I don't understand MQ why you have highlighted "may be recognised" as women of many faiths and cultures wear a scarf.
Christians, Jews and Sikhs to name but three others/
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by hiccup: *
All your quotes pertain towards being modestly dressed, which I have always maintained is AN islamic code of dress.
For an english teacher your comprehension skills sure suck. I said "we" and I speak colelctively here, are pissed off with with who presume that they can patronise. If you couple that with being a haijaaban than that says more about you than about any other issue at hand.
The whole argument is flawed, I wouldn't be so offended if it wasnt for shmucks like Fita who don't have beards, telling us we are insecure for not wearing Hijaabs. And frankly, the red and blue writing is something my sister could do better at. The legic is flawed nd so forth.
Why was the nonHijaaban portrayed as a bimbo, becasue she doesnt cover her hair she must be a stupid shmuck like those of you who patronise? Again logically flawd.
I havnt nothing against Hijaabans, my mother was an Hijaaban, my little sister is, they are fulfilling what they see as their religious duty, however if my mother has never rammed her religious leanings down my throat who the **** are you?
That my dear muslim queen is what pisses me off.
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So you go off and start hurling personal insults? Oh come now I thought you of all people would not bring all that mess into a discussion.My dear ,whether Im an English teacher or a Desi ghar wali , has got absolutely nothing to do with the fact that in your opinion I lack skills needed for proper comprehension.
Nobody used your name and nobody said that females who do not wear a hijab are "bimbos".Nobody said you do NOT dress modestly- unless I missed something here.So why bring something into the discussion thats clearly not being said.I know "some" people have a very narrow way of looking at the world.However, I am not one of those.90% of my friends do not wear a hijab.And a vast majority of my relatives do not either.And most of these females do not give two hoots about modest dressing.However, they are still my family and my friends.They are not lower in my eyes.
Nobody is patronizing here- or rather I am not.If Fita doesnt have a beard thats his decision, just like its yours to not wear a hijab.Everyone has a right to their opnions, however he/she should try to discuss them in a mature manner.Which I must say is very rare on gs.Maybe your sister could be better at writing it, maybe she could even carry a conversation without attacking people.The possibilities are endless.
The hijaban is not portayed as a "bimbo".I in fact have had conversations with my OWN , intelligent whatnot friends, who have said things far more ridiculous then what we see in this post about wearing a hijab. Its simply taking two completely different views and putting them together. Such a conversation does not mean that all Hijabans are perfect or that all non hijabans are doomed to burn in hell.That is the generalization people are making.They should not be so narrow minded.
My comprehension skills may be greatly flawed but I hope that my manners are a bit more intact.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by MiniMe: *
PA, so why dont you tell us that you have Ph.D. in Arabic and you can teach us how the Quran is read.
Please enlighten us.
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that's the whole issue MiniMe bhai jaan.. the Qur'an wasn't revealed to a people with PhD's in the Arabic language.. It was meant to be in a language they understood and also meant to be very clear and simple so they understand what was being discussed.. u didn't need Qarshi kee guides to understand it.. however our Mullahs (sorry ammarr) have made it such that we aren't allowed to read and attempt to understand it ourselves.. we MUST get their opinion on it.
The topic (as most other topics) have been discussed many times.. u can find the discussion and my interepretations of it.. (done when i was young and energetic for these discussions). if u do a search for Hijaab.. if not.. i'll try to look it up and copy a link..
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sun Shine: *
Could this not be interpreted as a 'duppata,' or 'chaadar' covering their head to be drawn over their bosoms?
It doesn't mean strictly hijab then does it???
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I think those are all different names for a basic piece of cloth that covers the body.
PakistaniAbroad--I have read the Quran as it was meant to be read and not as how I wanted to read it.People can interpret the Quran as they like, but one would have to be an idiot not to get the basic message.
