Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
by the way since you and your mirza sb think he is also mohammad(naoozobillah) are u thinking of miza when reciting muslims first kalima....
u never answered
Im not sure if you read my post earlier in this thread when I said I'm a born Ahmadi Muslim but my father is not. He accepted Islam e Ahmadiyyat in his college days. Theres no reason you should ask me to think neutrally, I have done that enough, and so I guess my father has too
Wait a minute, are you saying you have done enough and there is no need for you to think with neutral mind!!! If you cannot do that, how come you can ask others to do, what you do not like or want to do??
1) . My mind ask me question that how can a mortal live for 2000+ years?.. my mind ask me why Allah kept Jesus AS up in heavens when Hazrat Mustafa Muhammad SAAW was given death?. My mind ask me, how is it possible for a mortal to come down bodily, when this has never happened to any mortal before? My mind ask me why Allah is letting jews die before Jesus AS returns and make them all accept him AS?
2) Then you say to let my mind find answers to these questions. Fact of the matter is, my mind has gotten these answers straight from Quran and ahadith.
3) The ONLY verse you can come up with to back up your stance that Jesus AS was raised alive is the verse in which Allah uses the word "rafa'a ". You CANNOT prove that the word means to take someone up bodily. There have been many instances the word ra'fa has been used in Quran and , why do you not take it to mean as literally taking someone up in heavens? The moment you prove He AS is alive bodily, I'll give up Ahmadiyyat and will accept whichever sect of Islam you want me to.
1) Did ur mind ever asked you that how bird flies in the sky? did your mind asked you a question that how Jesus (AS) was born without a father? did your mind asked you a question that how a camel was born from a rock/mountain? did you mind asked you this question that how a Person can speak to an Ant or can control the winds? Did your mind asked you a question that how come the sea can be aparted by hitting a stick? and list is too long my friend, so the day u'll find answer for these, will be the day, you will find answer for the question u r seeking!!! although we haven't reached to that part of the discussion yet!!!
2) My believe, is all the answers are there, Quran says the answers are there, all we need to do is to find them, Quran says, ( not exact words) Man only gets what he aim and tries for, if one tries to find answers for all of above, he can get the answers, they are right there, right in front of you!!!These are the signs which tells you that there is somebody out there who can do, what ever he wants to do!!!and Time cannot restrict him, infact he is the time..
3)As a matter of fact, i haven't reached the stage nor i have given any verse abotu Jesus (AS) yet, are you sure u have quoted me right? We are at very early stage, where i have asked some question, i don't know y u ignored them and came directly to the conclusion, all i did is examined the authenticity a hadees and claim of Elijah (AS)... so far i haven't seen anything with that regard!!!
Since I've given you many evidences from Quran and Hadith regarding the death of Jesus AS, lets have another verse of Quran examined. In Quran , Chapter 5,(al-ma'idah) verse 76 ( for you its 75 )..The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; surely, Messengers* like unto him **had indeed passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman. **They both used to eat food*. See how We explain the Signs for their good, and see how they are turned away.
Have a look at that verse now. If you believe Esa AS to be a mortal then a mortal is required food for His survival. The basis of any mortal is food. Quran makes it clear that not only Jesus AS but His Mother Mary as well.. they both USED to eat food. Not anymore. It explains that they are no more alive. There is no way you can find any other translation regarding that verse.
Now, have a look at this verse of Quran (for you its 7-8 verse of sura al-anbiya ..) where it is clearly saying that : [21:8]And We sent none as Messengers before thee but men to whom We sent revelations. So ask the people of the Reminder, if you know not And We did not give them bodies that ate no food, nor were they to live for ever.
It leaves no room of any prophet to be alive bodily now. They like any mortal used to eat food, and when Allah says Jesus AS, and His mother USED to eat food, that means they no longer eat food.. and hence that means they are no more alive.
Like is said, our discussion haven't reached to this stage yet, nor i have been discussing this particular thing, yet!!! I was discussing something totally different, which you have ignored for some reason... be patient, we will discuss these versus in length and i mean in length... but before that please answer the questions i raised while answering your comments/questions...
