And janaan, why did Allah make Ibrahim an Imam?
I dont know which Ibrahim you are talking about, and i am not sure why he was made an imam. maybe, you might want to tell me the reason if you know about it. enlighten me please.
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Imam (as) just told people what he heard from his grandfather. It is recorded by esteamed Islamic scholers that Prophet (s) was told by Jibrael that this grandson of his will be killed by his ummah.
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Zero1,
so it was all God's plan. why do you hate Yazeed for it then? he was merely carrying out God's plan.
I dont know which Ibrahim you are talking about, and i am not sure why he was made an imam. maybe, you might want to tell me the reason if you know about it. enlighten me please.
Prophet Ibrahim was made an Imam by God in the Quran. So that means that Imamate is greater than general prophethood.
Prophet Ibrahim was made an Imam by God in the Quran. So that means that Imamate is greater than general prophethood.
and...?
please continue and msake your point clearer.
and...?
please continue and msake your point clearer.
If you don't get it, then there's no hope for you.
Zero1, so it was all God's plan. why do you hate Yazeed for it then? he was merely carrying out God's plan.
Allah (swt) is Al-Khabeer which means He knows the innermost of everything; nothing takes place in His domain without His knowledge; no atom moves nor stands still, nor a soul is upset or eased, except that He knows about it. He is the One from Whose knowledge nothing in the earth or in the heavens is hidden; nothing moves in the heavens or in the earth except that He knows about its final resting point or destination.
Allah (swt) has created us with free will. He has given us Aql to distinguish between good and evil. On the day of Judgment we will be rewarded or punished because of our action and choices we made.
Let’s say that every choice we make whether good or evil happens according to Allah's plan. Then why a person should be punished in Aakhira. Does it make sense that the evil things we do in this life were with the will of Allah and for that we will be sent to hell?
No! Allah (swt) the Most Exalted, the Most High is Al Adl.
Adl means moderation; al-`adl is above oppressing or being inequitable to anyone in His decrees and actions. Rather, He grants everyone what is due to him; He puts everything in its right place; nothing ensues from Him except justice.
Allah (swt) has said, "Surely Allah enjoins the doing of justice and of good deeds (to others) and the giving to the kindred, and He forbids indecency, evil, and rebellion; He admonishes you so that you may be mindful" (Qur’an, 16:90).
Re: What actually happened at Karbala
A word of advice to shia brothers, do not quote things from Sunni books for two following reasons:
You do not have the ilm of its context and place. (ie. laylatul Qadr occured on two seperate occasions, once on a wet and muddy night, the other signs indicate it to be on a clear and calm night. Althought it may seem contradictory you won't know anything until you have the contextual knowledge of the two ahadtih)
You can't claim to copy paste and believe in one thing from Sunni books, yet neglect all of Aisha r.a. Ahadith and other ahadith from Bukhari and Muslim. If you cant believe in one, dont believe in all, why would you pick and choose ahadith from sunni books? That weakens any claims you put forth.
You're all my brothers on the basis of laillaha illallah. I have many shia friends and I tell them the same thing. Do not debunk sunni texts without knowledge, and they completely agree.
Love of the Ahlul Bayt (as) is a demand by Allah (swt) in Quran (42:23) hence its a duty to me. When Allah (swt) ordered Rasool Allah (saww) to bring his "sons" to the ground of Mubahila (3:61), it was Imam Hassan and Imam Hussain who came along Rasool Allah (saww).
I agree that some people go to extreme and do acts such as shedding blood etc. These people could use their blood for more useful purpose, e.g. donate blood or feed the poor etc.
Very well put Ramesha. You have put the debate in perspective. The Ummah can unite on this point of the love for Ahl-e-Bayt.
How each individual or group expresses their love and devotion is between them and God.