Hiccy---* however if my mother has never rammed her religious leanings down my throat who the **** are you?*
The religion is not personal property for anybody.Not your mother and not myself.Its a faith my dear.She shouldnt have to shove it down your throat and I wouldnt think of it.Its too good to be shoved down anybodys throat.You want to believe in it fine, you dont also fine.A Faith does not beg.It is just so.God will not beg people to believe in what he wants them to.He gives them the choice.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Muslim_Queen: *
Hiccy---* however if my mother has never rammed her religious leanings down my throat who the **** are you?*
The religion is not personal property for anybody.Not your mother and not myself.Its a faith my dear.She shouldnt have to shove it down your throat and I wouldnt think of it.Its too good to be shoved down anybodys throat.You want to believe in it fine, you dont also fine.A Faith does not beg.It is just so.God will not beg people to believe in what he wants them to.He gives them the choice.
[/QUOTE]
Do you know why in my eyes Islam is so amazing? It is a personal religion, one which I do not have to justify to you or to my priest or to my local government or even to my own mother.
My mother mashallah sai is highly intelligent, if she so wished she too could've subtly played the moral card to compell me to wear hijaab, but she has tld me what is compulsary inour religion, and heres a bolt of lightning for you. In Islam, there is no compulsion in religion.
A faith "my dear" is compiled of a set of belief systems, based on teachings and words, you should be well aware, words are open to many interpretations. The argument you have is your interpretation is better or more superior than mine.
Again I say "you " and "your" not entirely literally. I am sure now you will be able to diffretiate.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Muslim_Queen: *
So you go off and start hurling personal insults? Oh come now I thought you of all people would not bring all that mess into a discussion.
Nobody used your name and nobody said that females who do not wear a hijab are "bimbos".
Nobody is patronizing here- or rather I am not.
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err DQ.. when you start your argument :P like this , and let me quote "Why are all the non hijabans suddenly on fire?" , and get personal, you are definitely asking for it
:)
2Bad--- I saw more asterisks (***) in this thread than words.I guess that might have had something to do with it.I would love to call back up, but Im a one woman army.Besides Im not used to words that turn into stars once typed.
Hiccy--- I respect a lot of people and their opinions.You are one of those people.I have not jumped up to insult you, and I apologize if I sounded patronizing.It was not my intention, perhaps its the way I talk online.But you know me well enough to understand exactly where Im coming from.
As for your posts, yes they did seem like they were more personal ,I wasnt aware people debated and used the "you're an English teacher so you must know the 101 tips about comprehension" line.Again I assume I am mistaken.
Again Islam is a beautiful religion.People are not perfect ,but the faith is.I think its a very interesting debate - about hijab.I know people who have started wearing it, and I also know people who have stopped wearing it.Its all about what you wish to follow of your faith.Not what others want.If another person has to "make" you do anything , its pointless, because you have to "want" to do it in your own heart.
What else? Im stuck in my room and Im hungry!:o
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by hiccup: *
The whole argument is flawed, I wouldn't be so offended if it wasnt for shmucks like Fita who don't have beards, telling us we are insecure for not wearing Hijaabs. And frankly, the red and blue writing is something my sister could do better at. The legic is flawed nd so forth.
[/QUOTE]
Tell em why you're mad, kid.
I've never said you're insecure for not wearing a hijab, merely because of your childish outbursts everytime the topic is brought up.
PS. When I use the word Hijab I don't specifically mean head-covering.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
the word "hijaab" has never been used in the context of a dress code for women.. The self proclaimed scholars of Islam will have you believe it.. like all other things they point to the Qur'an but when challenged come out with obscure interpretations based on other literature to distort the meanings of the Qur'an..
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ok pakistani abroad we admit it, you are the khalifa of allah on this earth only your damn interpretations of quran are correct even though you probably cant even translate one sentence of arabic. only your speech is fatwa even though there are people who have spent their lives studying islam but they are piece of bull crap, only you are the guided muslim the rest of us are all sheep herders milking our sheep and sleeping with them at night.
any thing else you want? make you our king and bow to you?any thing ?
naaaah.. just keep paying your jizya and i’ll let you be 
Hi!
What is Hijjab???
