seriously, who cares what Ahmadies believe. It doesn't effect me in any form whatsoever and therefore i have utterly zero interest in what their state of mind is.
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
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I asked did you read the full book before posting the allegation....
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why dont you tell me that mirza did not write those words...hmmm
the pages i posted are enough to know how mirza thought. if anyone has objection about my posts being not related to thread feel free to post it here please....(those 4000 viewers!!)
JazakAllah slickstar for your comment
hadith mentions SON OF MARYAM...hello!!! revelation can be possible for son of maryam( Allah knows best ) he being a prophet.
my answer is clearly stated in post #289.
there is no context like you mentioned at the last para of page it states that christians have written abt many miracles of isa but the truth is he never performed any miracles!!!!!!!!!
The point is, if you believe that there can be no revelation after Prophet Muhammad (SAW), then how will Hazrat Isa (AS) receive a revelation after Huzur (SAW)?
And a book is usually more than one page. That's why I asked you to read more than the page that you have posted. The context will become clear.
You must not read Urdu very well. Answer this: if a Hadith goes against the Quran, then obviously it’s not an authentic Hadith because Prophet (SAW) could never say anything that’s in contradiction to Quran and the world of Allah. What would you call such a fabrication that has been falsely attributed by someone to the Holy Prophet?
"**And there is none of the people of the book, but must believe in him , before his death, and on the Day of Judgment, he will be a witness against them." **Quran 4/159
If the translation you have provided is correct, then it means ALL Jews and Christians will believe in him before Jesus dies. But we all know that there have been countless Jews during the last 2000 years that did not believe in Jesus (AS). How did Allah let all those Jews die in a state of denial of Jesus (AS) in an apparent contradiction to this verse?
The correct translation would be: "And there is none among the people of the book but will believe in it before his death; and on the Day of Resurrection, he (Jesus) will be a witness against them"
Here the "it" refers to the false belief of the Jews mentioned in the previous verses that Jesus (AS) died an accursed death on the cross.
its called common sense.
Quote: the personal station of prophethood that he has will not be taken from him. Instead, he would be like the governor of a province or state who continues to hold that position even if he has gone out to visit some other province or state for some reason. Therefore, even though he is not as a governor in that province, the office of the governorship has not been ipso facto taken away from him.
its an example to help u understand that if he does not come as a prophet or nabi it does not mean he was not a prophet
Taking your example, the second province had a rule saying "No governors allowed". But this governor calls himself just a mayor, and starts performing mayoral duties (in effect, a demotion) even though in his heart he's still a governor, and despite the fact that his clear mandate is to serve the people of his own province only. But this begs the question, why were the people of the second province not competent enough to bring their own house in order? Why did they need outside help? Blessed indeed is the first province who possessed such a capable governor that not only righted their own ship but brought the other ships that deviated on course too. The second province though, seems pretty weak by comparison. It did not have any inherent capability for course correction. None of its people were capable enough to steer it towards the right path, hence foreign help was required.
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
:158Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;- Bal rafaAAahu Allahu ilayhi wakanaAllahu AAazeezan hakeema*n*
:159And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them;-
if it say what you say....believe in it... even then we know last ayat is talking about Allah raising him upto himself, so it means the incident of his not being killed but raised up to heaven.
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
you did not read the page of book sir....'
mirza said he throws away any hadith that does not match the wahi he was receiving....he did not say hadith matching quran or hadith cotradicting Quran(even though its impossible).
mirza thought he is better than Mohammad bcz he can throw his ahadith away!!!!!
Allah knows what can be the context here besides that what its written .
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
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...Taking your example, the second province had a rule saying "No governors allowed". But this governor calls himself just a mayor, and starts performing mayoral duties (in effect, a demotion) even though in his heart he's still a governor, and despite the fact that his clear mandate .............................................................................................................
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is ko ketey hain bal ki khal utarna
#1 Rule of writing reviews on any book is, you first READ the book…
dont jst use other people’s research to tell us wat u think abt the book…
LIKE I POSTED BEFORE
Sayyidna Isa (alayh issalam) will not come into the world at that time designated as Prophet, but he would come to lead the Muslim community as the Khalifa (viceregent) of the Holy Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wasallam),** the personal station of prophethood that he has will not be taken from him**. Instead, he would be like the governor of a province or state who continues to hold that position even if he has gone out to visit some other province or state for some reason. Therefore, even though he is not as a governor in that province, the office of the governorship has not been ipso facto taken away from him.
