What actually happened at Karbala

Society Religion & Philosophy
81

Thanks for showing your respect to shia-ism and calling us brothers but "laillaha illallah" is part of jewish and Christian beleive too. I consider sunni muslims brother on base of "Mohammed ul Rasool Allah" s.a.w. As Prophet is father of ummat and we are ummat of same Prophet (same father).

Anyway the reason i didnt read the whole thread but if u point a finger on a christian u shld get the context from bible coz this is what christians beleive in, and if u wana proof a jew wrong bring them something from Torah. A muslim shld be provided text from Quran or hadith.

All muslims believe in Quran however all fiqhs dont agree on same book of hadith. So i guess smartest thing would be to bring your logic from Quran and after quran a book of hadith that certian muslim brother would trust is rite.

I hope you get the point..... Its not important if i believe it in or not whats important is that the other person believes on the provided source and considers it authenic

Wasalam
Aqeel

82

Yaar, mainey aesi kon si baat keh di ?
Na mainey kisi per khuch impose kerni ki koshish ki hai .... the purpose of tht post was to let people know we dont mourn for Imam Hussain so he could come back !

Anyway thanks for the compliment abt my name, whats urz ?

Seriously is this normal?
83

Re: What actually happened at Karbala

I believe the message of Karbala was simply that of Haq vs Batil, Imam Hussain wanted Islam to stay in its original form as taught by the Holy Prophet:saw2: as Yazid was trying to change and challenge the fundamentals of Islam. Imam sacrificed his companions & family members so that Muslims should remember to follow & practice Islam as the Holy Prophet :saw2: wished, in its original form. Its quite simple really, rest is semantics, for the sake of silly arguments.

84

Just curious. The bolded part - why go then? What made you get up and go and attend majlis?

85

What ‘high emotions’ are you talking about? :confused:

86

I didn't mean to blame the whole poor ummah, what I tried to convey was that the zulm/jaffa was done by people who claim to be muslims. Thus it's more painful. That's all. No doubt about Allah's justice.

87

:k:

88

On the basis of La illaha ilallah..the reason being, because I have some "shia" friends who I still havent' understood correctly yet...who claim that The Prophethood given to Muhammad s.a.w was a mistake, it was supposed to go to Ali r.a., because they looked alike, Jibrael a.s. made a mistake.

This was shocking to me, and I cut off ties with that brother..may Allah guide him.

Anyways, regarding the books, the main point was that things should not be taken out of context...Ramsha referenced Ayahs which had nothing to do with the point she was making...the Ayahs spoke of otherwise, she was putting in another context.

Same with the Sunni books, appear as they may contradictory, you cannot take literal meaning of it, especially in the english translation as it does not do justice to the arabic version of it.

Thats the point I was trying to make. Shias should take these to Fuqahaas of Sunni texts, and then ask them, then they will clarify alot for our shia brothers. However, posting out of context and copying it from websites online is not the answer.

Wsalam,

Cres

89

Re: What actually happened at Karbala

crescent i opened a thread today wishing to know the names of some of Sunni fuqahas of our time. So far i have had no response. Plz answer here or in my thread at, http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-scripture/307993-top-sunni-jurisprudence-faqih.html

And if sis ramesha referenced something out of context then plz provide us the right context as we wud all love to comapre the meaning and learn the truth.

as for the story abt Gabriel making a mistake abt nabowat, the person u mentioned was probably high on something or he wudnt have uttered such foolishness. All the Shias unanimously agree that our Prophet was born a Prophet and Gabriel only told him to convey the message he was born to bring to the humanity. And if Gabriel cant differentiate between 40 year old Habib Allah and 13 year old Wali Allah, then i am not sure why he is head of the angels of Allah. btw do u know that Imam Ali has himself said “I am a slave of the salves of the Prophet”. Allahu Abkbar!

