Correction: That's Ms Aramis as she had indicated in a post earlier.
ok thank you...Apology I must have missed the post...BTW I opened a new thread how come everything ended up here?...lolz
Silly person day of lord and lord are same thing. Lord is not a person as you have started to think. Day of lord coming or lord coming both means lord's sign will come quickly without warning. .
So when you say to someone day of the Lord and Lord means SIGNS OF LORD do they seem like trying to bite their lip to hide a grin!!!!!!!
So you've brought up this argument again? Didn't I already prove it to you yesterday that you're translating and interpreting it incorrectly? According to you all Jews and Christians would believe in Jesus Christ before Jesus's death. We all know that Jews for the past 2000 years have not believed in Jesus (AS). Why do you accuse Quran of saying something that is not true.
The correct translation should be "must believe in it (the accusation of Jesus dying a cursed death on the cross)" as mention in the previous verses.
*yes bcz when prophet isa will come then all jews and christians(i am not *
*sure abt u though) will become muslims Inshallah. then the swine will be *
*killed and thus cross will be broken. no i ACCUSE YOU of mistranslating *
the Quran according to your wishes.
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
[QUOTE]
posted by mr popat
Frankly speaking, I dont even know which sect of people here am i really talking to?.. People like aramis comes and tell me heaven and hell is physical place.. (dont know which school of thought shes from)...if
[/QUOTE]
i call my self MUSLIM. School of Thought is Quran And Sunnah.
you read Quran and heaven is described as athing that can be seen felt touched and
where your desires will be fullfilled. where the wine will not intoxicate. Oh Allah Plz send
me to Heaven That YOU describe in Quran. ameen
mr Popat will be happy with dreams of heaven only.
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
[QUOTE]
posted by mr popat
Frankly speaking, I dont even know which sect of people here am i really talking to?.. People like aramis comes and tell me heaven and hell is physical place.. (dont know which school of thought shes from)...if
[/QUOTE]
After Quran that is the divine book we consult , recite and follow. WE do believe in ALL books of Allah but there is change in them and how much or how little change even Mr Popat you cannot tell let alone me or Hannibal. so we are supposed to believe in them not FOLLOW them bcz WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN QURAN.
Do u know what mariyami condition means? Lets hear it from you about what mariyami condition means. :)
Did you know Allah referred momins as Aasiyah? ( wife of Pharoah ) .. do you know why?
Noted ur post 552. Will you accept ahmadiyyat if i explain in detail what Promised Messiah AS meant? Answer in yes or no please.
no i do not know Maryami condition.
Hzrt Asiya was a believer.
NO!!!!!!! what stupid thing to say. if i wont accept that Mirza is nabi or krishna or jesus you wont answer to my post no 552?
naaa sahi. i am not loosing my sleep.
Isa came before Prophat Mohammad. He has LIVED longer does not mean that he has come after RASOOL ALLAH.p.b.u.h.
prophecy of lunar and solar eclipse is false.( even i made mistake of quoting it).. its not even a Hadith. its a lie. there have been many occassions that 2 eclpse happened and there have been many Mehdis also. by the way why dont you believe in them too.
This has got to be the funniest post by you aramis09. ..................................................................... when is Muslim ummah be sending a mission to space to look for Jesus AS?
Oh WE MUSLIMS do not need Mission to space We have Our LORD( not day of lord) Allah.... He take care of such matters. He is All powerfull.
[quote=“d-tox.ed”]
SO you do not accept a word of current Bible?
quote]
do not put words in others mouth. we dont have to refer to bible bcz Allah has sent Quran which is for rest of the worlds to come..I see you tried to make a new thread..(.failed atttempt:omg:).and its full of videos. i am sure there are v good answers to all of Mirza’s own writings. i will try to watch them some time. but basic thing is that he calls himself Mohammad (pg 207 of the link that i posted) jesus even Adam bcz he was born with a twin girl( so he is adam) what abt all other twins being born??? are they Adams too.( or the likes of them)
did i made that “”“allegation”“”" gosh my memory is shot. plz remind me where.???
could not IGNORE me cud you.
I AM STILL WATCHING YOUR VIDEOS OKAY
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
yes i got that the filthy language is not Originally Mirzas But is there a facination with saying/repeating such things??? i cud not finish watching the videos bcz he kept saying it over and over. :vomit:
in this link is it answer to something too? or is he claiming to be hindus leader too..accepting monies from them.
