I would have said)
From bottom of my heart I follow 100% sunnah (so you may call me a Sunni as well) I know almost all aspect of Sunni sect. There are obviously few differenes but not many hence I would not find much help in going through a Sunni website.
I still didn't get the proper answer of ghulam ahmed being mentioned in Quran as a prophet.
Please provide me the names of 124000 Prophets as we know are sent from Holy Quran?
ye bachon waale arguments dene se pehle kuch soch to lia karo.
A muslim who does not believe in any of God's commandments has a defective faith. This includes all the essentials of faith.
I need an answer. If I do not believe in MGA being the promised messiah, do I still remain a Muslim? If believing in MGA as being the promised messiah is an essential of faith and I rebel this notion, it should make me a non-muslim, right? Specially, going through the website, it is abundantly clear that this 'essential' is one of the most important one for a 'muslim'.
There is no such thing as 'incomplete Muslim'.
As my understanding is, a Hafiz can recite the Quran without pausing or referring to the book. A person may know all the verses of the Quran but without the practice to recite them like a Hafiz. I believe that Promised Messiah (as) knew all the Quran by heart. If you get a chance to actually read his books, you will get an idea. There is no point in discussing this issue further unless you read his books.
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No it is not.
YES. That is one of the signs of being Imam Mahdi.
Please read his books and then tell me if he was a person who wrote a few verses here and there or explained all of the Quran in so many different ways.
Yes. And also add the Nasikh Mansookh in this list as well. He proved that there are no abrogated verses in the Quran.
You will get the answer when you will find out where in Quran is the return of Jesus and coming of Mahdi is mentioned.
First you said that he wasn't hafiz but had the best understanding of Quran. Now you have changed your stance and you are saying that he was hafiz and for the proof I'll have to read his 80+ books. Still there's no solid written proof in his biography etc?
Again, you're not giving me the straight answer for another prophet after Muhammad(SAW) being mentioned in Quran. I told you there's no mention of Jesus(AS) coming back and Imam Mahdi in Quran but it is clear that there's no Prophet after the RasulAllah(SAW).
The hadith you gave in context to the ayah talks about may be a mujadid but not a Prophet.
Ibne Arabi (ar) writes
"So that is the true Muhammadan Shar' (shariah)--the one such that Muhammad, if he were alive (on earth) and that particular case were presented to him, would pass judgment on it in exactly the same way as this Imam. For God will teach him (by inspiration) that this is the Muhammadan Shar' and will therefore forbid him (to follow judgments arrived at by) analogical reasoning, despite the existence of the textual indications77 God has bestowed on him. And this is why God's Messenger said, in describing the Mahdi, that "He follows in the trace of my footsteps, and he makes no mistake." Ibne Arabi, Futoohate Makkiyyah.
Well, lets prove then if Mirza Ghulam Ahmed was the Mahdi or not?
Please provide me the names of 124000 Prophets as we know are sent from Holy Quran?
ye bachon waale arguments dene se pehle kuch soch to lia karo.
The names aren't mentioned in Quran but it is mentioned that Allah did send many Prophets and the numbers are mentioned in hadith. Some Prophets and messengers (pbut) have mentioned with their names also in Quran.
I'm not asking for the name but for the proof of another prophet(whatever his name) after the Prophet Muhammad(SAW) in Quran because as you claim that we can't be "complete muslims" without believing in Mirza Ghulam Ahmed so I'm asking for the proof of this claim.
Yes. And also add the Nasikh Mansookh in this list as well. He proved that there are no abrogated verses in the Quran. .
Even Prophet Muhammad(SAW) didn't know the meaning of Huruful Muqattat so how can you claim that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed did???
About the abrogated ayat, well, some Muslim Scholars of past had the similar view regarding the abrogated ayat, doesn't make them all Prophets, does it?