i still have not heard how you all CAN believe that he(mirza) can be maryam...he can be pregnant ...give birth to Isa and turn into Isa. ( tamseeli taur per....I KNOW) but it is BEYOND you all to believe that Isa can be alive in his earthly body in Heaven.
I need to research on this allegation and probably read this book before make any comment as I dont know about this.
I will get back to this one Inshallah very soon...dont worry hum bhaagne waalon mien se nahin...
Again I need to read the book or al least few pages before and after before I can make any comment. So I will get back on this one.
How does your allegation compares with the writing? I just did not get the context…aik line ki allegation ki bijaaye agar aap zara ppora context bhi byan kar dien to bohat meherbaani ho gi..
^
yaara,
kyun aapna dimag or waqt logon par seyaa kar ra hai? Ek Ayat hai Qur'an jaan par Khuda ketha hai ke tum siraf ek perambhar ho, jise sach ko maan na hai wo maan jai ga.
since so many pages you are driving in a circle with aramis09, did it bring anything? I've been watching Mr. Popat's discussion with Hanibal. Senseless and waste of time. Chacha_Ghalib was right. He told me once it's senseless.
This board is an Anti-Ahmadiyya Board, only the people who are responsible for that don't admit that. Shall I summarize this Thread in one word for all the people watching?
IGNORANCE
they think they can rely on Anti-Ahmadiyya Website who have only published what could cause pain and bitter persecution of Ahmadies. Yet they have the guts to say that they are following the law of Muhammad Mustafa (saw). How can you lie so brutal? Do you really think that these people want to unite? Do you really think they really want to hold onto the rope of Allah like commanded in the Holy Qur'an? Look at this Forum, look at Life & Relationship and look at the crap they have to discuss. Look in the Wedding Forum. Threads like "What do you wear under your weddings dress...I'm not pervert"
is this a question you should ask in public? Then we have Threads like **"Race and Intelligence". Is there any connection between Race and Intelligence? **This place is such a biased place where people have to discuss in long pages who is Ahlu Bayt and who not! Who is and that and what and what if and what you say is wrong and what I say is right!
Look at our women, they let us look like perverts in Life & Relationship Forum.
The people in the religious section - everyone - has to tell that his sect is the best. Then the other one comes and says no, yours is not. Then we have the dog fight, a mod comes and does his job he has been selected for only Closing Threads.
Disappointed I'am about the fact that barely one had any interest to check the video answers on the allegations. These people barely watch the videos and barely read the OFFICIAL STATEMENT of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamaat, then come here down and think they are allowed to tell us their crap and stories 100 % brought out of context. Mirza sahib had done this and done that. How can he be a nabi. **How the hell can Isa (as) then come down and kill the Swine (Chirstians) and break their Cross (Belief)? How? How? You owe me an explanation so that your allegations don't contradict with what Isa (as) will do.
**The Messiah will be raised among us Muslims says the Hadith. Look the meaning of raised! Raised from the earth and not descend from heaven. Isa (as) came to preach the Gospel and to bring back the Mosaic Law to it's root, because the teachings had been abrogated. The Muslims are same like the Jews, waiting for the Messiah to come since 2000 years. Muslims should have a wailing wall, too.
just leave it here, I'm not anymore here to read their crap over and over again, if you want to smash your head with them, do it brother, you are free, but as you see since the beginning. This has no sense until the people give in and are ready to read neutral literatur and not Anti-Ahmadiyya Propaganda sponsored by their Muftis, Mullahs and what not.
Ok after so much readings I have found following to share with you.
jese aap nien kaha ke tamseeli tor pe…mene iss lafz pe ziaada tawajja nahin di thi pehle iss lyye shaaid itni der lag gai.
Roohani Hamal or Maanvi hamal mien faraq hai.
