What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

Almighty Allah asserted: And remember when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you say unto men: 'Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?'" He will say: "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right to say. Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner self though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You, only You, are the All Knower of all that is hidden and unseen. Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allah) did command me to say: 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord', And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a Witness to all things. (This is a great admonition and warning to the Christians of the whole world). If you punish them, they are Your slaves, and if You forgive them, Verily You, only You are the All Mighty, the All Wise."

the above verse was quoted by mirza ghulam's successor in video. between Isa' ascention to heaven till his return to earth how many christians have called him son of god? cud this ayat be addressed to those ppl????????? and in the ayat below Allah cud be addressing ppl who will then believe in Isa when he comes back and tells the MISGUIDED ones the truth!!! and every one is Muslim then...

Allah will say: "This is a Day on which the truthful will profit from their truth: theirs are Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise) - they shall abide therein forever. Allah is pleased with them and they with Him. That is the great success (Paradise). To Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all that is therein, and He is Able to do all things." (Ch 5:116-120 Quran)

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

*And there is none of the people of the Scripture (Jews & Christians), but must believe in him (Jesus, son of Mary, as only a Messenger of Allah, and a human being0, before his (Jesus or a Jew's or a Christian's ) death (at the time of the appearance of the angel of death). And on the Day of Resurrection, he (Jesus) will be a witness against them. ( Ch 4:157-159 Quran)
*

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

Evidence that revlelation has continued after the Holy Prophet (saw).

". At that point, Allah will reveal to Isa (as): 'I have brought forth some of My servants whom no-one will be able to fight. Take my servants safely to Al-Tur.'

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

so now u believe that Allah will eveal to ISA?????? first of all its revelation to Hazrat Isa not mirza ghulam second if you are giving this as evidence** then u must believe that its also the evidence for Prophat Isa's coming. **

my friend… i just never heard anyone use a.s for caliphs. I might be wrong here and unlike u i will answer the question or admit am wrong when i am wrong. So dont worry it was something new for me, which did surprise me. I will do my research and will admit am wrong if i didnt find anything to back myself up :).

Okay so …
“ASAlaihi Salaam - peace be upon him.
Alaiha Salaam - peace be upon her.
Alaihum Salaam - peace be upon them.
This should always be said whenever mentioning any of the Prophets from Adam through to Jesus, or any of the women regarded as being the most notable women created (namely Eve, wife of Adam - Hajar, wife of Abraham - Asiya, one of Pharaoh’s wives who joined Moses on his exodus - Mary, mother of Jesus - Khadija, Muhammad’s first wife - and Fatima, Muhammad’s youngest daughter).”

http://www.bahagia.btinternet.co.uk/glossary.htm**
sunni

" A.S.** refers to 'Alayhis-salaam, (God’s) peace be with him. It is said after the names of all previous prophets, their mothers (e.g. Bibi Maryam [Mary] A.S.), the twelve divine Imams from the household of Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.) and Bib i Fatima (A.S.). It will change to 'Alayhas-salaam (peace be with her) if it follows a lady’s name. After any two names we say 'Alayhimas-salaam and after more than two names or when referring a group of people we say 'Alayhimus-salaam. Thus, we sa y Imams Hasan and Husayn (A.S.='alayhimas-salaam) and the Ahul-Bayt (A.S.'alayhimus-salaam). "

http://www.al-islam.org/about/resources/glossary.html
shia
well glossary is the best i cud do, i didnt find the related topics anywhere else. I dont have a hadith or a verse from Quran so if u can bring me something better than just glossary from Islamic sites then i wont have a choice but to agree with you. Also if u cud find a.s used for any of the fist three caliphs anywhere by any scholar that wud be a bit convincing too.

I have tried to look for something in ahmediya site but cudnt find glossary there, However i didnt see a.s used for any of the caliphs in ur site.

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

This whole issue of when to use AS/RA/PBUH is a totally different debate, which should not be discussed here. You cannot take this issue against the ahmadiyya jamaat. This issue is not so important that it should be discussed, and hence the reason why you failed to come up with something to convince me. Anyhow, I will start using RA with khulfa e rashideen (as i always have), from now on. If that will make you feel better.

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

As far as the topic of death of Jesus AS is concerned, I’d like you all to see this video clip of Dr.Zakir Naik, the so called Islamic scholar.

These people dont have a brain. One of them saying He AS will NOT be a prophet when he comes back and He AS is the ONLY messenger of Allah being raised up alive. Others amongst you believe He AS is not the only one, but Idris AS was one of them too. Others also believe He AS when comes back will have his prophethood with him.

That video clip has nothing to do with jamaat e ahmadiyya. It is your very own beliefs, which are so messed up that one from the same jamaat saying somethng while the other saying completely the opposite.

I am not doubting about the hadees, I know that you are right and those two ahadees are true and sahee. I am just saying that adding names to that (which is nothing more than our interpretation of that hadees) is going to cause more distress than resloving any issues.

Allah raised Him up unto Himself. The word here used is 'rafa' which u literally take it as 'raised up to heavens". One need to keep in mind that heaven is not a physical thing. It is where people go after their death. I said that earlier too. By climbing the highest mountain, one doesnt come closer to God.

