What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

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^^ see.. I knew GS is a great forum for people who are willing to learn. Im gathering information about ur beliefs now.

1 ) Heaven is a physical place.
2 ) Allah is NOT everywhere
3 ) Allah does use metaphorical language.

Note : i'm not even bothered to ask you references for such huge claims you are making as Muslims. I see what you say and when I see Quran saying exactly the opposite then I know theres something wrong. I like Ahmadiyya jamaat as you must have noticed by now, take Quran's word to be right and not anyone else for that matter.

Now, on the 3rd point, I'd like to leave a comment if i may. Allah does use metaphorical language when He says He is closer to you than your jugular vein, but when His Prophet PBUH uses it, it means exactly that. When Allah says He is closer to you than your jugular vein, why is it so hard for you to take it literally? That is not to be taken literally but hey!! when Allah says He 'raised Him AS towards Him', now that must be taken literally, exactly word by word.. no reason whatsoever not to take it literally. Very nice. Choose one belief and stick to it. Either there is room for a metaphoric language or there is not. If i start quoting your very own ullamas, you will start giving fatwas of them being non-muslims ( only if u had the authority ).

Quran as i said is the standard on which we are talking right now. Each and every word is now final word of Allah. The way it is translated creates problems. If we let you take the meaning of some verses the way u want , why not the same right can be given to us?

No, we are not taught anything in "meetings". What did you mean exactly when u said meetings? We are given Quran, Hadith and Sunnah by Allah and His messenger PBUH. Allah also gave us brain to think. We use that. This way we have no need to go to 'meetings', and to watch 'miracles of Quran' or 'miracles of Allah' on youtube etc..to strengthen our imaan.

When you say we are stupid and arrogant and that we have bazzari vocabulary, that is fine..the moment i say something against you... you go all crazy? why such double standards? You are free to leave this debate anytime you want, no one is forcing u to come back here to reply if u have nothing to say. If Im trying to have a healthy and useful discussion here without using the word STUPID or ARROGANT.. what made you say that?

PS: also to add to the list of ur beliefs, i'd like you to answer If Allah was not where Esa AS was and what you mean when u translated that verse " towards me " . Like brahmachari asked, where is that 'towards' pointing to? Only reason for that question is to increase my own knowledge about ur beliefs. I will also look into ur post about the status of Esa AS upon His arrival and will inshallah update the list. The whole reason of me doing it is so that I can draw a line where we as ahmadiyya jamaat differentiate ourselves. It is a very noble cause, please help me with it. Thanks.

Regards,
A Muslim Brother.

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Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

Reasonable Question for you aramis09 : Who are angels in your opinion? physical or spiritual? If physical, ( do they also require food,water etc to live ?.. are they immortal ?? )why can we not see them?.. if spiritual, why then are they living in a physical place called the heaven? If they are not in heaven, where are they? Also, relating to the coming of Esa AS, will He AS be coming down from skies through the help of angels? If so, will those angels be physical or spiritual? Thanks. Seems pretty reasonable question to me.

Islam is not a religion to blindly follow. You will see the greatness of this religion the moment you start understanding the sunnah of Allah. and as you asked, no, i do not know Sunnah of Allah. But Allah says that you will not see any alteration in His way. He is Paak from all these such fairy tales.

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No where in your post has this question been answered by you. If possible, please give me the post # where its answered, and i will be glad to read that. Thanks. As i said point form is more than enough for me. No need to write huge posts just for the sake of getting ur point stronger( because it will not help ). Point form is sufficient and less time consuming.

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Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

I think if its Quran And hadith ..it is to be blindly followed. that is called FAITH.

[QUOTE]
test01
If you want to be arrogant ignorant, that's your choice. The debate on death of jesus has been settled...by eminent scholars.

[/QUOTE]

your friend was using this language and my respond was to him.

When we say SUBHANALLAH...it mean HE is paak from ALL short comings and defects ...i.e. He is Perfection.
when u say it may be it means He is paak from All fairy tale.

the place where our ways separated was when u called mirza prophet, messanger massih or whatever.

do angels not take soul out of body, do angels not make it rain and blow the winds. do angels not write your good or bad deeds, do angels ask questions in grave or not,
When Prophet Mohammad was a boy , one day he was sheperding some goats and two angels came and opened his chest and washed his heart...the boys who were with mohammad got scared and ran to the village screaming that Mohammad has been killed by two men......those were angels...hazrat jibriel appeared sometimes in form of man.................angels are spiritual(as per human understanding) but what they can or cannot carry or do is not within YOUR mind's grasp. did Jibriel not Take Prophet Mohammad on Miraj(if u believe in it) why cannot two angels carry Isa P.b.u.h ?