Mashhoor Soofi Hadhrat Sahal rehmullah farmaate hian:
Al khaufu zakarun warrijaa unsaa minhuma yatawalladu haqaiqul iymaan
Khauff Muzakkar or Umeed Monas hai aur inn dono ke milne se haqiqe imaan peda hote hian. (Sharah Taruff page 57)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quran mien Hamal ka lafz khuda taala ke mutalliq bhi aaya hai:
Wa mimman hamalna maa’aa noohin (maryam 59)
Non Ahmadi Translation English: 58.* Those were some of the prophets on whom* Allah did bestow His Grace,- of the posterity of Adam, and of those who We carried (in the Ark) with Noah, and of the posterity of Abraham and Israel of those whom We guided and chose. Whenever the Signs of ((Allah)) Most Gracious were rehearsed to them, they would fall down in prostrate adoration and in tears.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Orr phir Mominon ke mutaliq bhi aaya hai:
La Tahmil alaina issran kamaa hamltahoo Alallazeena min qablina (Al baqrah 287)
Non Ahmadi Translation English:
286.* On no soul doth Allah Place a burden greater than it can bear. It gets every good that it earns, and it suffers every ill that it earns. (Pray:) “Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget or fall into error; our Lord! Lay not on us a burden Like that which Thou didst lay on those before us; Our Lord! Lay not on us a burden greater than we have strength to bear. Blot out our sins, and grant us forgiveness. Have mercy on us. Thou art our Protector; Help us against those who stand against faith.”*
yahaan hamal uthaane ke maanon mien istemaal hua hai. pass mehez lafz hamal par mazaak uraana jaayez nahin .
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hadhrat Masih e Maood (A.S) nien saaf torr pe likhdia hai ke:
“Isa’arah ke rang mien mujhe hamla theraya gya hai” (Kashti e Nooh p47)
Orr hamal ke lafz se haqeeqi or aam maane muraad nahin lyye gaye "haamle sifate Eisvi " muraad lia hai. Hence he (A.S) writes:
“Maryami sifat se Eisvi sifaat ki taraf muntaqil hona” (Kashti e Nooh p45)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tou phir iss par be wajah mazaaq uraana sharaafat se bayeed nahin.
Sources:
Source of Non Ahmadi Translation: The Holy Quran
Ahmadiyya Pocket Book Page 400 - 401 : http://alislam.org/urdu/pocket/APB10.pdf
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
P.S - Dictionary for Posterity
Main Entry: posterity **
Part of Speech:** noun
Definition: future generations
Synonyms: breed, brood, children, descendants, family, heirs, issue, lineage, next generation, offspring, progeniture, progeny, scions, seed, stock, succeeding generations, successors, unborn **
Antonyms:** past
I read some more information on this allegation and thought to share with everyone.
Source: Pocket Book page 403 - 407
^^ Further more to above post. Please read below allegation of Shetani Ilhamaat:
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
seeing Allah in dream...ok i'll accept but telling Allah that this and this shoould happen and then Allah agreeing....is shirk. please mention the name of book.
i might not have time to post for next 25 days or so as i'll be travelling. but i do want to mention that no matter how good. pious. united. peace -loving. bright faced ahmadis are.....their basic belief is wrong. so nothing counts.
hahaha…how can that be shirk? Maulvi Mohammad Qasim sb Rehmullah Allah mian ki godd mien khel rahe hain orr wo shirk nahin hai…ye double standard abb aapke hian iska mere paas or koi hal nahin…mera kaam tha allegation ka reply dena jo mien jaanta hoon ke mene de dia hai…
I think I have said and posted what was necessary for the reply. If you have objection to writings I posted or references within those writings then present them. However saying ke mujhe pata hai wo jhoot hian wagera se kaam nahin challe ga…If you are satisifed witht the answer then say ok i am happy with this reply to allegation I made but I still dont agree to claim of Mirza sb (A.S).
seedhi baat karrien na ghumaa phiraa ke baat na maanana Momineen ka shewa nahin…
Baaki ki allegation inshallah reply karke aapko post ka link message kar doon ga taake waapsi pe aapko reply dhondne mien dikkat na ho..
have a safe journey and see you soon Inshalalh.
