Actually no, I have no problem with that. My problem is that, you and likes of you, who keep attacking expats as we owe you & yours something. We don’t. And for awhile you were attacking everyone pretending that you were in Pakistan calling others non-muslims who were ill equipped to comment on Pakistan…except theres something called IP that can be checked to see where you are posting from. Since, I pointed that out to you…you have been on defensives claiming to be a diplomat stuck in a terrible country against your will.
Reha … You are asking me to show something that I didn’t say is there … Islam does not say anything about it being forbidden to hit shoes on our parents heads, but you and me both know that it is not Islamic to do that. Likewise, Islam does forbid insulting others, because it recognises a very real natural response of anger, which is irrational but prevalent in people, especially those who are challenged emotionally. Islam recognises that winding people up about religious beliefs will stimulate such responses, but it asks us to curb our emotions, when done to us … It would not ask us to curb our emotions if it was not true that people are necessarily affected by insults.
Coming back to the OP … Some Muslims here have hissy fits when Islam is insulted. Likewise, some Americans here have hissy fits when America is challenged … I would expect American Muslims who don’t have hissy fits for one to not have hissy fits for the other …
@psyah bhi I do not think, Reha and Company would ever understand the true meaning of Freedom of Speech… If your words incite violence, then it is not free speech, just like insulting others on this forum does not come under free speech. Actually, we have two extremes, One extreme defends Limitless Freedom of speech concept, while the other one, attacks minorities. There are laws and Nobody should be allowed to take law in hands, Let gov and court deal with such people and issues. The Rigidity of these two extremes is responsible for defaming ISLAM. Ignorance and Ignorance. May ALLAH give us Hadaayat , AMEEN.
His math is very poor. First he said 4 types of women, could count to only 3. I do hope he does not pass fatawa on math. For eg. “16+5 is indeed 17. Marry him or lashes!”
Actually this is incorrect. Our religion commands us to respect our parents very explicitly. Its plain as day and there is no mistaking it. Respecting our parents is NOT left up to common sense…it is explained multiple times and in many different ways. So that example of hitting shoes on our parents’ heads…is a bad example and incorrect.
I want to see where Islam leaves it up to mere mortals to interpret religion.
When there are directions available for simple things like how to drink water and what side to sleep on…then who are you people to make up your own version of Islam? What kind of Islam is this that is scared and acts like it has something to hide? What is this obsession of hiding things and not having the guts to talk about them?
The thing is…none of you have any real proof that Islam promotes aggression in the name of religion. Freedom of speech is real and necessary in order to have a functioning and stable society.
I still have not gotten a single Hadith or verse from the Qur’an where its stated that violence or aggression is allowed in the name of faith…that hate should be responded to with hate.
If you cannot prove that then I want examples of how the Prophet (saw) showed us how to deal with negative speech. Let’s see what you have in your bag of tricks.
I consider people who think they are defending Islam to be the culprits of the issues we have today in the Muslim world. If we didn’t have these so called defenders…we’d be way better off.
You have literally said the same thing in this post again … You are asking me to provide you a Hadith where violence or aggression is allowed in the name of the faith … There are some Muslims who will delight in showing you these, according to their own mindset and persuasion … But I have never made that argument, so it is not for me to show you them. You are asking from me justification for violence, when I am not making that argument.
My argument is human natural response to insult … Not faith based response to insult. Our faith came to curb the natural response that humans exhibit to insult. My clear argument is that history and experiment teaches us that insulting others creates fitnah, to insult those who they cherish dearly is even more dangerous. This is not Islam … This is human nature … Muslims who are untrained in certain sciences that deal with the self will be unable to manage, because they learnt how to love, but failed to learn temperance and patience. The Muslims who seem to handle such insults from religion are generally also not trained to deal with insults per se, because when they are insulted in other ways they respond likewise. They could feel the harm in the insult for their nationality, race or family members, etc … Very few Muslims or people can handle insults, especially in this day and age when ego is raised on a pedestal and consumerism teaches us to have no control on desire.
Islam does indeed tell us not to insult others because of fitnah … It is a form of harming others … Hence, we must also speak out against “freedom to insult” as being some aspect of libertarian values, it is not. Insulting is a form of violence. Islam tells us to curb hatred and anger that is true … But it also tells us not to incite hatred or insult others, because it recognises the condition of untrained human souls.
If we allow our societies to continue insulting others then we are making the world a dangerous place.
Psyah how the heck did consumerism become responsible for violent reaction to insults. Is this what is plaguing the conservative wing of the Taliban?
You propose we must speak out against freedom to insult. How about speaking out against those who react violently to insults? Rather than make excuses that almost justify their behavior.
The day when Muslims stop being offended from insults at our religion is a sign of our lack of proximity to our faith. Islam tells us how to react and absorb the offending elements. i.e. It tells us how to react … But it does not teach us not to be offended … That would contradict the concern humans naturally show for what they love … If we love something enough then any insult of that becomes offensive to us. If we don’t feel offended then we are simply not in love with it enough. This is human psyche … And it is a perfect gauge for the external elements to see what is the inner condition of the Muslim and by extension all people towards their faith.
So if someone disagrees with the Hadith or Qur’an, its an automatic insult and deserves what exactly in your eyes? Every single Muslim I meet is a self proclaimed Mufti of some sort so I’d love to hear your take on this.
If you’re talking about harassment, its a different issue. But people are allowed to disagree and dislike any religion and that includes Islam with all of its aspects.
Freedom of speech is a necessity because otherwise people will never learn to tolerate. They will simply continue to kill people in the name of Tauheen-e-Risalat.
Islam tells us to combat hate with love…and that is what our Prophet saw did. If the average Muslim believes he is too good to follow the example sent to us from Allah swt…then he isn’t a Muslim.
, right now I dont.