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Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

oh not only heaven but hell is a physical place too.

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Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

MIRAJ

The Isra begins with Muhammad (570–632) resting in the Kaaba in Mecca, when the archangel Gabriel comes to him, and brings him the winged steed Buraq, the traditional lightning steed of the prophets. The Buraq then carries Muhammad to the “farthest mosque”. The location of this mosque is not explicitly stated in the Qur’an, but is traditionally considered to be the Noble Sanctuary (Temple Mount) in Jerusalem. There, Muhammad alights, tethers Buraq, and leads other prophets in prayer. He then re-mounts the Buraq, and in the second part of the journey, the Mi’raj, is taken to the heavens, where he tours the circles of heaven, and speaks with the earlier prophets such as Abraham, Moses, and Jesus, and then is taken by Gabriel to Allah. Allah instructs Muhammad that Muslims must pray fifty times a day; however, Moses tells Muhammad that they would never do it, and urges Muhammad to go back several times and ask for a reduction, until finally it is reduced to five times a day.[3]](Isra' and Mi'raj - Wikipedia)
After Muhammad returned to Earth and tells his story in Mecca, the unbelieving townspeople regard it as absurd. Some go to Muhammad’s companion Abu Bakr and tell him, “Look at what your companion is saying. He says he went to Jerusalem and came back in one night.” Abu Bakr in reply, tells them, **“If he said that, then he is truthful. I believe him concerning the news of the heavens — that an angel descends to him from the heavens. How could I not believe he went to Jerusalem and came back in a short period of time — when these are on earth?” It was for this that Abu Bakr is said to have received his famous title “Us-Siddiq”, The Truthful. **
(this is faith Mr popat)

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Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

post 266 ...289...451!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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:smack: aayeeee meray Allah

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Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

:rotfl:

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What are you talking about? You have lost argument on death of Jesus... You are rambling now. Stop embarrassing yourself. At least have the dignity or sense to accept when truth has prevailed and you have finally learned something about Islam (the real one) from Ahmadis. If it is not for Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani (as) you have no chance of coming out of the mumbo-jumbo beliefs you guys have such as people jumping to sky (whatever that means). However, for the time being keep believing in fairly tales that your ancestor’s deen bestowed on you, if you must.

PS: I have asked you this question and you failed to reply;

[quote]

I have given you references of Holy Prophet saw, Hazrat Aishah, Hazrat Fatima, Imam Ibn Hazm Amawi Zahiri Qurtabi, Abul Hasan Ali Hajwairi Data Ganj Bakhsh, Hazrat Imam Hassan (ra), Hazrat Ibn-e-Abbaas (ra), Hazrat Jarood Bin Moallaa (ra), Hazrat Imam Malik (r), Allama Qummi (Shia Scholar), Allama Jabbai, Allama Ibn-e-Teemiya, Allama Ibn-e-Qayyem, Mahmud Shaltut former Mufti of Egypt and ex-Rector of al-Azhar University Cairo, Maulana Ubaidullah Sindhi (deobandi scholar), Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, Khwaja Hasan Nizami of Delhi , Allama Inayat-ullah Khan Mashriqi, Javaid Ahmad Ghamdi and Maududi.

Which one of these do you not find credible? If you don't accept now then only Allah can make you understand.

[/quote]

It’s obvious you don’t have the answer hence your unrelated ramblings. It must kill you to realise that the “kuffar” Ahmadis have stronger arguments than the “momineens”.

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well I guess we can probably move onto another topic...I mean a conclusion does not have to be accepted by both parties....usually it is not accepted by both parties anyway....

I guess I have said what I had to say and Aramis and Hanibal has said what they have to say...

Now we can either keep on blaming things on each other or just move onto another topic...I ll suggest move on!

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Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

Post 289 by aramis is :

[QUOTE]
Sayyidna Isa (alayh issalam) will not come into the world at that time designated as Prophet, but he would come to lead the Muslim community as the Khalifa (viceregent) of the Holy Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wasallam),** the personal station of prophethood that he has will not be taken from him**. Instead, he would be like the governor of a province or state who continues to hold that position even if he has gone out to visit some other province or state for some reason. Therefore, even though he is not as a governor in that province, the office of the governorship has not been ipso facto taken away from him.

