What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

Society Religion & Philosophy
401

I personally think this is something you came up with which has absolutely nothing to do with the FUNDAMENTALS OF AHMADIYYAT...

agar kirdaar kashi karne ka bohat shock hai aapko to esa karrien aik orr thread kholl lien or wahan jo marzi karte rahhien..

kon bara kon chota waali behes mujhe to bilkul pointless lagg rahi unless is there anyone else who is finding it like a very strong point?

dekh lien warna Hanibal bhai barre ghusse waale bande hian...!!

402

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

The expression in arabic MUTE VA FEEKA comes from the root word VAFFA which carries the meaning of ‘Completing something or some task to such an extent that nothing else is left out’. In the same manner Vafaat means ‘Death’, as in Death the life term of a person is fully completed.

Following are some references from Standard Arabic dictionaries which tell us about the meaning of the word VAFFAT.

‘VAFFAT’ = Death, Decease (An advanced Learners Arabic-English Dictionary by H. Anthony Salmone pp1222)

‘VAFFAT’ = Death, Demise, Decease (Al Mawrid Arabic-English Dictionary pp 1240)

‘TUVAFA’* = To take the life of anyone (A Dictionary & Glossary of the Koran by J. Penrice pp 161)*

‘TUUFFA’ = To die, Expire, Pass away, Give up the ghost, Breath ones last, Part ones life (Al Mawrid Arabic-English Dictionary pp 391)

In English to Arabic dictionaries ie reverse the meaning of ‘vaffat’ is again confirmed;

*DEATH = ‘vaffat’ (Al Manar English-Arabic Dictionary pp 157)
DEATH = ‘vaffat’ (Al Asri English-Arabic Dictionary pp 193)
DEMISE = ‘vaffat’ (Al Mawrid English-Arabic Dictionary pp 259)
DEATH = ‘vaffat’ (Al Mawrid Eng Arabic Dictionary pp 251)
*

403

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

However apart from General Arabic works of Reference, this word has also been used in the sense which conveys the meaning of death or demise or completion of one's life term in the Qur'an it self. Where ever the word TUVAFA or MUTE VA FEEKA is used in Al-Quran where Allah or His Angle is one who is doing T*AVAFA* and human beings are one whose TAVAFA is being done it always means the separation of soul from the body. although, it may be partial and temporary (i.e. at the time of sleep) or it may be complete and permanent (i.e. at the time of death) as Allah says

It is Allah that takes the souls <yatavafa> (of men) at death: and those that die not (He takes) during their sleep: those on whom He has passed the decree of death He keeps back (from returning to life) but the rest He sends (to their bodies) for a term appointed. Verily in this are Signs for those who reflect. Sura Az-Zumar verse 42. (Translation by A. Yousaf Ali).

Here Allah clearly says that there are only two ways in which He does the *Tuvafa **of human being but regret for those who attributes a third type of **Tavafa *(i.e. bodily ascension) to Allah (In the case of Jesus / Essa only) without fear of Allah.

The following verses are very clear in ascertaining the meaning of Vaffa, Tuvafa, Mutavafa etc in the Qur'an itself.

Verses of Holy Quran where Allah (or His angle) does Tuvafa and human being is one whose Tuvafa is done means seperation of soul from body (i.e. death):

Our Lord! surely we have heard a preacher calling to the faith, saying: Believe in your Lord, so we did believe; Our Lord! forgive us therefore our faults, and cover our evil deeds and** MAKE US DIE with the righteous.** (3:193)

And you do not take revenge on us except because we have believed in the communications of our Lord when they came to us! Our Lord: Pour out upon us patience and CAUSE US TO DIE in submission. (7:126)

My Lord! Thou hast given me of the kingdom and taught me of the interpretation of sayings: Originator of the heavens and the earth! Thou art my guardian in this world and the hereafter;** MAKE ME DIE A MUSLIM ** and join me with the good. (12:101)

But how will it be when the angels **CAUSE THEM TO DIE **smiting their backs. (47:27)

And Allah has created you, then** He CAUSES YOU TO DIE ,** and of you is he who is brought back to the worst part of life, so that after having knowledge he does not know anything; surely Allah is Knowing, Powerful. (16:70)

O people! if you are in doubt about the raising, then surely We created you from dust, then from a small seed, then from a clot, then from a lump of flesh, complete in make and incomplete, that We may make clear to you; and We cause what We please to stay in the wombs till an appointed time, then We bring you forth as babies, then that you may attain your maturity; and of you is he who is CAUSED TO DIE , and of you is he who is brought back to the worst part of life.. (22:5)

Say: The angel of death who is given charge of you shall** CAUSE YOU TO DIE ,** then to your Lord you shall be brought back. (32:11)

404

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

Now let us again see the verse which discusses about Allah’s ‘Vaffat’ to Jesus (p).

