What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

Society Religion & Philosophy
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wah wah wah… Maulana Manzoor Chinioti sb ki ye kitaab yaqeenan parhne ke qaabil ho gi…kisi ke paas online link hai?

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Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

Lets all pay more attention to our own fundamentals before we look at others.

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Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

I persoanlly think its not fair with Hanibal and Aramis as they 2 have to reply to I dont know 4 or 5 of us.

I mean to be fair we should have equal number of team members at both side...now I cannot change my side to move to theirs but I will persoanlly request if others who have knowledge or say enthusiaism to join the debate and help our Muslim brothers on ther side.

My purpose is not to win or loose. The purpose of my discussion is to convey the Fundamentals of Ahmadiyyat. i.e why we say Hadhrat Esa (A.S) has passed away etc

I guess others who reply surely have the right to accept what I say or reject as Holy Quran say La iqraaha fiddeen...there is no compulsion in matter of faith.

I undestand Hanibal would love to have Mod taking part in debate and personally I have no issue with that however things come to a stage where everyone looses their heads and Mod takes the action.

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Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

EDIT- post made below.

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BODILY ASCENSION OF ESA (A.S) - THE ORIGIN OF THIS BELIEF

It is popular among many that Esa (A.S) was not crucified but ‘taken up into heaven alive’ and will be coming back (in his own person) before the Day of Judgement. Almost all over the World, many people have this belief as an article of faith. Where does this belief originate from? In very clear terms it is to be found in the Bible. Here are some references:

ASCENSION OF ESA (A.S):

“So then, after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was RECEIVED UP INTO HEAVEN, AND SAT ON THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD.” - MARK 16:19

“And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, AND CARRIED UPINTO HEAVEN.” - LUKE 24:51

The above verses from the Christian Bible leave no ambiguity in demonstrating that the Ascension of Esa (A.S) is Christian idea. Further more the Jews also have the concept of 'bodily ascension into heaven regarding "Elijah", as stated in the Jewish scriptures:

“And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; AND ELIJAH WENT UP BY A WHIRLWIND INTO HEAVEN.” - KINGS 2:11

“And Enoch walked with God; and he was not; FOR GOD TOOK HIM.” - GENESIS 5:24

Apart from these many other faiths also have the concept of a coming ‘Saviour’ and Ascensions in body. As we have seen that this faith is that of the Jews and the Christians, now let us proceed to see as to what does Al-Qur'an say about this matter.

It should be kept in mind that to be a Muslim one has to believe in and agree with what the Qur'an is saying. Even the slightest disagreement with the Qur'an invalidates the claim to be a Muslim. (See 41:26)

Non-Ahmadiyya Translation: 26. The Unbelievers say: "Listen not to this Qur'an, but talk at random in the midst of its (reading), that ye may gain the upper hand!"

DEPARTURE OF ESA (A.S) FROM THIS WORLD- A QURANIC PERSPECTIVE

When Esa (A.S) (p) propagated the message of Allah, and invited people to obey the laws of Allah alone, the Religious leaders and Priests felt threatened, as in a Social order where subservience and obedience is only for Allah's Laws, there is no room left for the Clergy and they in turn showed severe opposition to the mission of Esa (A.S):

“But when Isa perceived UNBELIEF on their part, he said Who will be my helpers in Allah's way? The disciples said: We are helpers (in the way) of Allah: We believe in Allah and bear witness that we are submitting ones .” (3:52)

Non Ahmadiyya Translation: 52. When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah." Said the disciples: "We are Allah.s helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims. 


Now the unbelievers in Esa (A.S)' message plotted to stop the message of Allah from gaining ground, so they plotted against the person of Esa (A.S). 

“And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.” (3:54) 

Non Ahmadiyya Translation: 54. And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.

But Esa (A.S) himself stated that the unbelievers would not be able to kill him but instead his death would be in peace:

“And PEACE IS ON ME on the day I was born, and on the DAY THAT I DIE, and on the day I shall be raised up to life (again).” (19:33)

Non Ahmadiyya Translation: 33. "So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"! 