P.S - For your comfort please read forms of Shirk in Quran.
[QUOTE]
Maulvi Mohammad Qasim sb Rehmullah Allah mian ki godd mien khel rahe hain orr wo shirk nahin hai...
[/QUOTE]
playing in Allah' lap....is that the dream ??????????
telling Allah what shd be done and what wud mirza like to happen????? was mirza's dream/ilham/kashaf
you cannot tell the difference that Allah cannot be told What to Do...mirza is not praying...if u read his writing he said i told Allah this SHOULD happen...u call this praying????
A maulvi whom you can quote is good and molvi who says things against mga and his followers is called names by you ppl???
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
following is the complete quote of mirza dream that i posted earlier
"I saw in my dream that I am exactly God and I believed that I am God, neither my intention remained nor any danger ...... in this capacity (when I was God) I said: We want a new system, new heavens, new earth. Thus I initially created heaven and earth in a condensed form in which there was neither any differentiation nor any arrangement. Then I separated them and arranged them ... and at that moment I found myself capable of doing that. Then I created the first sky and said: 'Inna zaiyanna assamaa addunya be masaabeeha' (We have adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps 67.5). Then I said: We will create human with a potion of clay. Thus I made Adam and I created Adam on the best shape and in this manner I became KHALIQ - Creator."
(Aina-e-Kamalaat-e-Islam P.564-565; Roohani Khazain Vol.5 Pp.564-565)
According to the Quran this is what Pharaoh said: Ana Rabbokum alAla. Tell Muslims what is the difference between these two statements?
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
Mirza labeled his forthcoming son to be God (if any doubt is left abt his being god!)and wrote:
“My son, who is going to be born, will be well known and successful, will be manifestation of The First and The Last and will be a expression of Haq and Supremacy as if God has descended from heavens.” (AlBushra Vol.2 P.21-24)
He says:
"I had been given the quality of annihilating and giving life." (Khutba-e-Ilhamiyah P.23; Roohani Khazain Vol.16 P.23)
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
he has hinted again and again that he is in-fact better than the Prophet Muhammad SAW....
*Any Hadith (of Holy Prophet PBUH) which is against My Revelation, I throw it away like a waste paper. (Roohani Khazain Vol 19 p. 140)
Holy Prophet Mohammed PBUH did not understand the meaning of Surah AlZilzal. (Roohani KhazainVol 3 p. 166)
For Him (PBUH) God showed only the sign of Lunar Eclipse, but for me He has shown both Solar and Lunar Eclipse ! Will you still refuse me ? (Roohani Khazain Vol 19 p. 71)
Revelation did not inform Holy Prophet Mohammed PBUH about Jesus son of Mary, Dajjal, Donkey of Dajjal, Gog and Magog, and Dabat-ul-ardh. (whereas Mirza's Revelation informed him ! (Roohani Khazain Vol 3 p.473)
The Miracle (of Holy Prophet Mohammed PBUH) of Dividing the Moon into Two was nothing but a form of Lunar Eclipse. (Roohani Khazain2 Malfoozat Vol 4 p.391)
Holy Prophet Mohammed PBUH did not go to Heavens on the Night of Ascension (Ma'iraj), it was just a Dream . (Roohani Khazain Mafoozat Vol 4 p.118)
Poetry (translation): (Recited in the presence of Mirza, who praised it and had it framed)
Mohammed has come down again amongst us
He is more glorious than before
He who wants to see a perfect Mohammed
He should see Ghulam Ahmad in Qadian.