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
and first i wud have to believe in Mirza before i believe that mirza had kASHAF or WAHI from Allah. sorry i simply cannot believe that he had kashaf abt qadiyan when there is this HADITH of OUR LAST prophet
"Do not tie your luggage (i.e. do not travel) except to three mosques: the Musjidul-Haraam, this mosque of mine (in Madinah), and Musjidul-Aqsaa."
(Bukhari and Muslim)
its regarding , visiting for purpose of making pilgrimage. so mirza's kashf goes against hadith.
read my next post plz
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
Aramis,
Qadian name written in Quran is not an alegation made by you. But the sites you are copy pasting the links have this allegation and you would have come onto this one sooner or later..
So I shall wait for you to complete watching the videos on that...
second set of videos about Esa (A.S) that Mirza sb made offensive remarks on Esa (A.S) is a lenghty one. However more or less a complete closure to mouths for those who make such allegations.... This might take you long time to view those set of videos hence i will answer another Allegation in mean time.
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
When the dream originates from a higher spiritual source — such as God or the angels — it is a “truthful vision” (ru’ya sadiqah). This is the term the Mother of the Believers Aisyah used when she described the beginnings of the descent of revelation upon Prophet Muhammad
upon him and his family blessings and peace.
If, however, the dream originates from a lower source such as one’s ego (nafs), the devil (shaitan) or a collaboration of both, it is considered either insignificant or harmful. Examples of nafs-bound dreams are sexual fantasies, dreaming of water when thirsty, wealth or other preoccupations rooted in one’s psyche as well as incoherent narratives. Examples of satanic whisperings are dreams that affect one’s spirit negatively. All such phenomena the Qur’an calls { “a confused jumble” } (12:44, 21:5), hence the Prophet
himself made the semantic distinction: “Ru’ya is from God while hulm is from the devil.” He recommended to recount only dreams of the first type. As for bad dreams, we are ordered to keep their harm at bay by seeking refuge in God from them and strictly never retelling them to anyone.
Islam forbids the interpretation of dreams to all but experts. This prohibition is in recognition of the positive or negative effect dreams can have on our wakeful state and also because of the ineffable connection between their interpretation and reality in light of the Prophetic hadith, “Dreams are one out of 46 parts of Prophecy.” A similar hadith states: “Nothing remains of the beginnings of Prophethood except the good vision a Muslim may see.”
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
now Adding anything in Islam is biddat. if he saw in dream/ kashaf that he saw that qadiyan is mentioned in Quran with Honour..........its a SHAITANI dream.
how wud he know if its from Allah or Shaitan. ;
true muslim wud immediately realise it to be a shaitani dream bcz its NOT TRUE. and who can believe mirza' claims anyway. so far fetched they are. but believing that Isa as is alive is something they cannot comprehend. but his bigger fault is his claim of prophethood.
sorry link is not working....
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
The thread has taken a totally different turn than that intended by the original poster. I don't think anyone is reading this thread except the couple of people actively engaged, so i am going to save you people some of your time by closing it.
If you feel there is a reason to keep it going or have specific points PM me and i can re-open it perhaps as a split thread.
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
Thread re-opened on request of hanibal and d-toxed
alright hanibal, lets try it again.. you said so many times i havent answered your questions that you raised.. (like as if you have answered every questions i asked you..but anyhow).
Agreed. But then again, what is that thing that Dr. Israr sahib really has fun telling? the one eye monster?.. something that will eat fire?? etc? correct me if im wrong but isnt that dajjal?
What do you want me to comment here?.. Frankly speaking, I dont even know which sect of people here am i really talking to?.. People like aramis comes and tell me heaven and hell is physical place.. (dont know which school of thought shes from)...if i quote tahir ul qadri or israr ahmad or zakir naik.. you tell me that they can believe whatever they like.. please let me know who really is the ullama from whom you are getting this false interpretation of Quran from? How about moududi? will it be ok for me to quote him sometimes in my posts?
again, there is no point me saying same thing over and over. My father was a non-ahmadi muslim and i very well know the beliefs sunni people hold. I also tell you the same to not follow anything blindly either.
Indeed by words you are free to say whatever you like. Calling ahmadis with names is more than enough for someone to show hatred towards them. Why would you want to invite us to the true religion when we already are believer of Muhammad Mustafa PBUH and the religion of Allah .. Islam. ? I have repeatedly said.. our belief is the same, only problem is the recognition of the person. I really want to know what would u be called by other Muslims ( who wont accept imam Mahdi ..whoever it may be for u .. ) if you accept imam mahdi and other muslims dont? would you differentiate yourself from Islam? Put yourself in my shoe and answer.
