Southie … Firstly, prevention is better than cure, Secondly, I conform to an Islamic understanding that works on human hearts to being able to deal with these things in grace and excellence. So yes … I am also tacitly saying the cure to the condition is found here too. Thirdly, if you understood consumerism as being a unbridled desire to have, as I understand it, then people will engage in “unbridled desire to have … revenge” … In this case. History teaches us insults lead to violence and playground insults leads to violence which is why insults are forbidden in schools … Yet, when kids grow up, wear suits and go to the office for some reason we are allowed to insult others. That is hypocrisy.
On one hand, you stated we should stand up against “freedom to insult”
On the other hand, you state folks are understandably offended at insults to their religion.
It would be more responsible for a follower of non violence to categorically condemns violent response to insults. And to state such response are not in line with the teachings of said faith.
The mixed messages in ur posts can confuse impressionable people. Especially those straddling the fence.
Muslims (us common folk) should not put ourselves in the position to agree or disagree with Hadith and certainly not the Qur’an that would endanger our Islam. We should be content with saying I understand that Hadith or Ayah and I don’t understand that Hadith or Ayah.
The claim of disagreeing or agreeing with matters in religion is tantamount to claiming mufti status.
Yet disagreement and dislike is a personal affair … No one knows about it … But through insult … The insulters are trying to persuade others away from their faith and if they cannot manage complete disassociation they are content with emotional separation leaving the members nominal adherents only. That is problematic for me. I want to see Muslims and other members of faith grow in their love for their religion and in focusing on The Divine.
But worse is that Muslims and any people who cannot be teased away from the type of ridicule will react and do so violently … It is a stupid response, but a natural one. Look at football hooliganism … A team loses a match with a rival, when the players get taunted, and they have lost control through alcohol consumption, they react violently. It is natural but stupid.
We see it in nationalism too.
Freedom of speech including insults only seems like a necessary to yourself due to the society you are in. When analysed for instances in such a society you will see a bitterly opposite scenario. Rap artists who insult other Rap artists often turn to violence … Increasing insults does not make people more tolerant it makes them either less affiliated to any ideology or more violent … The people who are not affiliated to any cause are easily controlled and that is desirable for the elite to remain the elite.
The highest societies in history were also the societies that were most respectful to others … Study them and you will see that I am right. Modernity is wrong if it thinks freedom to insult increases human progress.
Southie … My religion teaches me not to insult others. That is what I think is relevant for all people. Not to insult others. But because my religion teaches me to have high expectations for myself, and not holding others to high expectations! It means … Yes, I must not react violently … But I can’t expect others to follow suit, if they were insulted.
The way I teach myself to avoid violence is to absorb insult … They way I ensure others are not violent is to respect them, not to offend them. It makes complete sense to me …
In your world, NOT reacting VIOLENTLY to insults is equivalent to meeting HIGH expectations. In a civilized society, NOT reacting VIOLENTLY to insults is par for the course. That is and should be the norm.
Civilised society does not insult others and certainly does not encourage it. That is the norm for a civilised society. I said that my personal expectations are not to react violently … Holding others to my expectations is a form of oppression. Observe society Southie … Don’t create ideals in a vacuum.
You know what I think is really lame? That no one in this thread even knows or understands the meaning of the word “faith”.
Its sad to see how little faith Muslims have in Islam and Allah swt. I guess its a sign of Qayamat…that even the religious won’t really be religious.
Psyah…Islam, Allah swt, our Prophet saw…don’t need your protection. This religion was brought into this world without you, thrived without you and will continue to grow without you. Please don’t be under any misconceptions that Islam needs or asks you for your blood or that it depends on a few weak shoulders.
What Islam asks for and needs…none of you are willing to give.
Insulting is okay…I am not scared of anyone that insults my faith. It shows me they’re probably not very informed, cultured, educated, etc.
Islam forbids to insult others … How can it be okay?
Well if that is your position fine … Perhaps understanding others is what is needed here. Most people will not think insulting is okay.
Notice … I’m not responding to your personal remarks about me.
Freedom of speech is not a license to insult other people or religions, I’m not sure how that is ever going to be okay? If freedom of speech is really freedom of speech, then why does the West get their panties on fire at the mere denial of Holocaust? :halo:
Would you be okay if someone insulted you or your loved once? If they called you names? Made cartoons of your mom or dad with sexual content?
No you wouldn’t. So stop pretending. Stop being a hypocrite
Of course civilized society does not insult others beliefs. There is bound to be some uncivilized folks who do so.
Those who react violently to such insults are ALSO UNcivilized. To state that is not creating "ideals in a VACUUM " That is the least expectations one can have from a civilized society.
That you repeatedly have now stated otherwise is one of the root causes of such violent behavior. Your statement is a tacit approval of such conduct
This is what folks mean when they say such behavior need outright condemnation.
There is nothing hypocritical about what Reha stated. Read her entire post and maybe you will understand. Rather than cherry picking a sentence here and there.
in every society there will be some folks who insult other religions. The issue is - does that warrant a VIOLENT response. The answer from civilized and peace loving folks would be a RESOUNDING NO. The aplogists for such violence make excuses.
Let me see what is done by the West when they face pure insult, slander or the likes … You claim civilised society exists in the Western Hemisphere (through tolerating insult) and I will show you that it is a pipe dream.
Please provide what laws are in place to prevent violent reactions to insults, I have given you examples of law that focus on the insulters rather than the insulted.
Unless u are less than 10 yrs old calling people hypocrites and rolling eyes don’t look good on no one. So keep ur advice to urself. And stick to the topic
unless u missed the discussions violence was being discussed. No intelligent person would claim one should not be upset when ones religion is being insulted. The only point of Contention is how should one respond. And yes use of bullsh also doesn’t fit ur age.