[/QUOTE]

post 266 by aramis is :

[QUOTE]

“From Anas bin Malik, (Allah be pleased with him) Allah's messenger Muhammad(SAW) said: “Verily, ‘risalat' and ‘nubuwwat' are terminated, *so there shall be neither a ‘rasool' nor a ‘nabi' after me'.
*(Tirmidhi, Kitab-ur-Rouya Babu Zahab-un- Nubuwwa, Musnad Ahmad, Marwiyat-Anas bin Malik)

[/QUOTE]

post # 270 by aramis is this :

[QUOTE]
oh uhooo why dont you read.........hazrat Isa will come as a follower of Prophet Mohammad and NOT NOT NOT as a nabi. he will NOT bring anything new but will follow Quran And Sunnah of Mohammad p.b.u.h......

just keep beating the same line over and over.
[/QUOTE]

post #451 had nothing do with the issue of death/being alive of Esa AS. Hence, not quoting that.

you seem to be contradicting yourself. First settle with your Mullahs what truly is your belief and then come here and talk about jamaat e ahmadiyya. He AS will NOT be nabi, and then you say His AS personal station of prophethood will not be taken from Him?

Again, it still doesnt explain my question of the status of Esa AS upon His arrival?

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Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

Lol Honestly man.. looking back at all the pages we have been having this debate for.. I wonder why Islam had to create differences amongst ummah? why didnt Allah use a simple language which would have been easy for every Muslim to understand, if islam was to be the final religion on the face of Earth.. i mean it wouldnt have been hard for Allah to just put another word after " raised Him AS towards Me " something like.. bodily or spiritually.. :( today, we wouldnt have been having this discussion.. i wonder why Prophet Muhammad PBUH never spoke about the death or arrival of Jesus AS in clear language which would have been easy to understand..why leave us with something that would just make us more confused... No offense to anyone though.. I seriously sometimes think like that. But then again i think to myself after knowing more about jamaat e ahmadiyya, that everything makes sense... and islam really and truly is the way of life. There is always signs within hadith/verses of Quran which lead us to the right path, and answer each and every question that we have.. despite all the confusions about some verses, He SWT also does make things crystal clear in other verses in the Noble Quran. Anyhow, just felt like sharing whatever was in me.. hope nobody (including Ahmadis and non-Ahmadis).. find this post of mine offensive in any way. But ya, something to think about.

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^ i'll give u an example of an appearance of a Dajjal on a donkey...

[quote]

Dajjal would make an appearance on a white donkey whose two ears would be 30 yards apart and between whose legs there was to be a distance of a day and a night's journey. He was to travel on water as well as land was to eat fire and leave clouds of smoke in front of it as well as behind it when it travelled in the land or sea. (Kanz ul Ummal).

[/quote]

Now today when we see trains and aeroplanes and other means of transportations......we easily understand what our beloved Prophet pbuh was referring to. But at the time when he was explaining his people about the means of transportations that the dajjal would have...... he had to use these vocab that people of his time could understand.

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Now there are two terms, One is Ghaddari and other is Irta'daad.. the term is normally used for some one who have betrayed his country, Mir Sadiq and Mir Jafar are well-known for this, they alligned with the enemies of Bengalies and Maisoor and betrayed Nawab Siraj-ud-Doula and Sultan Fateh Ali Tipu. The minimum punishment for this crime is an EXILE.. None to do with the basic Islamic hadood/had.

Coming to the second term, Irta'daad, technically means refuting one's religion, in Islam it means, denouncing Islam and its teaching.. one can have different interpretation for this, but the basic remains the same, denoucing the religion. I guess this is the term we want to be discussing and not Ghaddari as it has some different interpretation.

Now Islam have givent he death penalities in following cases only:

1) Commit a Murder
2) Married and commit adultary, should be stoned to death ( from Hadees)
3) Irta'adad and then help enemies of Islam or declare war on Islam

And like above two, there is a possibility that the person commiting crime # 3, should not be killed, rather his properties shall be seized and he should be sent to exile.

Islam is not a religion of killing for the sake of killing and any one claiming so, cannot back his claims from Quran and Hadees nor from many hisototic events. To make things more clearer, One should re-call the example of Talha bin Kholeed, this guy claimed to be the prophet after the death of Prophet Mohammad (SAAW), but when he saw what happend to Muslima & Co, he ran away in hidding, later he accepted Islam again and fought along side the muslims Army.

