What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

Society Religion & Philosophy
421

how this guy tries to confuse the people. This whole post makes no sense to me. Has Paul any connection with Isa'a (as) death? What do you want to say?

You make no sense at all! I do not understand that! Isa (as) was death for them so he could introduce Trinity and Divinity in the Christian faith!

am I dumb or am I the only finding no sense in this crap at all?

422

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

Allah also says: “Behold! Allah said: ‘O Jesus! I will take thee (mutawaffika) and raise thee to Myself (wa rafi`uka ilayya) and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto Me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.’” (Al `Imran: 52-55)

Ibn Jarir states: “(mutawaffika) here refers to his ascension”. Other scholars, however, say that it refers to sleeping as is the case with the verse that reads: “It is He who doth take your souls (yatawaffakum) by night, and hath knowledge of all that ye have done by day: by day doth He raise you up again; that a term appointed be fulfilled; In the end unto Him will be your return; then will He show you the truth of all that ye did.” (Al-An`am: 60)

On getting up, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) used to say: “Praise be to Allah Who brought us life after he caused us to die and unto Him will be our turning back.”

Therefore, Jesus did not die; rather, he was taken up when the Jews tried to arrest and kill him and he will come back at the end of the time and rule the land with Islam. He will live till Allah causes him to die and will be offered funeral prayer by Muslims.”

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Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

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am I dumb or am I the only finding no sense in this crap at all?
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YOU hit the nail on the head, bigboi!(on both accounts) :)

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Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

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The word here used is 'rafa' which u literally take it as 'raised up to heavens". One need to keep in mind that heaven is not a physical thing. It is where people go after their death.

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Mr Popat are you munkir of Miraj also??**

425

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

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And in 4:159 it is said, "There is none from the People of the book, but shall certainly believe in him before he dies." This verse indicates that 'Isa (Alaihis Salam) will come again to this world before the Day of Judgement, and then all the people of the Book will truly believe in him before he dies a normal death.

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popat bigboi what do you say to the above quote.....if an occasional post goes out of topic soo what,.......what is related to topic in following post?????

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by this statement your proved how low you yourself are! You cannot discuss with anyone. All I see is repeated false accusations!

jaa, mera joota ka jaa kar!

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426

aramis09, don’t waste your time trying to defend the indefensible. Here are some references to scholars who believe Jesus is dead; http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-scripture/316863-what-marzee-religoin-way-3.html#post6442860

Major scholars from major denominations agree to this belief. Now either you are wrong or they are.

If you think that some twisted interpretation of a verse is a “proof” of such an extraordinary event of Jesus flying through space without a space ship like a superman then you must think we are too stupid. If your argument is that Allah can do anything then let’s believe all the myths that Hindus and other religions throw at us too as Allah can do those too.

Fact is there is no proof whatsoever that Jesus descended to anywhere outside this world alive. Fact is people who claim this don’t have any idea what they are talking about. They just take a word rafa and then come up with such an elaborate story out of it to shame best Hollywood script writers.

I have been through this discussion before and am reluctant to go through same arguments again but am intrigued as to what is this “Up” as you have said above? Where does this “up” exist? Please provide proof.

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Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

aramis09, please try to convince your own scholars first that Jesus did not die a natural death and instead was raised alive to somewhere. You have an internal battle to fight buddy. Ahmadis only believe what these scholars believe and death of Jesus is not a belief exclusive to Ahmadis.

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Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

Aramis

mere dost yaar rafaa ka matlab to confirm kar lo....i dont have any issue with the translations you provided until word rafaa meanings are cleared.

do you say that Allah meant Rafaa at one stage of raising up alive and then in other places of death?

429

mere dost Miraj bhi aa jaayien gai Hadhrat Esa ka topic cover kar lo..

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Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

No solution for Qadianies ...... jo fitna jahil loogoon say chala tha wo aaj deen hai ... wah

431

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

^

what a jahil comment, isn't it?