You see what your problem is now right?.. We accept each and every hadith provided by ur side.. when we do the same.. you come up something like the hadith is consider da'eef and classing it fabricated. Same is done when we provide you with the prophecy of lunar and solar eclipse. "it is fabricated"...Very well sir. Take that very hadith and reconcile it with another hadith when Muhammad PBUH says (not exact words..will provide exact words upon requesting), that how would it be when Esa AS will be amongst you and your Imam will be amongst you? This shows that the person Hazoor PBUH is referring to is one and the same. He AS is to be given the title of Esa AS but He AS has to be from the ummah of Muhammad PBUH.
Dont believe in the word of jews. It is against Islam to call books sent by Allah as being fabricated. I know, you are now going to quote me for saying that. I also believe they were being fabricated. But to how much extent? you and me are not here to judge that. Theres also some possibility that the word of God you might be referring to as being fabricated MAY HAVE some verses saved.. again, its not for us to judge that. Jews 'rejected' Hazrat Yahya AS to have come as Elijah AS. Forget about what else they have to say. They rejected Hazrat Yahya AS, and hence for that reason they would not be lying. They were indeed waiting for Elijah AS to come. Theres no question in that. Jesus AS pointing Hazrat Yahya AS to be Elijah AS leaves no room of doubt that Jews at that time were not waiting for Elijah's appearance before Jesus AS himself.
You say, i didnt answer you? Look at your question. Does it need an answer really?.. When I ask you question, dont put another question on top of it.. rather clear it first and then u have the right to question me. ( nothing against this post of yours tho..but countless times i have asked u question earlier which went unanswered... i thought i'd point that out to you too..)
OK. Tell me which school of thought u are coming from? or that if you are with aramis on the issue of death/raised up alive of Jesus AS? So according to you, Jesus AS ( who according to Miss Aramis09 will "NOT NOT NOT" be a nabi ) will come and christians will believe him?.. Very senseless belief. Jesus AS were sent for those people. Them accepting Him AS again make no sense. You will now say that He'll preach Islam. Again, if He AS will NOT be a nabi, how will He AS really understand Islam? What is the need of Allah sending down previous Prophet to preach religion which was revealed to Muhammad PBUH after Him AS? His only mission will be to convert Christians to Islam? When Prophet Muhammad PBUH couldnt do it.. how can a person who is not even a Nabi ,according to aramis09, can accomplish such huge success? I'm amazed how you just randomly thought the last reply i gave you was irrelevent. According to you, all christians will convert to Islam.. what if some dont? will you point a finger then to him being truthful? It is Allah's choice whosoever Allah want to show guidance.. Allah says if i want I can make every single human a believer..its not a problem for him. Why leave this just on Jesus AS arrival? why letting christians die without embracing Islam? Care to explain?
again, you didnt make your point clear.. sure he will not bring new shariyah.. but will He AS be still a nabi? There has never been a nabi of Allah whose purpose is to kill people who dont believe him. Sorry, but this is hard to digest. A prophet whose purpose is to solely kill people who dont believe him. Allah has never given any prophet this right. Why then Jesus AS? (Infact, if you see, He AS will be killing his own people (jews)..) Prophets just fortell that theres going to be disaster if you dont believe him. Killing them, my friend can not be the prophet from Allah.
It is not easy to say that someone is sent by God. You think anyone can claim to be imam mahdi? Show me a person like Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS whose claims were like Him AS and whose jamaat is like jamaat e Ahmadiyya? You have more danger from Christianity but caring less about Hindus, Sikhs , Zoroastrians etc..?
Anyway.. you said Muslims were slaves at the time of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS? u sure? the government of Britain gave Muslims the right to say adhaan out loud when Sikhs stopped Muslims from saying it. Muslims other than that were living peacefully and in harmony .. when were they slaves? even if they were according to you, care to explain who the war should have started against?
Jesus AS miracle is limited to Him. No other prophet of Allah can have His miracles.. his miraculous birth etc is for Him. Esa IBN Maryam is dead, but the mission of Esa AS that is said to be that He AS is to bring people to Islam, Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS did exactly the same.
You said this so many times. Have you realized that? Reason why i brought Miraaj in the discussion is to make my point clear about death of Jesus son of Mary AS. But you're too much into your own childish questions.
Dear Mr. Popat, I thought you are a sensible guy, who want to discuss things with neutrel mind-set, but ur attitude shows different approach.
anyway... lets go to my questions, as i understand from ur reply that, u have no idea about them, i'll try to make them clear to you and see if you chooses to reply me on this occasion or not!!!
My first question was
[quote]
Now, I guess you are referring to Hadees of Prophet Mohammad (SAAW) in which it is said ( not the exact words), that there is no Mehdi except, Essa (AS) and if i am not wrong here, all the Qadayani/Ahmadi belief is revloving around the very concept you have mentioned.