Lo ! God said: `O Jesus! Verily I shall cause thee to die, and shall exalt thee unto me, and cleanse thee of those who are bent on denying the truth; and I shall place those who follow thee above those who are bent on denying the truth, unto the day of resurrection. In the end unto Me you all must return, and I shall judge between you with regard to alon which you were wont to differ. (3:55)

In above Allah clearly informs that He will complete Jesus’ life on earth, and this is confirmed again, namely that Jesus had to die a natural death, when we are reminded through Jesus himself stating on the Last Day:

I did not say to them aught save what Thou didst enjoin me with: That serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst CAUSE ME TO DIE , Thou wert the watcher over them, and Thou art witness of all things (5:117 )(Shakir)

In above verse Jesus’ statement that :

..when Thou didst cause me to die..

Is confirming what Allah had earlier said to him in 3:55:

..Verily I shall cause thee to die…

In other words Jesus was neither crucified nor taken up into heaven but Allah caused him to die a natural death, i.e. fully completed his life span. Then in the above mentioned verse Jesus is saying:

..and I was a witness of them AS LONG AS I WAS AMONG THEM.. ..

And further he says;

…but when Thou didst cause me to die, Thou wert the watcher over them.. .

Here Jesus clearly mentions two periods, one in which he dwelt among his people, and the other in which Allah caused him to die. There is no other period mentioned here which informs of a stage of being taken up and stationed in heaven temporarily.

405

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

hanibal,

I was just using what u use! Why r u so shocked? Didn't like to see the mirror? Shocked about your ugly behavior? I cannot deny the truth! It is abusive when you say why do they say "We are Muslims"

Why are you and your Gormint so abusive towards God and declare God's creation as non-muslims? Why are you so abusive towards God in becoming God? answer this questions! You are so senseless, still your biased friends and sadly Ahmadies take your side and even apologize for my behavior which was wrong allegedly. They must be wearing very very dark glasses, this is why they ignore your dirty crap and call me on me for being aggressive! If we could have an unbiased discussion with you, fine, I'm the last to become agressive, but you and your false accusations are not easy to take for a emotional guy like, especially when you and your fellows discuss the crap again and again.

All they say go and read his books! Have you read all his 80 books? It's too much and you have no time, you rather read summarized crap leaving out the important details. I know, I know. I'm sorry for my abusive language, but you know why!

406

mere dost agar mien Hanbal ko kisi baat se rokoon jo mujhe kharaab lagge or agar aap bhi wohi baat karo jo Hanibal karta hai or usspe kuch na kahoon to ye khullam khulla munaafqat ka case banta hai...

agar aapka moto hai Love for All Hatred for None to usspe aap qaaim rahhien... wese to mujhe bhi aapki pichli post pe logon se maafi maangni chahyye thi par shaaid wo meri kamzori thi..

aap koshish karrien ke topic pe dehaan dien or kuch apna valuable knowledge ham na cheezon se shair karrien... Jazakallah

No hard feelings OK!

407

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

^^ I can't talk to somebody as low as you!!!

Timepass April 2013
408

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

[QUOTE]
Lo ! God said: `O Jesus! Verily I shall cause thee to die, and shall exalt thee unto me, and cleanse thee of those who are bent on denying the truth; and I shall place those who follow thee above those who are bent on denying the truth, unto the day of resurrection. In the end unto Me you all must return, and I shall judge between you with regard to alon which you were wont to differ. (3:55)

[/QUOTE]

can you tell me who translated the above verse
i found these translations.

003.055
YUSUFALI: Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
PICKTHAL: (And remember) when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then unto Me ye will (all) return, and I shall judge between you as to that wherein ye used to differ.
SHAKIR: And when Allah said: O Isa, I am going to terminate the period of your stay (on earth) and cause you to ascend unto Me and purify you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve to the day of resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, so l will decide between you concerning that in which you differed.

Timepass April 2013
409

*true..... :)
*
off the topic again... sorry !

Kirdaar kashi kernay ki baat nahi hai.... if u guys mind i will not post here anymore. Am sure every one who is spending time on Religion section of this site or anysite either wants to learn or spread his/her religion.