(Akhbar Paigham us Sulh, Lahore dated 14th March 1916)
I am Adam, am Noah, I am Abraham, I am Isaac, I am Jacob, I am Ishmael, I am Moses, I am Jesus son of Mary, I am Mohammed PBUH... (Roohani Khazain Vol 22 p. 521)
Hadhrat Mohammed's PBUH revelation also turned out to be false. (Roohani Khazain Vol 3 p. 472)
Holy Prophet's Islam was like a New Moon and my Islam is like a Full Moon. (Roohani Khazain Vol 16 p. 184)
In the Inspiration " Muhammadur Rasoolullah, wallazeena ma'ahum..." I am addressed as Mohammed, the Prophet of Allah and God has addressed me as Mohammed, the Messenger of Allah. (Roohani Khazain Vol 18 p.216)
We do not need a New Kalima because the Promised Messiah (Mirza Qadiani) is not separate from Holy Prophet PBUH....Promised Messiah is Mohammed Rasoolullah himself, who has come again to this world to propagate Islam. (Mirza Basheer Ahmad son of Mirza Qadiani, Review of Religions, No. 3 Vol 14 p. 105)
All Prophets use to make Interpretational Mistakes, and every Prophet has shared such mistakes with me. Holy Prophet Mohammed PBUH has also made mistakes. (Roohani Khazain 2 Malfoozat Vol 2 p.224)
"But the fact is that the spirituality of Holy Prophet pbuh (in the form of Mirza Ghulam) in this end of the sixth millenium, that is in these days, is much more stronger and perfect and forceful as compared to those (first) years, like a full moon."
(Khutba-e-Ilhamiah, Roohani Khazain vol. 16 p.271)
"The spirituality of our holy Prophet (SAW) was conceived in 5th thousand (ie Makki birth) with its precise attributes and that period was not the the climax of his spirituality's development. It was rather the first step to the highest pinnacle of its perfection. Thereafter this spirituality manifested itself in its full glamour during the 6th thousand (his rebirth in Qadian) at the present time".
(Mirza in Khutba-e-llhamiyah, Roohani Khazain, Vol.16, p.266)
"And God chose such a DESPICABLE PLACE to bury the Holy Prophet (pbuh) which is EXTREMELY STINKING and DARK and CRAMPED and was the PLACE of the EXCRETA of INSECTS…"
(Roohani Khazain vol.17 p.205) *
he has hinted again and again that he is in-fact better than the Prophet Muhammad SAW....
*Any Hadith (of Holy Prophet PBUH) which is against My Revelation, I throw it away like a waste paper. (Roohani Khazain Vol 19 p. 140) *
*Holy Prophet Mohammed PBUH did not understand the meaning of Surah AlZilzal. (Roohani KhazainVol 3 p. 166) *
*For Him (PBUH) God showed only the sign of Lunar Eclipse, but for me He has shown both Solar and Lunar Eclipse ! Will you still refuse me ? (Roohani Khazain Vol 19 p. 71) *
*Revelation did not inform Holy Prophet Mohammed PBUH about Jesus son of Mary, Dajjal, Donkey of Dajjal, Gog and Magog, and Dabat-ul-ardh. (whereas Mirza's Revelation informed him ! (Roohani Khazain Vol 3 p.473) *
*The Miracle (of Holy Prophet Mohammed PBUH) of Dividing the Moon into Two was nothing but a form of Lunar Eclipse. (Roohani Khazain2 Malfoozat Vol 4 p.391) *
*Holy Prophet Mohammed PBUH did not go to Heavens on the Night of Ascension (Ma'iraj), it was just a Dream . (Roohani Khazain Mafoozat Vol 4 p.118) *
*Poetry (translation): (Recited in the presence of Mirza, who praised it and had it framed) * *Mohammed has come down again amongst us * *He is more glorious than before * *He who wants to see a perfect Mohammed * *He should see Ghulam Ahmad in Qadian. * *(Akhbar Paigham us Sulh, Lahore dated 14th March 1916) *