Now According to Scholars of Ilm-e-Hadees, the hadees is either fabricated or is Dae'ef, Scholars like Al-Hakim, Qurtubi and Al Bayhaqi cosider it Da''eef and others like Imam Nisa'ai, Al-Dhahabi, Ibn-e-Tameemah and Al-Sanaa'i classed it fabricated. (ref. Minhaaj-ul-Sunnah, Al-Silsilah-al Da'eef)
***Now the best scenario to suit ur case, is to take Al-Hakim and Qurtubi's view point, which says that the hadees is Da'eef, now you know that an important religious affair cannot be based on some Da'eef hadees, it does not make any logic nor it does carrys any weight!!! or Does it!!!
[/quote]
**
[Question]** I am asking that if an important religous belief can be based on a Daéef/Fabricated hadees.
[The reason] The above hadees is somehow provide/support and/or considered as basic pillar of Ahmadiyat/Qadyaniyat, now when the hadees has been classified as fabricated one and that is hunderds of years before Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadyani claims to be a prophet, then how come the same can be used support claim of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadyani. Imam.
[quote]
You want me to believe the Word of Jews and their testament!!! their books,which are fabricated to an extent where, Allah has to refute all of their books??? These Jews who said that Prophet Yehya ( AS) use to eat locust and grass-hooper and was a dirty man, who was born as in normal.. Well, in case you have not noticed that, The birth of Yehya (AS) was a miraculus birth as well, When Allah All Mighty Told Prophet Zakaria (AS) that he will have a son, and the prophet said, that how can i have son, I am old man and my wife cannot deliver one!!!
the reason i mentioned the interpretation of Quranic verse and About Miraculus birth of Prophet Yahya, jews have fabricated their books, they were wating for the Return of Prophet Elijah (Illyas) (AS), Jews have no no doubtly fabricated their books and i'll not be surprised that in order to compete on Return of Jeses, they have used something like Return of Elijah (AS), who to startwith, have no reason to goto heaven in bodily form, unlike Jesus (AS). I can argue on this notion in length,but it will certainly derail the topic, so I may put forward my question that, in case there are two contradicting divine verses, one from Old-testament and one from Quran, which will you take.. your answer wil help us to sort out this issue as well
[/quote]
**[Question] **Which divine book is more credible, Quran or Earlier ones??
**[Reason] **You are putting forward the case of Elijah (AS) and Yehya (AS) and i am putting forward a comment on that, did Quran tells us the same, do we have to believe what Jews use to believe? Isn't it that their believes were wrong and thats why the Allah All mighty have sent Prophet after Prophet to call them back on the right path and they in reply, either refuted these Prophets or get them killed... So Should i beilieve the words of their book, which is a defected version...
[quote]
Now, for sake of discussion, let say Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadayni was the promised Messiah, and his claim to be Messiah was true, did he did, what the promise Messiah should have done??? Christainity is still there!!! the most important part of prophecy is, the moment Jesus will Return, all the christains will convert, and this will happen in his life time... i am not asking to give me all the chirstains in the world but it seems that the chirstians of India, even didn't bought it!!! Please explain on this!!!!
[/quote]
**[Question] **Asking for the signs ! is this his hard to answer?
**[Reason] **For the Return of Jesus (AS), there are several signs, Like his miraculus birth, he return shall have miraculus effect, now there are ahadees talking about the signs, how many of these signs were carried by Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadyani, if was the promised Messiah? Please refer to my post their i have elaborated this particular question.
So all in all i only asked three questions, which was not answered, in my next reply, i'll try to analyze ur attempt to answer these, which is post # 572 of this thread.
now Adding anything in Islam is biddat. if he saw in dream/ kashaf that he saw that qadiyan is mentioned in Quran with Honour..........its a SHAITANI dream. how wud he know if its from Allah or Shaitan. ; true muslim wud immediately realise it to be a shaitani dream bcz its NOT TRUE. and who can believe mirza' claims anyway. so far fetched they are. but believing that Isa as is alive is something they cannot comprehend. but his bigger fault is his claim of prophethood.
exactly my point...when you believe that Isa (A.S) is somewhere in heavens ..ALIVE! for me its not according to Law of Nature/ Science/ Common Sence and simply cannot happen. However a dream is a dream....
I have made my point regarding the allegation and would not add anything further...as you have told Moderator that you do not wish to make any further contribution towards the thread then I would complete my reply to that particular allegation now.
I will inshallah go on to others one by one later on.