So Killing a Ghaddar of Country is something different and killing some body who just have changed his/her religion and is not involved in helping the enemies of Islam or have declared the war is not part of Islam, but for those consider that Mulla is Islam, then it is totally different case.

Now how muslims sees Ahmadiyat/Qadyaniyat..

To muslims, these are the very people who believes in Prophet who is not a prophet as per Islamic traditon and/or predictions, so these people are no longer muslim, they can believe what ever they want to, they have right to exist but if they found guilty for helping enemies of Islam and Pakistan they should be prosecuted accordingly and does not apply on Ahmadies/Qadyanies only, anyone, no matter he is muslim or not, found guilty of same crime shall be executed accordingly...as per the law of state...

Earlier i tried to summarize my answers, that can be my lazyness and burden of home and office work, i'll try to answer this i detail here:

Muslima and Aswad clamied their prophethood in the life time of Prophet Mohammad (SAAW), Prophet Mohammad (SAAW) never launched a campaign against them, as at that time these people were not ( openly) busy is setting up and army against Muslims, nor they had huge support from the Arabs, but with the demise of Prophet Mohammad (SAAW), many of the Arab tribes refuse to pay Zakat, as they consider it a certain kind of tax and was hurting their ego and they wanted certain kind of liberty for their ways of life, which was certainly not possible in Islam. Now these people, joined Muslima and Sajaah, as these two so-called prophets in their shariah gave them what they wanted , with the help of these people, Muslima and Sajaah, raised a huge army.

Now the crime is completed and proved, they have refuted Islam and were in position to invade City of Madina. An Army was sent under Akrama bin Abu Jahal (RZA) which was defeated so an army another the leadership of Khaled Bin Waleed (RZA) was sent and Muslima was defeated and killed.

The point here is not the details of the war, but if any of these Prophets has been real!! or if there was to be a remote hint of any prophet after Prophet Mohammad (SAAW) then, The Prophet Mohammad (SAAW) would have confirmed their prophethood, would have said to Sahabas (RZA) to obey them, but we don't see any such movement in the book of ahadees and in Quran.

Why i say that Prophet Mohammad (SAAW), should have confirmed their prophethood, or the least is, like other Prophet prior to Prophet Mohammad (SAAW), should have predicted about a prophet to come, but we don't see anything of this sort in Quran or Sahi hadees.

Imam Mehdi and Return of Jesus (AS) is the back door or what is say is the thing which enabled lots of people for claiming the either of them or both of them.

For Imam Mehdi, I do say that, there will be a leader in coming times ( as you can see that the ground is being under preparation to wage a war against muslims) who will lead this muslim army. Islamic history is rich with warrior leaders, who have stoodfast against the non-muslim invaders and have defeated them, despite the opposition they have faced from the muslim world. Sultah Salahuddin Ayoubi and his campaigns against Crusaders, Sultan Bebris and his Campaigns against the Tatars & Crusaders are the part of Islamic History. Same would be repeated when the time'll come, here i talked in breif about Imam Mehdi because the Return of Jesus (AS) and Imam mehdi is strongly inter-connected.

Coming the Issue of Return of Jesus (AS), one thing we should note that, Jesus (AS) never had a Shariah in his time, He followed the same Shariah of Moses (AS), His miraculus birth and other miracle is their to bring the Jews back to Shariah of Moses (AS), but Jews were good in killing Prophets and setting up consipracies against them ( and at the same time they were waiting for some NIJAAT-DAHINDA, funny isn't it), So if the Jesus (AS) never had Shariah at that time, how came HE will have the same later?
Secondly as per Muslim believes, Bab-e-Nabowat & Wahi has been sealed, this is what their meaning of seal is, If Jesus (AS) returns back to earth, then HE shall be a reformer, who will follow the shairah-e-Mohammadi ( which is ofcourse the better version of Shariah-e-Mosawi), nothing more as the religon of Islam has been completed and their is no body who add or remove anything from it.

Talking about my belief on Jesus (AS) is no different what Quran has to say about it.. and i believe that it will not harm my iman if i continously carry out the believe i already have stated above.

No worries, take all the time you need!!!

I have answered it above!!!

me on the other hand, would like to discuss the Knowledge and the source of Knowledge of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadyani...