Allah himself assured Esa (A.S) that the unbelievers will not kill him, instead it is Allah who will complete his period of life and cause him to die, as said in the following verse: 

“Lo ! God said: `O Esa (A.S)! Verily I shall cause thee to die, and shall exalt thee unto me, and cleanse thee of those who are bent on denying the truth; and I shall place those who follow thee above those who are bent on denying the truth, unto the day of resurrection. In the end unto Me you all must return, and I shall judge between you with regard to all on which you were wont to differ.” (3:55) 

Non Ahmadiyya Translation: 55. Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

I have posted a detailed note on meaning of Mutawaffika meaning death and some more references are in post below.

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Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

**Some more Verses of Holy Quran where Allah (or His angle) does “Tuvafa” and human being is one whose “Tuvafa” is done means seperation of soul from body (i.e. death): **

“Our Lord! surely we have heard a preacher calling to the faith, saying: Believe in your Lord, so we did believe; Our Lord! forgive us therefore our faults, and cover our evil deeds and** MAKE US DIE** with the righteous.” (3:193)

Roman Arabic: Rabba na inna na samena munaadi yanyunaadi lil imaani an aminoo birabbikum fa aamanna. rabba na faghfirlana zanoobana wa kaffir anna sayyeaatena watawaffana ma’al abrar.

Non-Ahmadi Translation: 193. "Our Lord! we have heard the call of one calling (Us) to Faith, ‘Believe ye in the Lord,’ and we have believed. Our Lord! Forgive us our sins, blot out from us our iniquities, and take to Thyself our souls in the company of the righteous.

 
“And you do not take revenge on us except because we have believed in the communications of our Lord when they came to us! Our Lord: Pour out upon us patience and **CAUSE US TO DIE** <tuwaffana> in submission.” (7:126) 
 
Non-Ahmadi Translation: **126.** "But thou dost wreak thy vengeance on us simply because we believed in the Signs of our Lord when they reached us! Our Lord! pour out on us patience and constancy, and **take our souls** unto thee as Muslims (who bow to thy will)!

“My Lord! Thou hast given me of the kingdom and taught me of the interpretation of sayings: Originator of the heavens and the earth! Thou art my guardian in this world and the hereafter; MAKE ME DIE A MUSLIM and join me with the good.” (12:101)

Non-Ahmadi Translation: 101. “O my Lord! Thou hast indeed bestowed on me some power, and taught me something of the interpretation of dreams and events,- O Thou Creator of the heavens and the earth! Thou art my Protector in this world and in the Hereafter. Take Thou my soul (at death) as one submitting to Thy will (as a Muslim), and unite me with the righteous.”

 
“But how will it be when the angels **CAUSE THEM TO DIE** <tawafat'hum> smiting their backs.” (47:27) 

Non-Ahmadi Translation: **27.** But how (will it be) when the angels **take their souls at death**, and smite their faces and their backs?

“And Allah has created you, then He CAUSES YOU TO DIE <yatawaffa’kum>, and of you is he who is brought back to the worst part of life, so that after having knowledge he does not know anything; surely Allah is Knowing, Powerful.” (16:70)

Non-Ahmadi Translation: 70. It is Allah who creates you and takes your souls at death; and of you there are some who are sent back to a feeble age, so that they know nothing after having known (much): for Allah is All-Knowing, All-Powerful.

 
“O people! if you are in doubt about the raising, then surely We created you from dust, then from a small seed, then from a clot, then from a lump of flesh, complete in make and incomplete, that We may make clear to you; and We cause what We please to stay in the wombs till an appointed time, then We bring you forth as babies, then that you may attain your maturity; and of you is he who is **CAUSED TO DIE** <yutawaffa>, and of you is he who is brought back to the worst part of life....” (22:5) 
 
Non-Ahmadi Translation: **5.** O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are **called to die**, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much), and (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs).

Say: The angel of death who is given charge of you shall CAUSE YOU TO DIE , then to your Lord you shall be brought back.” (32:11)

Non-Ahmadi Translation: 11. Say: “The Angel of Death, put in charge of you, will (duly) take your souls: then shall ye be brought back to your Lord.”