Also, explain the event of Miraaj shareef , when Muhammad PBUH met Jesus AS along with Hazrat Yahya AS.. were they alive or dead?
again i fail to see how you connect these to things i asked you in my last post!!! are you trying to divert or is there a question which may or cannot be answered in right and logical manner!!! Mairaj Shareef haven't got into our discussion yet!!!! you have to answer the questions i have raised in my last post, it is not fair nor the discussion can be taken forward if you don't answer them!!!
I'm not even asking you to believe what Bible or Torah has to say about Elijah AS. I only asked you if you believed the coming of Elijah AS was fulfilled by John the Baptist? because Jesus AS himself told Jews that He AS is Elijah..... What do you say about Hazrat Idris AS? According to Mr Tahirul Qadri, He AS was taken up as well.. will He AS be coming back bodily too
Says who, the very people who have fabricated the book, to suit them, the very people who has have to introduce the newer version of their divne books!!! if those books had any credibility, we didn't needed quran.. Normally i use ref. from those books to preach Christains, and nothing more... those ref. are used to show them the logic they have... Now, i am not entitled to answer on Some Tahir ul Qadries believe.. he can believe what ever he wants!!! Now i wonder which Prophet you will bring in the next reply.. here is what Quran has to say about Prophet Idrees (AS)
Verily! He was a man of truth (and) a prophet. We raised him to a high station. (Ch 19:56-57 Quran)
Now!!!Propet Idrees(AS) was born and raised in Babylon following the teachings and religion of Prophet Adam (AS) and Prophet Sheeth (AS). Idrees(AS) was the 5th generation of the Prophet Adam(pbuh). He was the contemporary of Aadam(pbuh) for 308 years and was the first to be made a prophet after Prophet Adam (AS) and Prophet Sheeth(AS). This is the high station Quran is talking about!!!
Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS, added nor subtracted anything from muhammadi SAW shariyah.
You never answered the question i raised in this regard in my last post!!! hint Pen-wars vs real wars
I'm surprised how you did not speak up when Aramis09 accused Ghulam Ahmad AS to have changed the holy Book.
Should i speak!!! Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadyani is not yet a proved prophet not to me, you haven't have answered a single question i raised!!!
The mission of Messiah was to bring people to Islam. Thats what He AS did. Brought many people towards the true religion of Islam. I said that earlier too, that Hazrat Esa AS was a different person who died but his title is to be given to someone amongst the ummah of Muhammad PBUH. Jesus AS had his own miracles, which were only to them. His miraculous birth etc is just for Him. How is it possible that Jesus AS comes back without His prophethood ( as per aramis09's belief ) and Jews and christians will believe him? Jews didnt even believe when He AS was prophet..wat will make them believe Him now ?
In my last post i asked about the signs!!! you answered none!!! now as far jews are concerned, you need to refer to ahadees for that!!! the predictions says that the final war, where the Anti-Christ will be killed by Jesus (AS), all the jews will be killed in the war, even they were hiding behind a tree or stone, the stone and tree will speak up!!! so the only religion shall be Islam!! as the clear signs are that all the christains will convert ( i mentioned this in my last post)
There has never been a prophet of Allah who just by seeing ,people will start believing him. There has always been people opposing them. Even if Jesus AS is to come back bodily, people within you will have something against them, causing not all of them to believe him..and hence the same question " why didnt everyone believe him? "
That was very reason, Jesus (AS) the last Prophet in bani-Isreal, has a miraculoes birth!!! that is the reason, the Return of Jesus (AS) will be miraculous as well!!! that is why the signs have been mentioned, about which i asked you in my last post and you have not answered them.. so some reason...
Theres no way i can comment on the breaking of cross and killing swine if i dont know what your belief is on this ? Is Jesus suppose to actually "kill" all swines on earth or literally 'break' crosses around the world or what is your belief?? please let me know what you think it means and then ill see if we both agree to this or have different views.
let me know you belief, as i think that you owe me some answers and untill those are settled, in a way or other, it is difficult to take the discussion on next level...the reason iam insisting that, the sign of true and divine religion is that the logic never mess up, no matter how you calculate the remain the same, so we should settle the questions i have raised, then in light of that settlement, we can move forward..