90

Re: What actually happened at Karbala

crescent and others who speak seriously good urdu, and wish to know about wilayat, i wud highly recommend the following lecture by Ayatollah Syed Aqeel ul Gharavi,

[googlevid]2886697727477824827[/googlevid]

91

what you have written there is greek to me :)

I could not follow your logic. maybe it is because you are not making any sense.
you see you are in a dilemma. you think whatever good or bad is done is because God has intended it to be like.

so let me come back to the cricket analogy. so the captain asks one of his players to get out as soon possible. they all do. but then the captain it was their fault because they played bad shots? that does not make sense.

If it is God's plan, why should he punish the people who do wrong?

92

this is so sad, its the 21st century, duniya kahan sey kahan tak pohanch gayi, and we are still stuck in the stone-age, arguing over baseless accusations regarding the fundamentals of Deen.

On the basis of a couple of ‘shia friends’, you accepted and believed this horrendous allegation blindly and ever since, this is what you think shias stand for thus altering tha kalima for them? sad. thats why people need to read themselves, listen to learned alims who know what they are talking about. thats what i have done. All the good shia alims I have listened to or read have the basis of their arguments on Nabowat itself. Scholars like talib johry and kalb-e-sadiq, spend a good part of their majalis just talking about the pillar of Nabowat and Khatam-e-Nobowat.

As i said earlier

.

93

My visiting relatives. I have to be a good host and take them to majalis.

94

I like how you put Shia in quotation marks, because they probably are not the Twelver, Khamanei/Khomeni/Sistani/Fadlallah type of Shia, but the Alawi kind of Shia. My father had some Syrian friends who were Alawi with that kind of belief about Ali supposed to getting the prophetic revelation.

95

some people are just curious. i have been to churches, mosques and imam bargahs ( synagogues are something i have never attended). my purpose was to see what is that thing that attracts people to all this.
there are other people who go for social reasons. you might find many atheists who are regular church goers or are "practicing" muslims. to them, going to the worship place is a ritual they have to do so that they wont be considered outcasts.

Re-emergence of PML-Q
96

Thats one reason i find it very difficult to listen to preachers and clergy, they never seem to be able to put things concisely. I mean who will listen to 1 hour 45 minutes lecture.

97

Re: What actually happened at Karbala

^ ever watched a one and half hour soccer game? or may be a 8 hr ODI?

And if you cant appreciate the Ilm of this man, then i feel sorry for u (unless u r a non urdu speaker & cant get what he is saying)

98

Yes have watched soccer game and 5 day test as well between India and Pakistan, but, i will not ask a brazillian to watch a test match with me and expect him to be interested like me for 5 days. I may ask him to watch a 20/20.

But thats besides teh point, the clergy often have the habit of stretching teh talk, well ofcourse, it does wonders when there is a cheering crowd, but its not the best for someone whom you want to draw into hearing ur side of argument. Now i am by no means blaming this man, its all clergy, even non-muslims that i see doing it.

Remember my local mosque's khateeb delivering a sermon like this,

"Ek dafa ka zikar hai, meiN akaila ja raha tha,
rastey meiN koi nahiN tha
na kutta tha na billa tha
na charind tha, na parind tha
koi nahiN tha
meiN akela ja raha tha"

Though the first sentence was enough to convey the meaning.

The clergy shud learn from Prophet saw, i have heard that he asked people to keep the talk brief. Hence see the sermons of Prophet saw, they are brief, to the point and so beautiful.

99

Re: What actually happened at Karbala

pagluu ur preacher is not saying something new , he is glossing over the historical facts which are preserved by both shia & sunni scholars which clearly prove that the present day ithna ashari sect was not a ideology that was prevalent amongst early muslims

simply proving wilayat is not enough to prove the 12er POV
this concept evolved over time and has not been excluive to 12er sect

Iconolclast its not about brief or long its, about giving both sides of the picture and letting the audience decide ...obviously for this chap thats not an option as his livelihood depends on it .....he just wants to mesmerise people with obscure references and difficult words.

100

Re: What actually happened at Karbala

Das, your jealousy and frustration is understandable given the quality and standard of sum lectures that u post a while back of "your" Sheikh Ninowy! lol

As for my faith, Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.