 
Source of Non Ahmadi Translation: [The Holy Quran](http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/Surai.htm)
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Typical reply

are u talking on Mr. Popat's behalf, and he is bound to obey ur commands????

pass a message as Mr.popat seems not to understand any one else, can he answer the my post.... if yes, thing can be taken to next level i.e/ more details.. but i guess No Qadyani want to discuss Qadyaniyat in detail!!!

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U are free to quit and join back, you are free to assume and comment.. but it is not neccessary that all these assumptions are right… I have heard of this book but never got it in hand…

to refute the Qadyanism or any other man-made religion only few ahadees, Quranic verses and logic is enough

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Please bear with me, i'll reply in detail!!!

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yaar abb esa to na kaho...itni mehnat ki hai mene koi 3 ghante lagaaye ye post number 445 and 446 tayaar karne mien.

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Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

[quote]

If you think that some twisted interpretation of a verse is a “proof” of such an extraordinary event of Jesus flying through space without a space ship like a superman then you must think we are too stupid.

[/quote]

Oh now you understand twisted what was it when you were trying to fit meaning of SEAL OF PROPHETS in SEAL OF APPROVAL......

As for raafi'uka ilayya (And I shall raise you towards Me), the meaning is clear. Addressing Jesus here, it has been said: "I shall raise you towards Me". Every one knows that Jesus is not the name of just the spirit but that of the spirit and the body of Jesus. Now taking the raising of Jesus in the sense that the act of raising was spiritual only, and not physical, is all wrong. As far as the word, raf' (raising) is concerned, there are occasions when it is also used to indicate raising of ranks as it appears in the following verses of the noble Qur'an:
"Rafa'a ba'dakum fawqa ba'din darajaatin" (6:165) **
**...and raised some of you in ranks over others
*"Yarfa'illahullazeena aamanoo minkum wallazeena ootul'ilma" (58:11) *

and Allah will raise up in rank those of you who believe and those who have been given knowledge."So, it is obvious that the word, raf' : raising, in the sense of the raising of rank or status has been used figuratively in view of the context of the aforementioned verses. There is no reason here to ignore the real meaning and go by that which is figurative. Moreover, by using the word, ila (towards) alongwith the word, raf' (raising), at this particular place, the possibility of such a figurative meaning has been totally eliminated. What is said in this verse is raafi'uka ilayya: I shall raise you towards Me. Then there is the verse from Surah al-Nisa (4:158), which refutes the belief of Jews; there too, what was said is "wa maa qataloohu yaqeenan barrafa'ahullahu ilayhi" that is, the Jews certainly did not kill Jesus, instead, Allah raised him towards Himself. This later expression is used for nothing but the raising alive of the spirit and the body

plz refer to my posts#266. 289...376....289....412 and 422
so i do not have to repeat my self.

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Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

YES i have no doubt in MIRAJ or that Heaven And hell will be physical things.

for miraj:
In the Surah al‑Isra (Sarah 17 ‑ also known as Bani Isra`il), it is mentioned:

"Glorified be He who carried His servant at night from Masjid al­ Haram to Masjid al‑Aqsa, the precincts of which We have blessed so that We may show him of Our Signs. Verily He is the All­ Hearing, the All‑Seeing.

Surah al‑Najm, Verses 12 to 18

"Will you then argue with him about what he saw? He certainly saw him (Jibra'il) during his other ascent to the Lote‑tree (in the seven heavens) near which is Paradise. When the tree was covered with a covering, (Muhammad's) eyes did not deceive him, nor did they lead him to falsehood. He certainly saw the greatest (signs) of the existence of his Lord.''

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Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

^ thank you.

Please answer in point form if you can.. what is ur belief regarding the coming of Esa AS? Will He AS be divinly guided? Will He AS have his prophethood with Him? what will His mission be? Will He AS be born or will come directly from heaven ( a physical place as u mentioned )? Lastly, how will Muslims recognize Him? Thanks. Point form , if possible. As my intention now is to learn your fundamental beliefs, so i can draw a line where we differentiate ourselves.

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Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

plz refer to my posts .....i have answered it earlier.