*I am Adam, am Noah, I am Abraham, I am Isaac, I am Jacob, I am Ishmael, I am Moses, I am Jesus son of Mary, I am Mohammed PBUH... (Roohani Khazain Vol 22 p. 521) *
*Hadhrat Mohammed's PBUH revelation also turned out to be false. (Roohani Khazain Vol 3 p. 472) *
*Holy Prophet's Islam was like a New Moon and my Islam is like a Full Moon. (Roohani Khazain Vol 16 p. 184) *
*In the Inspiration " Muhammadur Rasoolullah, wallazeena ma'ahum..." I am addressed as Mohammed, the Prophet of Allah and God has addressed me as Mohammed, the Messenger of Allah. (Roohani Khazain Vol 18 p.216) *
*We do not need a New Kalima because the Promised Messiah (Mirza Qadiani) is not separate from Holy Prophet PBUH....Promised Messiah is Mohammed Rasoolullah himself, who has come again to this world to propagate Islam. (Mirza Basheer Ahmad son of Mirza Qadiani, Review of Religions, No. 3 Vol 14 p. 105) *
All Prophets use to make Interpretational Mistakes, and every Prophet has shared such mistakes with me. Holy Prophet Mohammed PBUH has also made mistakes. (Roohani Khazain 2 Malfoozat Vol 2 p.224)
"But the fact is that the spirituality of Holy Prophet pbuh (in the form of Mirza Ghulam) in this end of the sixth millenium, that is in these days, is much more stronger and perfect and forceful as compared to those (first) years, like a full moon." (Khutba-e-Ilhamiah, Roohani Khazain vol. 16 p.271)
"The spirituality of our holy Prophet (SAW) was conceived in 5th thousand (ie Makki birth) with its precise attributes and that period was not the the climax of his spirituality's development. It was rather the first step to the highest pinnacle of its perfection. Thereafter this spirituality manifested itself in its full glamour during the 6th thousand (his rebirth in Qadian) at the present time". (Mirza in Khutba-e-llhamiyah, Roohani Khazain, Vol.16, p.266)
*"And God chose such a DESPICABLE PLACE to bury the Holy Prophet (pbuh) which is EXTREMELY STINKING and DARK and CRAMPED and was the PLACE of the EXCRETA of INSECTS…" * *(Roohani Khazain vol.17 p.205) *
aaapke lyye allegation lagaana asaan hai....2 second mien copy paste ki or nikal gaye holiday pe...mujhe lagg jaane hain hafte reading kar kar ke...or reply kar ke....but dont u worry....upon your return you will have answer to all of above...theek hai!
This is absolutly rubbish and lie that he or Jamaat Ahmadiyya ever consider any prophet better then Holy Prophet SAW or in this case Promissed Messiah (A.S) ever considered him self better then Holy Prophet. I will infact proov that Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani considered himself slave of Holy Prophet SAW and said that his knowledge comapring to Holy prophet is like putting a needle in sea and drop on needle is my knowledge compared to Holy Prophet SAW. I will reply to each and every allegation above soon.
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
how can you believe such a person to be a prophet....he calls himself everythin ..god..all prophets names he has attributed to himself....he contradicts himself by praising prophets then calls himself better then them!!!!
he claims to have nice language then calls ugly filthy names to others.
mirza was a loyal to british.(i can post pgs if u caanot believe)
he was always prediting death for this and that!!!
he was against jehad...which he did to get in good books of british.
his dream in post 671 tops everything. i do not have any interest in your replies. you may post them or read them your self. bcz I will never believe such a peson to be a muslim let alone a prophet or a mehdi.