Cheers
I dont know which Ibrahim you are talking about, and i am not sure why he was made an imam. maybe, you might want to tell me the reason if you know about it. enlighten me please.
u shud try to get enlightened urself. Allah help you iA
STP,
The present day 12ers have carefully edited out these beliefs to make their fiqah more in line with mainstream islam thats why techincally they cannot be called non-muslims.However there are certain aspects of their beliefs that can still be traced to these earlier sects.
What mainstream Islam r u talking about here?
If you don't get it, then there's no hope for you.
no seriously. i am really trying to understand your point. i am not even sure whether you are arguing for or against me. I saw your post and i dont think i mentioned Ibrahim before that post. so it was like completely out of nowhere. so please, can you explain it a little further. I am a little thickhead.
no seriously. i am really trying to understand your point. i am not even sure whether you are arguing for or against me. I saw your post and i dont think i mentioned Ibrahim before that post. so it was like completely out of nowhere. so please, can you explain it a little further. I am a little thickhead.
Per the Quran, it's possible for an Imam to have a direct link with God. There's no reason why Imam Hussain needed to be a Prophet for a "direct link".
Re: What actually happened at Karbala
here is the thing guy. if he was having any direct link with god, that means he was able to get some new guidance from God. are you trying to suggest that Quran is not the complete code, and there was still some guidance left to be delivered? are you trying to say there was some updating still needed? be careful what you say. your words could lead to disastrous interpretations.
ok i will accept your argument that Imams have a direct link with God. but God NEVER called Imam Hussain an IMAM? we call him that, out of respect or whatever. if we started calling you an Imam today, does that mean you will have a direct link with God too?
are you trying to suggest that Quran is not the complete code, and there was still some guidance left to be delivered?
Well, here's the other thing. I don't believe the Quran was a divinely written book; the Prophet most likely wrote it with some help. I see it that way.
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ok i will accept your argument that Imams have a direct link with God. but God NEVER called Imam Hussain an IMAM?
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How do we know that? I'm sure a Shia with more knowledge than me can answer that and they will bring their arguments through Hadiths, etc, of which I doubt very much.
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we call him that, out of respect or whatever. if we started calling you an Imam today, does that mean you will have a direct link with God too?
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I don't think it's respect only; Muslims call him an Imam because the Prophet said so or of some historical significance. There has to be a reason why Muslims call Ali, Hasan and Husayn "Imams" and don't call Abu Bakr, Umar, Muawiya as "Imams".
But the jist of my argument was that an Imam per the Quran can have a direct link with God and that Imamate in that respect is higher than general Prophethood.
Now if the argument is about whether Husayn bin Ali was an Imam in the Quranic sense, then I don't have any knowledge to argue that point.
A real Shia, maybe zero1 can answer than.
Re: What actually happened at Karbala
ok. i thought you were going the usual way. like all these other people here. i get your point. i did not know about the point that you raised. thanks for the info.
Moonshiner, Jaanaan Please check th following links:
Imamat vs. Prophethood:
Finality of the Prophethood](http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter6b/10.html)
it's all in the past and gone, Allah will decide who's who.. why do we cry over it so much? Allah will not ask us did you cry over all this or not.. i mean those people can beat themselves all they want, Imam Hussein is not coming back.
Okay so there is a mis-conception or mis-undertsanding, We dont mourn on Imam Hussain so he will come back. Imam Mehdi a.s is the one who will come back !
Spirtually Imam Hussain's a.s ziker is alive, karbala is alive !we mourn so muslims wont forget karbala like they forgot ghadeer....... and those who are against it will be the logic when i say " Hussain a.s is alive because karbala is alive". People want us to stop mourning on Imam Hussain coz they know as long as Karbala is alive the mission of yazeed isnt accomplished.
Zero1, so it was all God's plan. why do you hate Yazeed for it then? he was merely carrying out God's plan.
So what is not God's Plan.... Are u saying Ferro and namrood were rite as well to call themselve God? or are you saying they called them selves God and it happened against God plans ...