Super and Permanent Lotay Joining Imran Khan's PTI
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Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

my question to all Ahmadyss..
aap sab kyoon behas kar rahe hain??? maine is forum pe bohat se topics dekhe hain about ahmadiyat..Numb bhai and others ne bohat details se jawab diye hain,lekin y elog samajhne ki bajaye ulta galiyon pe a jate hain..islye mera khayal hai in logon ko inke haal pe chod dena chahye.inse behas ka koi faida nahi hai...
ap log kyoon apna time waste kar rahe hain??? pehle yahan koi sawal karta hai qadianiyat kya hai..phir ye mil kar burai karte hain humari..koi jahil kehta hai koi fitna kehta hai...koi kuch kehta hai........jab hum inhe jawab dena chod denge to ye khud hi baaz a jayenge...
what u think??

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sawaal karna inka haq hai or jawaab dena hamaara farz...aap abb dekhien 4000 views hue hian iss thread ke...kam azz kam logon ko hamaare deen imaan ke baare mien kuch to pata challe ga...abhi logg hian jo kehte hian hamaara kalma alag hai ham ye hain wo hain...
so what do you thinkif we continue our strugle...?

Sing a Song according 2 Ur Mood !!!!!
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Have you seen all the references I posted on death of jesus? Do you know better than your own ulema?

If you want to be arrogant ignorant, that's your choice. The debate on death of jesus has been settled...by eminent scholars.

I have given you references of Holy Prophet saw, Hazrat Aishah, Hazrat Fatima, Imam Ibn Hazm Amawi Zahiri Qurtabi, Abul Hasan Ali Hajwairi Data Ganj Bakhsh, Hazrat Imam Hassan (ra), Hazrat Ibn-e-Abbaas (ra), Hazrat Jarood Bin Moallaa (ra), Hazrat Imam Malik (r), Allama Qummi (Shia Scholar), Allama Jabbai, Allama Ibn-e-Teemiya, Allama Ibn-e-Qayyem, Mahmud Shaltut former Mufti of Egypt and ex-Rector of al-Azhar University Cairo, Maulana Ubaidullah Sindhi (deobandi scholar), Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, Khwaja Hasan Nizami of Delhi , Allama Inayat-ullah Khan Mashriqi, Javaid Ahmad Ghamdi and Maududi.

Which one of these do you not find credible? If you don't accept now then only Allah can make you understand.

SAY THANKS,my thanks 4 PAKi RANA@
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And when Allah says "raise you towards me", where exactly does this "towards" point to? Is Allah up in the heavens? Can you point a place where Allah is? Was He not at the place where Jesus (AS) was being crucified?

Quran tells us that Allah is omnipresent. He is everywhere. Why would Allah say he'd move Jesus towards Him when Allah was already there where Jesus is moving from?

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Brahmachari, I asked this same question you asked twice (quoting myself here), but seems to not get an answer from anyone here. One thing is clear to me now is that non-ahmadis believe heaven to be a physical place rather than spiritual. I'd appreciate if someone answer me with this question as well. The one raised by brahmachari as well as me. Thanks.

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Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

Islam is all about faith isnt it. if i cud tell you or show you Allah you wud have to be killed then. you wud not get a second of respite from azaab e ilahi. u think Allah is present physically everywhere then you are wrong. when Allah says i am closer to you than your jugular vein does it mean Allah is in YOUR neck ????????? you are ARROGANT AND YOU ARE STUPID. YOU guys have a bazari vocabulary. do they teach u that in ur meetings
what do you know Allah's sunnah is. do you have a direct line with HIM. Islam is all about faith. i read a post by hitchki which sums up nicely

[QUOTE]

You may argue by the Koran and Hadith, but very cleverly you can get some "Ahmedi" Korans. Both convenient and religion-lite. And as great as that is, the two different points of reference make any comparative arguments a little moot (as religion is based on the irrational by definition). get a new name. I like Cleopatra

[/QUOTE]

read my posts if you wish. i HAVE answered your questions. i feel like you wud like nothing better than to lengthen this thread. if i see any reasonable question not asked before i will reply.

a muslim mother