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*In Future, we have asked you this many times. Can you please leave the offensive word Qadiyani? *

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Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

Hannibal, parts of this last post are one of the most enlightened ones from you that I have read. You are absolutely correct. Treason is a crime punishable by death in most countries. For apostasy, Islam doesn't prescribe death, as most mullahs believe. To me, apostasy is a punishment in itself if one is leaving Islam, the most beautiful religion, and choosing another religion or petty worldly gains over it. During Holy Prophet's time, there isn't a single example of a death punishment being carried out because of apostasy. Imagine if all religions claimed to carry similar punishment... then no-one would ever convert to Islam either because then he'd be promptly dealt with a death sentence.

The false prophets, however, were punished because of armed rebellion, treason, and killing of Muslim representatives.

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Very well hanibal. Now we are talking. I'm sorry i said earlier that i will no longer quote you , but now I think we're coming to some conclusion here so i thought i might as well quote you and give my opinion about your post.

Lets talk about the false prophets came after/during Prophet Muhammad PBUH's time. You are openly accepting that they had their own shariyah, and that they were raising an army against Muslims. Now, me and you agree with this that it is not permissible. Anyone caught doing this should be killed. Period. I've repeatedly said, shariyat e Muhammadi PBUH's is now the last shariyat till qiyamah. Quran is the last word of Allah. Anyone claiming to be sent by Allah with a different shariyah, causing it to cancel the shariya of Prophet Muhammad PBUH is surely an imposter, and a liar. Theres no question there. People claiming to be prophets and preach their very own religion are liars. They should be killed and have been killed in the past as you have mentioned, and thats the promise Allah Himself makes.

One is free to change his/her beliefs/religion at any stage of his/her life. When the same right is given to people of different religion, it is also a right given to people in Islam. BUT the condition is, if he/she does not propogate any false teachings of Islam. According to Dr.Israr and Zakir Naik, it is totally different... even if he/she propagates his/her new religion, they should still be killed.

Now as you previously said, that it is not islamic teaching to give death penalty for apostates. It is, as you said all politics. Again.. if i show you a video in which Dr. Israr Ahmad and Zakir Naik themselves are admitting that they should be killed.. what am i suppose to believe?. You... or the ulamas from whom you get these knowledge from?

Coming to the topic of Esa AS. What I am about to type right now , i'd really like and urge you to try to think about it with a very neutral mind. Inshallah the hate you have towards jamaat e ahmadiyya will vanish within seconds. Inshallah. You and I both believe that there are hadiths about His arrival. Where we have different belief is that whether He'll be coming bodily or His name/qualities/title should be transferred/ given to someone else. As Hadith says that He AS will be following the shariyah of Muhammad PBUH, and not any other. Question now is : Bodily or title will be given to someone amongst the ummah of Muhammad PBUH? We as ahmadis believe that Prophet Esa AS died a natural death and is no longer be coming back bodily. He AS as we believe him to be , was a true prophet of Allah and like any other prophet.. was a human being and was mortal. .. and the hadith mentioning about the coming of Esa AS is actually referring to Imam Mahdi AS himself. There has never been an instance ever since the creation of this universe when Allah SWT has ever 'raised' somoene towards Him bodily and took Him up with him and send him down whenever ordered. This is a very ignorant thought.. (when i say this , dont even think im disrespecting Him AS in any way naozubillah). When Hadith talks about Hazrat e Isa AS and His arrival, He SAW meant Imam Mahdi AS. He is to be given the title of Isa AS.

Think about prophet Elijah AS ( Iliyaas AS). He AS was said to be taken up as well. When Jews asked Jesus AS that before you, Elijah AS was suppose to appear and asked where He AS was. The reply given to Jews by Jesus AS was that this prophecy has been fulfilled in the form of John the Baptist ( Hazrat Yahya AS ). No surprise, since Jews habit was/is to take every single thing told to them literally, they rejected Jesus AS and Hazrat Yahya AS. Please dont let this habit of Jews overtake you as Muslims. Promised Messiah AS says :
Zahoor e Mahdi e akhir zamaaN hai
Sambhal jao ke waqt e imtehaaN hai.

Think exactly like that when you speak about the arrival of Jesus AS. He AS is not to be coming from skies bodily but His title of Messiah is to be given to someone amongst Muslim Ummah.

As per your saying, He AS will NOT be bringing new shariyah and will be following the shariyah of Muhammad PBUH. Think about Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS). He (AS) never brought new shariyah and since the title of prophet to Him was given by Prophet Muhammad PBUH Himself ( when talked about Esa AS ), He we then believe was a non-law bearing prophte ( exactly as per your belief ).