As far as Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS not going to war. Well, there was no reason to go to war at His time. Most of the war was with the pen. People publishing all sorts of disgusting stuff about Islam and He AS had to reply back by publishing books over books. If there were people at that time who had attacked Muslims and had taken away their right of freedom and their right of practicing their religion, then sure , He AS would have engaged in a real war..
So you are saying that the war tactics are not changed, and war with swords ( weapons) is still permissable!!! anyway, let me remind you, in the times of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadyani, Muslims all over the world were turned to slaves!!! isn't this enough to go to war!!! muslims were slaves and you are saying that if somebody have attacked their right of freedom!!!, dear brother, Muslims were Slaves!!! they were looking forward to somebody who can come and lead them out of misery!!! and if i understand it right!!! slaves are not free people!!!
The concept of Jihaad as people now understand it is not part of Islam. Killing of innocent people, suicide bombings etc is not jihaad.
who says this is jihad!!! no body is sane mind can classify this as jihad, yes non-muslims all over the world calls it Jihad!!!
Jihaad is to fight with your own conscious, to defend our homes when someone attacks..to save the country we live in against its enemies. This is Jihaad. As prophet Muhammad PBUH once said " we are returning from jihaad e saghira to jihaad e kabira ".. after returning from a war.. naming the war as jihaad e saghira and the jihaad of fighting with conscious as jihaad e kabira.
We are not discussing Jihad, but as i have asked one question, and about answer is remotely linked with it, so i'll definately comment on that!!! Jihad.bi.nafs is difficult, but it never nulify the Jihad bi.saif... or if it does, then all the wars of Prophet Mohammad (SAAW) were null and void!!! including Fatah Makkah!!!
Why should we? When we have answers for them ? But when they say Islam is spread by the power of sword. Dont be offended, because its your very own belief of a warrior messiah that led them to believe this.
I am not offended, but i do tell them, yes the Ulema and Mubaligh can only come and preach when there is no hurdle in their way, Muslims have ruled spain for 800 years, they never implented nor carried out any geonocide of non-muslims, and that was the reason they were in minority, yet when christain took over forced the muslims either to flee, to convert back or to be killed!!!
Anyway, I have noticed and have pointed out above that you have not answered or may have choosen to not to answer any of the questions i raised while commenting/answering your own questions, i don't know y u didn't and i think i have right to know the answers in case you want to take the discussion further.
On the other hand, i'll totally understand if u want to ignore me, and would like to divert the topic and/or want some BigBoi kind of member to put offensive posts!!!
What is wrong with this statement? Any hadith that geos against Quran should be discarded as rasullah saw could not have said anything contrary to Quran. The promise of preservation is about Quran not for hadith. What is your complaint? Are you dull?
PS: This is the problem with copy/paste. You don’t understand what you are copy/pasting but are too mad for loosing the death of isa argument that stupidly digging another hole for yourself.
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
he is saying .....YOU DULL.......hadith that are according to quran and NOT against MIRZA's so called wahis
its ok if hadith agrees with quran but it shd not disagree with mirza's wahi.......i hope you are not calling mirza's dellusions "quran" he is saying anything against his HOLY saying in hadith goes in trash......
look at this beautiful vocabulary of this nabi…
and an answer to post 541(truthfully)
he is saying .....YOU DULL.......hadith that are according to quran and NOT against MIRZA's so called wahis its ok if hadith agrees with quran but it shd not disagree with mirza's wahi.......i hope you are not calling mirza's dellusions "quran" he is saying anything against his HOLY saying in hadith goes in trash......
You are just clutching on straws. The text says AND ie not contrary to Quran..
You are just desperate.
PS: This is the problem with copy/paste. You don't understand what you are copy/pasting but are too mad for loosing the death of isa argument that stupidly digging another hole for yourself.
dont worry abt me...falling in hole. i believe in Quran if that lead to hole let it be a hole you can have the mountain
4:156-159 "That they rejected Faith; That they uttered against Mary A grave false charge; That they said (in boast): 'We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah.' But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. Nay, Allah raised him up Unto Himself; and Allah Is Exalted in Power, Wise. And there is none of the people of the book (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (Jesus) Before his death; And on the Day of Judgment He (Jesus) will be a witness Against them."