:D

432

Dekhoo .. in batoon kay repetition ko several times sun chaka hoon ..... aap ko aisay kabhi bhi samajh nahi aayae gee .. sure baat hai .... bcoz jub Hazrat Mohammah (pbuh) nai farma dia tha k fitnay hoon gay to zahir sii baat hai .. fitna koi simple cheez too hoti nahi k aap maan jaoo ....samjhay .... lagay rahoo .........

433

fact hai yae .....

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ohoo mere dost hum to Quran or Hadhith ki baat karte hain....aapko shaaid Quran or hadith ki baaton mien fitna ka ehsaas hota ho ga...par ye mien aapko bata doon abhi tak aapki baat ki taeed karne waala orr koi reply nahin aaya!

435

What was that "also" for? I believe every single word from Holy Quran and the Hadiths. If Miraj is said to have taken place, who am I or any Muslim for that matter to reject that event?

Finish up the topic of death/raised up alive of Jesus AS, and we shall talk about Miraj also :)

I still have not gotten a reply from you regarding the meaning of Rafaa in the prayer done in between sajood?

I still havent gotten a reply from you whether you believe heaven to be a physical or spiritual place?

I still am lookin for an answer from you regarding why Allah raised Him AS to 4th heaven? and do you disagree with the fact that Allah is everywhere and not just in 4th heaven?

A little reply regarding the miraaj shareef ( only related to Hazrat Jesus AS ) can be appreciated as well. ( We will surely talk about Miraaj shareef if you want , after the completion of this issue ). Did Prophet Muhammad PBUH meet Jesus AS in the event of miraaj shareef? If He SAW met Him AS, along with other prophets.. only two things are possible. Either Prophet Jesus AS was alive and so were all the other prophets who prophet Muhammad PBUH met..or.. that He AS was dead and so was all the other prophets HE SAW met?

PS: be very careful in answering the last question though. If you say He AS was alive , then it confirms my earlier posts when I said prophets are said to be alive. But when you reply as that all the other prohets Muhammad PBUH met, were dead, then you also have to admit Prophet Jesus AS was dead as well. We all very well know that dead do not accompany the alives.

Looking forward for your satisfactory and sensible answers.

Punjabi Words...!!!
436

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

there ur go Qadyanies.. you still have that attitude which iam witnessing from last 9/10 years

this is how it works

Qadyani start discussing and there are 3/4 guys there discussing and taking their turns to answer/comment on the posts.

These 3/4 qadyanies are normally inter-connected and they plan the game. now on some fourms, where they have qadyanies influence on the admin, they get them involved.

Now the game begins, If the mod of Islam section take part in the discussion then they try to play victum card and gets him out of the discussion.. there you one learned man is out, and the allegations are there, saying that he can be baised in his attitude...

Now, they target the posters, they answer as long as they can, but when things get straighter and start moving to its logical conclusion, one qadyani is re-place by other, ( just like changing the bowler).

Not to mention that these qadyanies try their best to pose as they are the only one who have the best moral values, and in doing so, they continue to blame the poster(s), and then ofcourse, no where in the world any qadayni can prove the prophet-hood of the Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadyani, and then the blow, get one or two nasty posts...

In due course, they use their connections with ADMIN, and then the complain in launched,

In mean time if Qadyani post an irrelevant reply, it is OK, and if someone else do that, then they never forget to mention that...

Now in this post.. when i asked them few questions and invited them to discuss the Knowledge and source of Knowledge of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadyani.. tevery qadyani seems to disappear.. and someone from street start with its abusive behaviour, strangely enough, none of the admin or qadyani ever bother about that, neutrel admin thinks that they are already a victum and qadyani admin consider it right of a qadyani to abuse anyone they like.

Now in some cases they may ban the street level guy, but in due course they also ban the few members from other side...

None of Qadyani or Admin can prove any word from my post that can be classified as an offence to them, yes stil the ADMIN like TLK walks in and suprises me with the questions...

now summarizing my questions/comment, which were pointed to Ahmadies/qadaynies

1) Essa (AS) never had a new shariyat, still the followers of the Jesus (AS) are called Christains, that is after the name of Christ. The follower of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadyani are named after their religous leader, then y they insist to be called a Muslim.