If you are trying to spread ur religion its a good thing... But be sure, questions will be asked becoz its not easy to convince someone. I have to answer and u have to answer... we all will have to answer the basis on which we followed our religion or sect, or the basis on which we rejected other beliefs.

I know i ask alot of questions.... bring up little points; but thats not only to ahmedis ... To sunnis, shias everyone will have some questions for me and when i dont get a convincing answer i find reasons to reject such faith.

So am off now u guys tc.

410

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

worth reading
Problem for Qadianis – Is Quran lying or Ghulam
by Ebrahim Saifuddin
1. Qadianis believe that Jesus (pbuh) did not die on the cross and was unconscious when he was brought down from it. They say he was nursed back to health and then traveled to Kashmir,lived there till the age of 120and then died there.
2. According to Ghulam Ahmad, Paul was the one who introduced the concept of Trinity and Divinity in “Christianity” after the death of Jesus (pbuh). (Qadianis please ask for the quotes and I will give them to you)
3. Paul died somewhere around 64-67 AD. The dates vary from source to source but they lie within this range i.e. they do not exceed 67 AD. Nevertheless this is about a maximum of 35-40 years (lets be generous) after the incident of “crucifixion”.
The problem for Qadianis

If Paul died, lets say, 40 years after the incident of crucifixion, then Jesus (pbuh), according to Ghulam Ahmad’s given information, had to be alive at that point in time. Therefore:
How could Paul introduce “trinity” and “divinity” AFTER the death of Jesus? Jesus was NOT above 80 (or 90 depending on when Paul started preaching) years old when the incident of crucifixion took place.Therefore either Ghulam Ahmad is lying that Paul introduced these claims OR he is lying that Jesus lived till 120 years.Whichever way, it proves Ghulam Ahmad knew nothing and just made up stories.
Pick up a qadiani translation of the Quran and read Surah Maida (5), Verse 117-118. I will use the translation that is available from their official website:
“And when Allah will say, ‘O Jesus, son of Mary, didst thou say to men, ‘Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?’ he will answer, ‘Holy art THOU, I could never say that which I had no right. If I had said it, Thou wouldst have surely known it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy mind. It is Thou alone Who art the Knower of all hidden things;
‘I said nothing to them except that which Thou didst command me - Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I remained among them, but since Thou didst cause me to die, Thou, hast been the Watcher over them, and Thou art Witness over all things;

Note: Because the qadianis add “bismillah” as verse no. 1 in the Quran therefore it is 5:117-118, otherwise it would be 5:116-117
This verse, as confirmed by Ghulam Ahmad, states that thepeople went astray AFTER the death of Jesus.
Therefore:
a) If Jesus was alive till 120 AD, and the corruption was already brought in by Paul before 67 AD (max), thenis Ghulam Ahmad saying that the Quran lies when it refers to corruption being spread AFTER the death of Jesus?
b) On the other hand, as Ghulam Ahmad states that Jesus died in 120 AD and on the other hand also states that the Quran is correct as well in stating that it was after the death of Jesus that the corruption spread, thereforeshould we then believe that Ghulam Ahmad was LYING when he said Paul brought in the corruption???
Can anyone not see? Ghulam Ahmad is fighting a losing battle.His claims are CONTRADICTORY.

If a person chooses to follow the claim that Jesus died in 120 AD and Paul introduced “trinity” and “divinity” THEN the person has to believe that the Quran is LYING.
NEVER WOULD A MUSLIM EVER BELIEVE THAT
If a person chooses to follow the claim that Jesus died in 120 AD and the Quran is also correct to imply that corruption was brought in after the death of Jesus, THEN the person HAS to believe that Ghulam Ahmad was a liar.

411

I have explained the meaning of Mutawaffika....in above posts.

The ayat in question reads as follows:

Izz qaalallah o ya Esa inni Mutawaffi ka wa raafioka ilayya wa mutahiruka minallazeena kafaroo wajaae lullazeena kafaroo ilaa yaume qayaama.....

You will find many scholars translating the whole sentence differently. However in this case the only word in dispute would be Mutawaffika.

This is the official translation made by Jamaat Ahmadiyya:

Remember the time when Allah said O Jesus I will cause thee to die a natural death and will raise thee to Myself, and clear thee of the charges of those who disbelieve until day of Ressuruction....

412

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

The following verse of the Holy Quran supports the Islamic doctrine:

And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him [Jesus] before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them;-
(The Holy Quran; An-Nisa 4:159)
Every Christian and Jew will come to accept Islamic view of Jesus(pbuh) when Jesus(pbuh), himself, descends from the heavens, brings peace, and rules the world. They all will believe this before "his [Jesus'] death". This verse is very clear in supporting the idea that Jesus(pbuh) has not yet died, since not all people of the book believe in his true mission and message.