You guys forget that Allahs Prophets All BROUGHT THE RELIGION OF ISLAM. Chritianity and judaism were the names given by people. Isa brought Islam. Moses Brought Islam. Ibrahim brought islam. those who will be given hidaya( guidance by Allah) christians or jews or those who call themselves muslims will accept Islam. ALL will be Muslims. Inshallah.
common sense?
more like fiction to me :@:
:158Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;- Bal rafaAAahu Allahu ilayhi wakanaAllahu AAazeezan hakeema*n* :159And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them;-
if it say what you say....believe in it... even then we know last ayat is talking about Allah raising him upto himself, so it means the incident of his not being killed but raised up to heaven.
So is the Holy Quran claiming that all Jews believe that Jesus (AS) was raised to heaven? For the love of Allah, please please please do not attribute things to Quran which are false and contradictory.
Why don't you read the verse immediately preceding this and it will be abundantly clear that Quran is talking about Jews' accusation of Jesus's (AS) accursed death of dying at the cross: "That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:- "
you did not read the page of book sir....'
mirza said he throws away any hadith that does not match the wahi he was receiving....he did not say hadith matching quran or hadith cotradicting Quran(even though its impossible).
mirza thought he is better than Mohammad bcz he can throw his ahadith away!!!!!
Allah knows what can be the context here besides that what its written .
Again, I am surprised that you did not read the few lines that you have highlighted yourself. Should I transcribe them in Roman Urdu for you? Here goes: "Haan ta'eedi taur per hum wo hadeesain bhi pesh kertay hain jo Quran Sharif ke mutabiq hain aur meri wahi ke ma'ariz nahin"
Did you just skim over the word "Quran Sharif" there in your haste?
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
BTW he never answered about do sajdon ki dua: Allahumagfirli warhamni wahdeni **Warafaani **wafburni warzukhni
Warafaani again....do you get raised up every day???
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
aramis09, your knowledge towards your very own religion is close to zero. I'm not surprised how you took the pages of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS's book and started accusing Him AS without knowing what He AS was talking about ... you guys are pretty good at taking things out of context. I remember, very early in this thread when i provided you with a quranic verse and it happened to be one verse ahead of what i was suppose to give. ( its due to the fact that ahmadis regard Bismillah to be one verse as well ).. and your reply was immediately that it is not this verse but this verse ( u specifically raised this point that it was not this verse but one verse before that ) this really shows the love of yours towards the Holy Quran that you didnt even care to read the surroundings of the verse i provided,and merely looked at the verse i gave and came and said it isnt that verse. For a true believer, when Quran is shown to him or read to him, He feels to keep on reading/listening it.. but alas such is your love that you have no time to read the surroundings of Quran.. or for that matter the surrounding context of the pages of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS's books. If you cant give time to read Quran, why would you spend your time reading Imam Mahdi AS's books.. ?
ps: hanibal, will reply you later.
Now we do agree that their cannot be any Shairah which opposes/cancel sharaiyat-e-Mohammadi, and if anyone does that is surely an imposter and liar, technically speaking a Dajjal!!!
I never said giving death penalities to apostates have political motives.
Now as of Dr. Israar and Dr. Zakir naik is considered, i do not know which videos you are referring to, and it they have given any ruling on this issue, it need to examined in its context, taking things out-of-context can have terrible impact. Anyway, if this is what they believe then it is their believe and they are answerable on this and it does not have any effect on the credibility of these two scholars. As a matter of fact i am pretty much inspired by both of them, but i donot follow anyone blindly.
I accept you to do the same, participate, think neutrally and let you mind ask questions and let him find answers to them. Do not Folllow blindly, as it can take anyone to the doors of hell.
I don't have any hate for Ahmadies/Qadyanies or Lahori groups or any other religion for that matter. It is, if i hate them, how can i invite them to the true and divine guidance, but i do maintain the stand as per the teaching of Islam, and if it hurts them, then let it be, as i have no control on the truth and i reveal it when ever requried. ( it is like, one have to bear a little pain of injection to avoid a serious pain any illness can cause)
Now, I guess you are referring to Hadees of Prophet Mohammad (SAAW) in which it is said ( not the exact words), that there is no Mehdi except, Essa (AS) and if i am not wrong here, all the Qadayani/Ahmadi belief is revloving around the very concept you have mentioned.
Now According to Scholars of Ilm-e-Hadees, the hadees is either fabricated or is Dae'ef, Scholars like Al-Hakim, Qurtubi and Al Bayhaqi cosider it Da''eef and others like Imam Nisa'ai, Al-Dhahabi, Ibn-e-Tameemah and Al-Sanaa'i classed it fabricated. (ref. Minhaaj-ul-Sunnah, Al-Silsilah-al Da'eef)
Now the best scenario to suit ur case, is to take Al-Hakim and Qurtubi's view point, which says that the hadees is Da'eef, now you know that an important religious affair cannot be based on some Da'eef hadees, it does not make any logic nor it does carrys any weight!!! or Does it!!!