2) As per the teaching of Prophet Mohammad (SAAW) and Quran, anyone who claims himself a prophet is an imposter or Dajaal, may it be Muslima the Liar, Aswad or Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadyan.

3) if there is any mehdi is about to come, then, what about Riaz Ahmed Gohar Shahi, he declared himself as Mehdi, he never got a chance, otherwise he may have declared himself a prophet as well.. there is another guy from former Yugosalavia, named Jassim, he claimed to Mehdi as well... Now how will the follower of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadayni, will refute them, using the teaching of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadyani???

4) Two different ahadees were posted, one declining the possibility of any prophet after Prophet Mohammad (SAAW), second, warning muslims about the traps of dajaals ( imposters).

5) I did mention that in Islam there is no room for any sect may it be 72 or 73, the hadees stating about the sects is actually saying that anyone who leaves Quran and Sunna/Hadees will fall for the trap and form/join a sect and shall be feul of hell.

Now, i don't care if some body believes in and follows Mirza Ghulam ahmed Qadyani or others who claimed to be one after Prophet Mohammad (SAAW), as long as, they don't call them muslims.

Now there is great chance that some low level guys/members of qadyanies will start abusing me, and the admin may take actions against me, what ever the case may be, they will never be able to answer and/or comment on any of above (in sensible manner ofcourse).

437

Frustration I guess!

BTW this is a reflection of current Indian soaps in your reply.

so many times I have requested you stop using ord Qadiani...I m Pakistani man!

you ll get your reply once you start replying to things Mr Popat asked.

Guys vs Gurlz
438

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

I quit in this debate. Thats it for me. Doesnt matter how much i try to have a healthy discussion here, people like hanibal comes here only to post his own comments about jamaat e ahmadiyya, without actually answering us.. You people have no knowledge of your very own religion that you believe in.

You need some lessons in reading. Anyone here can come and abuse jamaat e ahmadiyya, and you are doing exactly the same. On one hand Mr Hanibal,you insist Eesa AS will come back, and will bring no new law. When Ahmadis say exactly the same ( prophecy was fulfilled on Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS ) , who brought no new law and His AS teachings are exactly of Islam and what prophet Muhammd PBUH taught, Ahmadis are labelled non-Muslims. You are here just to accuse jamaat e ahmadiyya. You have no manner watsoever to have a debate.

You were the one who accused me of 'running out of argument'. When answered , your reply was not given. It is now clear the way you kept adressing ahmadiyya jamaat as qadiyaanis ( when you know it is offensive to them ), you are here not to learn at all, but to label them non-muslims, and showing your senselss hate towards them.

Your questions were answered by me, but only if you spend time reading it. Did i not reply you when u asked what ahmadi jamaat think of all the other people who claimed to be imam Mehdi? Do you honestly come here to learn or to pass time?

I cannot believe you can stoop this low, after I appologized to you on Bigboi's behalf , for his offensive language towards you. You still come here and think we're inter-connected. :D we are not sir. Think about the same accusations u raised about us towards you, if I say you're inter-connected?

The time it took for you to write this dumb post, that time would have been spent in a more better way by answering my questions.

Mind you. Anyone who claims to be prophet after Muhammad PBUH better be Prophet Eisa AS , as per your aqaaid. You're calling Him AS a dajaal? and imposter? May Allah's curse be upon those who call the true prophets of Allah as imposters. ( prophet Eisa AS is dead. He AS is no more alive. Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed to be the one prophecised. He AS claimed to be Hazrat Eisa AS ( not the one who died 2000 years ago ), but exactly the way how John the Baptist ( Yahya AS) claimed to be Elijah AS.