You are just clutching on straws. The text says AND ie not contrary to Quran..
You are just desperate.
ok fine ..can a third party (muslim or how abt you moderators!!!) plz comment on the excerpt in post.# 540
please translate the yellow highlighted portion(all)
This has been replied a million times. He (as) is replying to xtians and is QUOTING their information as per Bible and xtian beliefs etc to show xtians how derogatory xtians are to their prophets while Islam gives a respectable place to prophets.
I can’t believe how desperate you are. This is the reason that you only produce a single page OUT OF CONTEXT as anyone who reads previous and following text will know what the discussion is about.
You are really acting very pathetic. You have lost for the tenth time. Now have the dignity to accept it. You are giving your religion a bad name by being so intellectually dishonest.
This has been replied a million times. He (as) is replying to xtians and is QUOTING their information as per Bible and xtian beliefs etc to show xtians how derogatory xtians are to their prophets while Islam gives a respectable place to prophets.
.
but the language he has to use these words???? Prophet Mohammad p.b.u.h was called many names but do true muslims copy them word to word( seems perversion)....they just say that they uttered blasphemous words....since it is a HASHIA so i thot u would say out of context blah blah......
i also wrote check out the vocabulary.
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
Mr Aramis has clearly lost the argument ladies and gentlemen....Thats why you can clearly see from his posts that he is not saying anything related to Death of Esa (A.S).
I dont know what to say. He has read absolutely none of the books...this shows ignorance of this man. He has blindly copy pasting from ANTI Ahmadiyya websites.
He is not willing to discuss the allegations in depth in different thread. He is keep on posting blindly with absolutly no knowledge of his deen and our deen.
I would rather request everyone and I mean everyone to ignore posts made by this man. Moderators I guess have also passed away as I have reported his posts many times that he is simply derailing the subject matter.
IGNORE MR ARAMIS.
now its hard for u to believe that Isa can be alive for 2000 years in heaven…and u cannot figure out what or where is UP that is in ayaat.
but this page tops it all
according to mirza and his followers this is possible!!! yeah right this can happen…
here he goes again… why dont you be the first to IGNORE me.
why dont you declare yourself the winner. EVERYONE the first prize goes to DETOXED
FOR WHINING CONSTANTLY
and it** madam** Aramis to you buster.
but the language he has to use these words???? Prophet Mohammad p.b.u.h was called many names but do true muslims copy them word to word( seems perversion)....they just say that they uttered blasphemous words....since it is a HASHIA so i thot u would say out of context blah blah......
i also wrote check out the vocabulary.
You are desperate. How can anyone believe without telling them the exact words? Anytime you tell a xtians their ulema commit blasphemy they would want the evidence. So the evidence was produced in the same words that xtians used.
...and why am I wasting so much time with you. You don't understand even a word of cut and paste job you are doing. Go do some real reading and come back when you have something solid. Don't quote things out of context, only shows how dull and/or dishonest you are.
IGNORE MR ARAMIS.
DITTO.
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
so WHAT after all ur precious wrote it. and test01 gets second prize …
test01 u cannot answer to my posts either theek 
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
viewer plz take a note of post no 552.
Is god of mirza afraid???
Shame on you..this is a phrase used in bible as well. This is metaphoric speak.
I can’t believe you are so desperate that you are doing jest with God’s word. You are jahil just like the site that you are copying from. May Allah have mercy on you.
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
how do you know its word of GOD?
Injeel is the name of the revelation revealed to Jesus pbuh. The gospels of the Bible do not represent the Injeel revealed to Jesus pbuh. The gospels of the Bible are some man made records which are not holy and had been recorded at least 60-100 years after ascention of Jesus pbuh, for this can find alot of mistakes and contradictions in such gospels. Muslims do not beleive in such scriptures {man made records} but we do beleive in the gospel of Jesus pbuh which is divine and inspired by God to His servant Jesus pbuh. The Biblical scholars admit that the gospel {Injeel} of Jesus pbuh is not there, in another words, it is lost. .