If i may ask , do you or any school of thought you are familiar with pray in between sajoods? Because we as Ahmadis say this prayer which is " allahumagh firni warhamni wa'aadni warafaani wajburni warhamni ". We never take the meaning of warafaani as to take us up to heaven but to raise our spiritual status.

They killed Him not nor crucify him, the other option is that He AS died a natural death.

Another point I want to raise is that Allah is everywhere. If He AS was raised to heaven, that means Allah is only in heavens? How can that be when Allah Himself says that he is everywhere? He is despite being close very far, and despite being far , very close.

It is against the sunnah of Allah to take someone up to skies bodily. He has never done that before and he never will do that. People are born as a child and then raised up to adulthood. We will never see a change to this sunnah of Allah, even in the prophets case. To raise oneself in the spiritual sense is very much possible.

Someone above mentioned this verse :

[quote]

"And for their saying, We did slay the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah; whereas they slew him not, nor did they bring about his death upon the cross, but he was made to appear to them like one crucified; and those who differ therein are certainly in a state of doubt about it; they have no certain knowledge thereof, but pursue only a conjecture; and they did not arrive at a certainty concerning it. On the contrary, Allah exalted him to himself. And Allah is Mighty, Wise."

[/quote]

The argument of the Jews was that because Hadhrat Jesusas died on the cross, considered an accursed death according to the law of the Torah, Hadhrat Jesusas could not be a true prophet. The Quran rejects the slaying of Hadhrat Jesusas in any form, including killing by nailing to the cross. Nothing in the verse suggests Hadhrat Jesusas was NOT nailed to the cross: the verse only denies DEATH by nailing to the cross.... and ofcourse Allah exalted Him to himself refers only the spiritual elevation, and not bodily. As I said earlier, heaven is not a physical place but spiritual.

according to the Quran, humans live and die in the physical universe. Prophets are human beings. Prophets, like all humans, are subject to hunger, pain, death, etc. The Quran is clear that Hadhrat Jesusas was a human being like the Holy Prophet Muhammadsaw. To say that Hadhrat Jesusas is alive today, 2000 years after he was born, is to make him more than a human. The Laws of God do not change. In fact, the Quran makes a general statement: "But you will never find any change in the way of Allah, nor will you find any alteration in the way of Allah." (35:44)

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

Also in the event of Meraaj shareef. Prophet Muhammad PBUH met Jesus AS in 4th heaven along with other prophets who were dead. Now only two things are possible. Either Jesus AS was alive bodily and so were other prophets He SAW met, or that Jesus AS was dead like other prophets He SAW met. We all very well know that dead people do not accompany the alives.

indeed I was going to quote the same Hadith...

I guess all is onto word Rafaa and how it is translated. It is very clear from the verse above how Allah works.....

P.S - I didnt get time to reply anything today but will do tomorrow Inshallah.

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

Its a Quranic verse, and not a hadith.

Yes, indeed. I guess it all about the word rafaa and how one takes it to be.

No dude i wasnt trying to convince u, some used a.s for a caliph and u said we can use it ... i thought u were gona get me something anyway off the topic thing so off and yea ...
You may use s.a.w, b.b.u.h, a.s, r.a or anything u want doesnt concern me. what concerns is my unanswered questions abt status of Gul Ali Shah or name of a scholar who taught a prophet.

Re: What are the fundamental beliefs of Ahmadis?

Question was answered very thoroughly. In fact , i was waiting for you to answer me what status would you have given to teachers of Moses and Abraham AS if u knew their names?.. Or are you saying they learnt reading and writing directly from Allah?

I'm not sure if Moses and Abraham AS being able to read and write is considered to be a miracle from God. Perhaps you can enlighten me on that. Also, Prophet Muhammad PBUH spent his early childhood with Haleema RA. Since Muhammad PBUH was UMI , but we know that kids learn whatever is taught to them in their childhood. What rank do you give to Haleema RA? How much do we really know about her?

Please check your translation. Where does it say "the resemblance of Isa was put over another man"? The correct translation (from Yusu Ali) is " ...but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts... "

This is a valid point that Destino has raised. According to the Hadith you have quoted, Hazrat Isa (AS) will receive a revelation after his second coming. Would that not go against your belief that all revelation from Allah has stopped after Prophet Muhammad (SAW)?

Now I am more confused!!!

Both the Ahadees are Sahee ( A Fact)

Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadyani has declared himself as the prophet of Allah (A Fact)

Many People believes in His prophet-hood ( A Fact)

So the interpretation is not my personal opinion.. it is just 2+2 = 4.. no matter who adds them, the answer will be four!!!

Are u suggesting that i should call 2+2 = 3 or 7 ( which does not make any sense on the base table of 10)

hahaha...i cant stop my self smiling on this...

ye aap dono kia khichri pakaane lagge hue ho?

Who ever taught Prophet Musa a.s and Ibrahim a.s in my opinion has higher rank then the Prophet (Musa a.s or Ibrahim a.s). Do me a favor and come up with a name. Also open the books and find me a rawayat where Haleema r.a TAUGHT Prophet s.a.w anything. Just dont go with assumptions here...... just coz he spent time with Haleema r.a doesnt make Haleema r.a her teacher.

Again Prophets r sent to teach.... Tell us ALLAH'S message, not learn from us :)

Nor you can stop complaining!!!

now i don't know at which stage you will again start whining the topic is de-railed...