Second point you raised about the belief of Muslim regarding Jesus AS. Jesus AS was/is/and will be a nabi. The title of Nabi is given to Him by Quran itself. Hadiths also mention Him various times as the prophet of Allah. He AS as you and I both agree will be following Shariya e Muhammadi SAW and will not add nor subtract anything from the complete religion of Islam. Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS ( a nabi , given the title by none other than Allah in Quran, and in many hadith ) , and Jesus AS will not add or subtract anything from Islam ( Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS never claimed a prophet of its own, He AS mentioned various times that whatever He AS is , is due to being the servent of the servents of Prophet Muhammad PBUH. ) He says in one of His nazams :
Wo Peshwa hamaara jis se hai noor saara
Naam uss ka hai Muhammad (SAW) dilbar mera yehi hai.
Thus He AS claiming of Messiah is also clear and Him being claimed as nabi as well. I would like to quote Him AS again...What beautiful way of learning the beliefs of Jamaat then the leader Himself.. He (AS) says in one of his nazam and i quote:

*Har taraf fikar ko dorhaa ke thakaaya hum ne *
*Koi Deen Deen E Muhammad (SAAW) sa na paaya hum ne *
Subhaanallah. Indeed indeed. (i hope u liked it).

When you hold the belief that He AS will come and will come as a nabi ( perhaps you didnt say it and used the word reformer, but I can quote your ullamas if you want ), and will not bring any new law which will cancel the shariya of Muhammad PBUH.. you are considered Muslim. The moment we ACCEPT that person, we are outside the fold of Islam? Talk about being just and fair.

Every single belief regarding Jesus AS is fulfilled on Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS. One needs an unbiased and neutral mind to think about it. His coming, Him being called nabi.. Him killing swine and breaking the cross. Then the great prophecy of lunar and solar eclipse for the arrival of Imam Mahdi, the arrival in around 14th century.. etc.

Here i'm remembering this very nice saying of Imam Mahdi e Maseeh e Maood AS.. He AS says :

Waqt tha waqt e Maseeha , na kisi aor ka waqt
Mein na aata to koi aor he aaya hota.

and then what beautifully he AS says :
Kyun Ajab Karte ho Gar Mein aa Geya Ho Kar Masih
Khud Masihaai Ka dam , Bharti hai ye Baad E Bahaar.

I now see the reason why non-muslims say Islam is spread by sword.. When Muslims themselves claim that Messiah will come who will lead them in war ( a real one you think.. ).. Islam has never spread like that. Its spread with continuous prayers and sacrifices. Perhaps you and I didnt witness the war Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS fought but millions of people at that time witnessed and even today say that He AS fought with pen against the allegations made on Allah's deen Islam by Aryaan and Christians at that time. When all the ullama e deen were sleeping, He AS alone took the challenges and defeated them , causing many of them to embrace Islam. War my friend is not only with sword, which will only create chaos at that moment but the war of pen is something that leaves its signs for generations and generations to come. If the books written by Aryaans and Christians at that time against Islam were to be there today.. we would have led so many innocent Muslims go astray by letting them leave the beautiful deen Islam. He AS engaged in wars and defeated them. ( killed swine, break crosses and was continuously in war ).

These things as i earlier said requires one to have a very clear mind with no hatred towards our jamaat to realize the truthfullness of this great deen of Allah. We truly regard Quran to be the perfect book and what greatly He AS sums this up too.. He AS says in his nazam regarding the greatness of this Noble Holy and divinly Book :
Hai Shukar e rabb e azawajal kharijaz bayaaN
Jis ke Kalaam Se Hamein Uss ka Mila NishaaN.

sigh i feel like quoting Him once again..
Jamaal o Husn e QuraaN Noor e Jaan Har MusalmaaN hai
Qamar hai Chaand aoroN ka, Hamaara Chaand Quraan hai.

PS: i just realized i quoted Him AS a little more than i wanted, but o well, maybe these little sayings from His numerous nazams will make someone know Him a little better, and who know may eliminate hate from someone's heart. The sayings fitted so well as i was making my point that i had to quote Him AS, it just makes the post more interesting to read.

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Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

^^Great Post Mr Popat...I dont think I can add anything to what you wrote.

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Well like i said, u r free to join and quit anytime u like, so this gives you freedom of quoting me or just ignoring me on ur likes and dislikes..

Please bear with me, you have raised some good points in ur post, i'll summarize my reply and post it in day or two...