413

OK Aqeel bhai mien bhi to wohi keh raha hoon na...dunia mien itni tensions ko chorr ko aap Mirza sb (A.S) ka ka teacher ko hai pe jurre hue hian...

I mean thora top level pe aayien abb mujhe apna bachpan ke teachers ke naam yaad nahin orr ab kal ko aap unke baare mien mujhse daryaaft karrien gai to mien sochoon ga yaar kidher phans gaya...honestly...lets keep the talk to a broader level shall we?

Timepass April 2013
414

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

**
[QUOTE]
**This is the official translation made by Jamaat Ahmadiyya:

*Remember the time when Allah said O Jesus I will cause thee to die a natural death and will raise thee to Myself, and clear thee of the charges of those who disbelieve until day of Ressuruction....
[/QUOTE]
*

there you go you have your own version of Quran translations. how can anyone tell you whats right??? who translated it by the way? mirza sahib???????

415

First of all edit your post and replace Qadiani with Ahmadi...and I will answer every thing....I am sure you would like me to start naming you which you are not.

I guess I did mentioned this in one of my previous message that I take it as an offensive word...I am not Qadiani....its a city in India...I am Pakistani man!!

416

O ALLAH I SEEK REFUGE WITH YOU FROM SHAITAN MARDOOD

MirzaGhulam Qadiani claimed that the following verse revealed in the Holy Quran to prophet Muhammad(SAW) were revealed and intended for him and not the prophet Muhammad(SAW)! We have followed each verse with a reference to Qadiani (Ahmadiyya) book where the claim is made:

  • The Holy Quran, Aal-Imran 3:31.
    Say: "If ye do love Allah, Follow me: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins: For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
    (Claim made in Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, P. 82)

  • The Holy Quran, Al-A'raf 7:158.
    *Say: "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Unlettered Prophet, who believeth in Allah and His words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided." *
    (Claim in *Tadkirah, *P. 352, 4th Edition)

  • The Holy Quran, Al-Anfal 8:17.
    *It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah: when thou threwest (a handful of dust), it was not thy act, but Allah's: in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself: for Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things). *
    (Claim in Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, P. 70)

  • The Holy Quran, Isra 17.1.
    Glory to (Allah) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless,- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things).
    (Claim in Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, P. 78)

  • The Holy Quran, Al-Kahf l8:110.
    *Say: "I am but a man like yourselves, (but) the inspiration has come to me, that your Allah is one Allah: whoever expects to meet his Lord, let him work righteousness, and, in the worship of his Lord, admit no one as partner. *
    (Claim in Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, P. 81)

  • The Holy Quran, Al-Kahf 18:27.
    And recite (and teach) what has been revealed to thee of the Book of thy Lord: none can change His Words, and none wilt thou find as a refuge other than Him.
    (Claim in Haqiqat-u1-Wahi, P. 74)

  • The Holy Quran, Al-Anbiya 21:107.
    *We sent thee not, but as a Mercy for all creatures. *
    (Claim in Arbaeen, No. 3, P. 23)

  • The Holy Quran, Al-Ahzab 33:46.
    And as one who invites to Allah's (grace) by His leave, and as a lamp spreading light.
    (Claim in Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, P. 75)

  • The Holy Quran, Ya-Sin 36:1-3.
    Ya Sin.
    By the Qur'an, full of Wisdom,-
    *Thou art indeed one of the messengers, *
    (Claim in Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, P. 107; Tadkirah, P. 479)

417

bhai jaan Bhai jaan....i dont see any difference in the meaning of the translations you provided and the one I provided...

To double check this show all four translations to an English man he will back up my statement.

You havent mentioned anything about translation of word Mutawaffika?

418

abb apke paas koi jawaab nahin hai to inn harqaton pe utter aaye ho...this is not a reply to allegations thread...the topic in hand is Death of Esa (A.S) not what you just quoted from Anti Ahamdiyya website.

BTW I would love to answer your allegation. Please open up a new thread and cross reference PDF pages of the book with allegations made so I and REST can read it clearly.

419

by this statement your proved how low you yourself are! You cannot discuss with anyone. All I see is repeated false accusations!

jaa, mera joota ka jaa kar!

420

[quote]
English man
[/quote]
............(o phulllleez)
Quran is not in english. and why wud a english person(muslim) not be able to differentiate between two translations. considering he is aware of the difference of opinions also.