You are not concerned about 72 or 73 sects in Islam? You've got to be kidding me buddy. This is a Hadith that the shariyah will be divided into 72 sects and 73rd will be the righteous one.
1) you are rejecting this hadith
2) as per you, these sects are referring to those who "leave Quran and sunnah" will fall for the traps. I ask you, do you then consider Shia to be non-muslims? What about sufis? What about Wahabis? etc? Is according to Shias , you are non-muslim? they are all well known sects within islam, each claiming to be the right one. They "left" Quran and sunnah according to you? If they have, say it over here that you do not believe them to be Muslims either. If you consider them, consider Ahmadis the 73rd then. Simple.
3) Mashallah, you are now interpreting Hadith to your own advantage. Where in that hadith is it saying it will be those who will leave Quran and hadith? If thats the case, Shias and others should be amongst those who left Quran and sunnah according to you? Why then consider them Muslims?
for your benefit , this is the hadith of 73 sects within Islam. Tell me how did u come up with ur interpretation of leaving Quran and sunnah? All the sects claim to be following sunnah and Quran.

[quote]
Abdullah bin Amar (RA) relates that the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) said "Surely things will happen to my people as happened earlier to Israelites, they will resemble each other like one shoe in a pair resembles the other to the extent that if anyone among the Israelites has openly committed adultery to his mother there will be some who will do this in my Ummah as well, verily the Israelites were divided into 72 sections but my people will be divided into 73 sections, all of them will be in the fire except one." The companions asked, 'Who are they O Messenger of Allah,' Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "They are those who will be like me and my companions."
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It is natural. When one who actually does run out of arguments shows up just for the heck of it , and start making assumptions and how the whole jamaat e ahmadiyya all works.

Stay away from the discussion, if you have nothing useful to contribute. Answer my questions in detail and in a sensible way or hide somewhere, like you always have.

You are claiming that you have never posted something that offended ahmadis? How do you know what makes us offended? You know very well the term Qadiyani or Marzai is discouraged and hence should not be used to adress us, yet you still uses these terms. Is this not enough ? You repeteadly called a religious figure of 200million Ahmadis Muslims around the world as dajaal and as imposter? This is not offensive?

439

Perhaps the last post by Hanibal sir was due to this book. He must have read this book and thought of taking this route.

Read the underlined statements. May I be allowed to laugh at this ?

440

Ghadaari ki saza maut hai. I dont know to believe you or Dr.Zakir Naik on this matter. Ghadaari ki saza maut is what i heard many islamic school of thoughts saying, including dr.zakir Naik. ( will post the video if i find it again on youtube, but trust me when i say, thats what he said ). Infact, the very reason ahmadis are considered waajibul qatl, is for this reason. They believe that we do ghadaari with deen. Hence, killing us is Islamic. If Ghadaari has nothing to do with Islam, why then are ahmadis declared waajibul qatl? Explain

As I asked you earlier. I have very little knowledge of the false prophets who came. And i asked you if you could enlighten me with that. On one post of yours, you claim khulfa e rashideen launched a campaign against them, and then on other post of yours.. you ask me why Prophet Muhammad PBUH didnt have a talk with them ? Are you sure you have knowledge on this subject? Was Prophet SAW alive when they claimed prophethood?

I wanna know if you believe the coming of Jesus AS will not effect khatam e naboowat and if Jesus AS will come, will He AS, be considered a Prophet? Will His mission be to draw people's attention towards Islam? Will He AS be divinly guided ? Will he AS bring any new shariyat? and if accepting Him AS will make you kaafir in the eyes of other Muslims who won't accept Him AS? It's a serious question. I am here to learn, and so i believe you are too. I will not quote you anymore, as my intention now is to learn your perspective on this issue. Thanks.

As for the hadith, I will Inshallah present that to you if i came across it. I unlike others do not simply copy/paste stuff here but talk with what ever I know. Im quite sure i have read that hadith. Will provide it if i came across it.

No more quoting you from my side. My intention now is to know your beliefs regarding Esa AS. Please answer the questions I asked in this post regarding Esa AS. Thanks.