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
why wud it take you weeks to answer hmmm...are you not aware of mirzas TALL TALES before this.
he is your prophet you do not know what he says?????
do not answer
ok. bcz ppl shd search gupshup forum before starting another preaching thread for ahmdi's
bcz these are same points u guys raise like you ppl have been trained in this,
same questions same answers.
why wud it take you weeks to answer hmmm...are you not aware of mirzas TALL TALES before this.
he is your prophet you do not know what he says?????
do not answer ok. bcz ppl shd search gupshup forum before starting another preaching thread for ahmdi's bcz these are same points u guys raise like you ppl have been trained in this,
same questions same answers.
mujhe sarne ki boo aa rahi hai....aap abb buri tarah se phans chuki hian.....mere paas aapki aik bhi allegation ka jawab nahin hai...sirf ye itmenaan hai ke Allah ki madad mere saath hai or wo yaqeenan koi na koi samaan peda karre ga aapki allegation ka reply karne ke lyye....abhi jo 2 posts ooper mene reply ki theen mujhe 2 hafte lagg gaye dhoonte dhoondte sab kuch.
playing in Allah' lap....is that the dream ??????????
telling Allah what shd be done and what wud mirza like to happen????? was mirza's dream/ilham/kashaf
you cannot tell the difference that Allah cannot be told What to Do...mirza is not praying...if u read his writing he said i told Allah this SHOULD happen...u call this praying????
A maulvi whom you can quote is good and molvi who says things against mga and his followers is called names by you ppl???
Urdu mien ye tehreer kuch iss tarah se hai:
aik dafa kashfi torr par mujhe Allah Taala ki ziaarat hui orr mene apne haath se peshgoiyyan likheen jinka ye matlab tha ke ese waaqiyaat hone chahyye hian...
Yahan pe Hadhrat sb (A.S) farmaa rahe hian ke mene kashaf mien kuch dekha or uss kashaf ki taabeer bhi dekhi (kashaf mien hi) ke jo meen likha wo hona chahye. yahan pe kahin bhi Allah ko hukam nahin dia gaya.
jisse abb Allah seedha rasta dikhaana chahye to gupt andhera bhi kuch nahin....or kisi ke lyye khula saaf asman or chamakti hui dhoop bhi kuch kaam nahin aati..
I have made my point on that allegation...aapko nahin maanana to na maane...Allah aapko or mujhe dono ko seedha raasta dikhaaye..ameen
following is the complete quote of mirza dream that i posted earlier
"I saw in my dream that I am exactly God and I believed that I am God, neither my intention remained nor any danger ...... in this capacity (when I was God) I said: We want a new system, new heavens, new earth. Thus I initially created heaven and earth in a condensed form in which there was neither any differentiation nor any arrangement. Then I separated them and arranged them ... and at that moment I found myself capable of doing that. Then I created the first sky and said: 'Inna zaiyanna assamaa addunya be masaabeeha' (We have adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps 67.5). Then I said: We will create human with a potion of clay. Thus I made Adam and I created Adam on the best shape and in this manner I became KHALIQ - Creator." (Aina-e-Kamalaat-e-Islam P.564-565; Roohani Khazain Vol.5 Pp.564-565)
According to the Quran this is what Pharaoh said: Ana Rabbokum alAla. Tell Muslims what is the difference between these two statements?
As I said earlier I am still looking up information on this one. Hence will post something soon Inshallah.
how can you believe such a person to be a prophet....he calls himself everythin ..god..all prophets names he has attributed to himself....he contradicts himself by praising prophets then calls himself better then them!!!! he claims to have nice language then calls ugly filthy names to others. mirza was a loyal to british.(i can post pgs if u caanot believe) he was always prediting death for this and that!!!
he was against jehad...which he did to get in good books of british.
his dream in post 671 tops everything. i do not have any interest in your replies. you may post them or read them your self. bcz I will never believe such a peson to be a muslim let alone a prophet or a mehdi.
becasue you have tendancy to make an allegation and go....never reply to any posts which are in great detail...never read posts or references or view videos....lekin phir bhi hamaare sabar ke pemaane ko dekhien aapki har baat ka jawab dene ko tayaar hain...
ya to aap keh dien ke sorry bhai mien baaz aa gai allegations lagaane se ya sahi tarah reply karrien...copy paste aap kar deti hian without any context ke masla kia hai...abb agla sochta hi rahhe ke allegation asal mien hai kia?