As a muslim not shia or sunni ! u shld know Everything that has happened, is happening or will happen is writtten in Loh-e-Mehfooz.
Now When ferro called himself God ... shld we say that he was just doing what was in loh-e-mehfooz and he didnt do anything wrong ????? shld we say we he isnt gonna get punished bcoz he was merely carrying out God's plan
No we cant say that we only do whats written in loh-e-mehfooz so when we do a gunnah its okay. Instead the logic shld be that ALLAH knows what we will do even though we have a free will so ... what we do is written in loh-e-mehfooz. AllAh knew that yazeed will do this zulm and as a muslim we shldnt support yazeed unless we r yazeedi !
Okay so there is a mis-conception or mis-undertsanding, We dont mourn on Imam Hussain so he will come back. Imam Mehdi a.s is the one who will come back !
Spirtually Imam Hussain's a.s ziker is alive, karbala is alive !we mourn so muslims wont forget karbala like they forgot ghadeer....... and those who are against it will be the logic when i say " Hussain a.s is alive because karbala is alive". People want us to stop mourning on Imam Hussain coz they know as long as Karbala is alive the mission of yazeed isnt accomplished.
What a beautiful name you have my brother, Subhan Allah.
Just calm down/chill out...relax...it's extremely highly unlikely that someone would alter ones' opinions about anything through internet discussions atleast, like these...what you have been trying to clarify about Momineen, although there is no aqli aur Quranic daleel against it, it is still a veryyyy long race to be run.
Life is very temporary and short....no need to justify one's belief...Hidayat comes from Allah to a clean and pure heart, which does not incline towards doing evils....doesnt matter who to and how one tries to put everything in the picture and who to...
We all are Muslims and Kalma Gu.
Baqi yeh kay qabar mein tu khud hi apnay aamal, niyyat aur iman ka hisab daina hay...doesnt matter who says what about whom, when,how and why
Mein Qurban Meray Rasool Nabi e Akhir Muhammad SAW Par
A word of advice to shia brothers, do not quote things from Sunni books for two following reasons:
You do not have the ilm of its context and place. (ie. laylatul Qadr occured on two seperate occasions, once on a wet and muddy night, the other signs indicate it to be on a clear and calm night. Althought it may seem contradictory you won't know anything until you have the contextual knowledge of the two ahadtih)
You can't claim to copy paste and believe in one thing from Sunni books, yet neglect all of Aisha r.a. Ahadith and other ahadith from Bukhari and Muslim. If you cant believe in one, dont believe in all, why would you pick and choose ahadith from sunni books? That weakens any claims you put forth.
You're all my brothers on the basis of laillaha illallah. I have many shia friends and I tell them the same thing. Do not debunk sunni texts without knowledge, and they completely agree.
Par Khuda kay liyay meray Rasool ki tazeem mein kami mat karo !!
There are many AHADITHS in many collections, including Sahih Bokhari, kay parh ker aankhain sharam say jhuk jati hain.
If I wished to, I could have pasted not a few, but uncountable of such words, that are so disrespectful towards The Last Prophet PBUH...par likhtay huay ya copy kertay hauy haath kanptay hain....Astagh Firulla Ha Rabbi Wa Atubu Elai
Even the followers of the previous Holy Books respect the Prophets they follow so much, that animals like donkeys, if related to as a Prophet's personal belongings/cattle/sawari, even that is highly respected by them....if someone would suggest that they found a foot/khur of such and such animal, khuda ki qasam, woh log literally poojtay hain us pair ko...aur aik hamara haal daikho...jo Nabi tamam Nabion say barh kar hay, Rahmat ul Lil Aalameen hay...aisa paak hay jaisey paak honay ka haq hay...us ki hi tazeem na kar paain tu peechay kya reh jaat hay??
Meray Muhammad PBUH ki tauheen na karo please
Alla Huma Sallay Ala Muhammad Wa Aale Muhammad