You want me to believe the Word of Jews and their testament!!! their books,which are fabricated to an extent where, Allah has to refute all of their books??? These Jews who said that Prophet Yehya ( AS) use to eat locust and grass-hooper and was a dirty man, who was born as in normal.. Well, in case you have not noticed that, The birth of Yehya (AS) was a miraculus birth as well, When Allah All Mighty Told Prophet Zakaria (AS) that he will have a son, and the prophet said, that how can i have son, I am old man and my wife cannot deliver one!!! the reason i mentioned the interpretation of Quranic verse and About Miraculus birth of Prophet Yahya, jews have fabricated their books, they were wating for the Return of Prophet Elijah (Illyas) (AS), Jews have no no doubtly fabricated their books and i'll not be surprised that in order to compete on Return of Jeses, they have used something like Return of Elijah (AS), who to startwith, have no reason to goto heaven in bodily form, unlike Jesus (AS). I can argue on this notion in length,but it will certainly derail the topic, so I may put forward my question that, in case there are two contradicting divine verses, one from Old-testament and one from Quran, which will you take.. your answer wil help us to sort out this issue as well.
Now, for sake of discussion, let say Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadayni was the promised Messiah, and his claim to be Messiah was true, did he did, what the promise Messiah should have done??? Christainity is still there!!! the most important part of prophecy is, the moment Jesus will Return, all the christains will convert, and this will happen in his life time... i am not asking to give me all the chirstains in the world but it seems that the chirstians of India, even didn't bought it!!! Please explain on this!!!!
Yes, Prophet Essa (AS) will not be bringing any new Shariyah, but there are more things attached to it. One i have mentioned above, and more are like, He'll come at the time when Muslims, where in war against Anti-Christ, the Prophet Essa (AS) will kill the Anti-Christ and as result of that war, Jews will be defeated once for all...
That is certainly not the case here, Jews are controlling the world economy and powers, Christainity is still their in a way or other supporting these Jews.. which prophecy has been fulfilled??? Anyone can make claim of being Mehdi or Jesus (AS) but there are other things attached to the string!!! Isn't it!!!
I guess i answered it above
Please tell me which prophecies regarid Jesus (AS) has been fulfilled by Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadyani, The Birth of Jesus ibn Maryam was an open miracle, his 2nd coming have same signs, please tell us about those open signs???
Non-Muslims says many other bad thing about islam and its history.. so should we believe them all!!!
you should not tell this to us ( the Muslims) but you should tell this to christains and jews and communists that the war is not fought with weapons, and it should be done by pen, hopefully they'll believe you and stop bombing the muslims all around world.
The Prophet Mohammad (SAAW) has himself, taken part in the wars ( the real one),are you saying that the Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadyani have changed this sunnat, and HE have introduced the new war-games, that are fought with pens??? is this what u mean???
Indeed cross is not broken, it is still there, with all the power and controll on the globe, so how the cross is broken...???
I agree, one should have neutral mind set in these kind of debates, and i assume that you practice the same.
Im not sure if you read my post earlier in this thread when I said I'm a born Ahmadi Muslim but my father is not. He accepted Islam e Ahmadiyyat in his college days. Theres no reason you should ask me to think neutrally, I have done that enough, and so I guess my father has too. My mind ask me question that how can a mortal live for 2000+ years?.. my mind ask me why Allah kept Jesus AS up in heavens when Hazrat Mustafa Muhammad SAAW was given death?. My mind ask me, how is it possible for a mortal to come down bodily, when this has never happened to any mortal before? My mind ask me why Allah is letting jews die before Jesus AS returns and make them all accept him AS? Then you say to let my mind find answers to these questions. Fact of the matter is, my mind has gotten these answers straight from Quran and ahadith. The ONLY verse you can come up with to back up your stance that Jesus AS was raised alive is the verse in which Allah uses the word "rafa'a ". You CANNOT prove that the word means to take someone up bodily. There have been many instances the word ra'fa has been used in Quran and , why do you not take it to mean as literally taking someone up in heavens? The moment you prove He AS is alive bodily, I'll give up Ahmadiyyat and will accept whichever sect of Islam you want me to. Since I've given you many evidences from Quran and Hadith regarding the death of Jesus AS, lets have another verse of Quran examined. In Quran , Chapter 5,(al-ma'idah) verse 76 ( for you its 75 )..The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; surely, Messengers* like unto him **had indeed passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman. **They both used to eat food*. See how We explain the Signs for their good, and see how they are turned away.
Have a look at that verse now. If you believe Esa AS to be a mortal then a mortal is required food for His survival. The basis of any mortal is food. Quran makes it clear that not only Jesus AS but His Mother Mary as well.. they both USED to eat food. Not anymore. It explains that they are no more alive. There is no way you can find any other translation regarding that verse.
Now, have a look at this verse of Quran (for you its 7-8 verse of sura al-anbiya ..) where it is clearly saying that : [21:8]And We sent none as Messengers before thee but men to whom We sent revelations. So ask the people of the Reminder, if you know not
And We did not give them bodies that ate no food, nor were they to live for ever.
It leaves no room of any prophet to be alive bodily now. They like any mortal used to eat food, and when Allah says Jesus AS, and His mother USED to eat food, that means they no longer eat food.. and hence that means they are no more alive.
Also, explain the event of Miraaj shareef , when Muhammad PBUH met Jesus AS along with Hazrat Yahya AS.. were they alive or dead?
I'm not even asking you to believe what Bible or Torah has to say about Elijah AS. I only asked you if you believed the coming of Elijah AS was fulfilled by John the Baptist? because Jesus AS himself told Jews that He AS is Elijah..... What do you say about Hazrat Idris AS? According to Mr Tahirul Qadri, He AS was taken up as well.. will He AS be coming back bodily too
Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS, added nor subtracted anything from muhammadi SAW shariyah. I'm surprised how you did not speak up when Aramis09 accused Ghulam Ahmad AS to have changed the holy Book. The mission of Messiah was to bring people to Islam. Thats what He AS did. Brought many people towards the true religion of Islam. I said that earlier too, that Hazrat Esa AS was a different person who died but his title is to be given to someone amongst the ummah of Muhammad PBUH. Jesus AS had his own miracles, which were only to them. His miraculous birth etc is just for Him. How is it possible that Jesus AS comes back without His prophethood ( as per aramis09's belief ) and Jews and christians will believe him? Jews didnt even believe when He AS was prophet..wat will make them believe Him now ? There has never been a prophet of Allah who just by seeing ,people will start believing him. There has always been people opposing them. Even if Jesus AS is to come back bodily, people within you will have something against them, causing not all of them to believe him..and hence the same question " why didnt everyone believe him? "
Theres no way i can comment on the breaking of cross and killing swine if i dont know what your belief is on this ? Is Jesus suppose to actually "kill" all swines on earth or literally 'break' crosses around the world or what is your belief?? please let me know what you think it means and then ill see if we both agree to this or have different views.
As far as Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS not going to war. Well, there was no reason to go to war at His time. Most of the war was with the pen. People publishing all sorts of disgusting stuff about Islam and He AS had to reply back by publishing books over books. If there were people at that time who had attacked Muslims and had taken away their right of freedom and their right of practicing their religion, then sure , He AS would have engaged in a real war.. The concept of Jihaad as people now understand it is not part of Islam. Killing of innocent people, suicide bombings etc is not jihaad. Jihaad is to fight with your own conscious, to defend our homes when someone attacks..to save the country we live in against its enemies. This is Jihaad. As prophet Muhammad PBUH once said " we are returning from jihaad e saghira to jihaad e kabira ".. after returning from a war.. naming the war as jihaad e saghira and the jihaad of fighting with conscious as jihaad e kabira.
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Non-Muslims says many other bad thing about islam and its history.. so should we believe them all!!!
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Why should we? When we have answers for them ? But when they say Islam is spread by the power of sword. Dont be offended, because its your very own belief of a warrior messiah that led them to believe this.
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
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1 Rule of writing reviews on any book
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did i say i am writing a review on mga's book????
i showed pages where he is bad mouthing.
Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?
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"Haan ta'eedi taur per hum wo hadeesain bhi pesh kertay hain jo Quran Sharif ke mutabiq hain aur meri wahi ke ma'ariz nahin"
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and u forgot what comes after this????? after this he said the rest of hadith i throw away like raddi paper!!!!!!
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meri wahi ke ma'ariz nahin"
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this means not in opposition of my wahi...
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. I remember, very early in this thread when i provided you with a quranic verse and it happened to be one verse ahead of what i was suppose to give. ( its due to the fact that ahmadis regard Bismillah to be one verse as well ).. and your reply was immediately that it is not this verse but this verse ( u specifically raised this point that it was not this verse but one verse before that ) this really shows the love of yours towards the Holy Quran that you didnt even care to read the surroundings of the verse i provided,and merely looked at the verse i gave and came and said it isnt that verse.
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oh so what you read quran printed by Ahmdi's. so u count bismilla as #1.....and we dont but we do believe that bismilla was a part of surah . ........you do not know anything abt me. u do not know how much quran i know or not know. u all are just pissed of that ur SO CALLED nabi has such BAD filthy language and every one knows abt it. its ugly isnt it???