Is it observing parda and wearing burqa; if it is this; I have no problem with it; but I have problem using hijjab instead of using DOPATTA which is our Pakistani Culture. I am against Asians trying to adopt arabs culture. Our Dopatta is like a Chadar and covers us well. I am against arabization of Pakistani culture in every field of our life; including our urdu language is getting Arabized. For example to say Faida mand/ karamad, now we use the word fall banana and another example to meet target we have the word but now we are using Hadaf.
There is delibrate attempt of non patriotic Pakistani to spoil our language and culture. Ya Demah he itnna kam hai ka samag he nahe patay kay iss tarhan apnay peyaray say moulk kou nouqsan pouncha rahey hain.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sokoon: *
Hi!
What is Hijjab???
Is it observing parda and wearing burqa; if it is this; I have no problem with it; but I have problem using hijjab instead of using DOPATTA which is our Pakistani Culture. I am against Asians trying to adopt arabs culture. Our Dopatta is like a Chadar and covers us well. I am against arabization of Pakistani culture in every field of our life; including our urdu language is getting Arabized. For example to say Faida mand/ karamad, now we use the word fall banana and another example to meet target we have the word but now we are using Hadaf.
There is delibrate attempt of non patriotic Pakistani to spoil our language and culture. Ya Demah he itnna kam hai ka samag he nahe patay kay iss tarhan apnay peyaray say moulk kou nouqsan pouncha rahey hain.
[/QUOTE]
So all who wear Pants and shirts are following western culture?
Dear, Hijab is oneway to observe the pardha, if that can be done by Do-Patta or Chader there is nothing wrong in it. But dear Do-Patta (double folded) especially can never even come closer to chader, so there is no comparison. And as long as we think that Hijab is part of Arab culture then I am sure we are on the right track. Would you like to expalin which Arab culture we are following by Hijab?
and About Urdu, the last I read based on different studies, was bsed on Arabi Farsi Sansikret and Turkish words and I think that’s the reason its known as Urdu.
The only deliberate attempt by non patriotic Pakistani's is to keep Islam out of our daily lives, and Alhamdulillah you can see they have lot of support.
^
Hijjab which arab wear is scarf, it only covers head. In many arabic countries with short dress they cover their hair with scarf uptil now.
They call this as hijjab---just covering your head,it can be with sleiveless , knee high frocks.
If you --Pakistani have educated them about wearing Doppata and wearing coat. Then call that dress code as patriotic Pakistani should, as Purda, or burqa or doppata what ever method one uses it but do not call it hijjab.
Regarding urdu---urdu means LASHKARI.
It was made delibrately during mughal rule in india, for army and to understand each other, as well as rulers, since india has many languages and from many school of languages people were working in the army; communication was a great problem among them.
The people oppointed to do this great job of making urdu language and the people who wanted to communicate, in that ara under mughal empire were all persian speaking , though some of those ruler were originally turks.And army people were indians-who were speaking different languages. Far flunge there was no arab or arabic country involved in this senario.
So urdu was derived or made from the base language persian and grammar was sanscrit.
Since turish resemble persian, so it was understood by all army and all rulers easily and had solved a great problem.
Regarding arabic words in persian, that is another debate. Arabs say their language was first and persian say their language was first. I am not inteested in these two languages. I am concern with our own language Urdu, as a proud Pakistani thats all. And I would be pleased that we should not change the history to merely please a few friends. world goes on.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by hiccup: *
A faith "my dear" is compiled of a set of belief systems, based on teachings and words, you should be well aware, words are open to many interpretations. The argument you have is your interpretation is better or more superior than mine.
[/QUOTE]
You've hit the nail on the head. This is the crux of the matter, the issue at the heart of religious debate in the widest sense, not just to hijab - absolutism, black-and-whitism, ritualistic formulae, excessive obsession with minutiae....this board is filled with it
Sorry I'm off topic but your point was so fundamental...
not another one of these threads.. when do they stop?
why do people have to impose “their” personal beliefs on the entire poppulation…
PA and hiccup were the only two people with logical arguments here..
hiccup, ur mum sounds like a gem.. its good to know that ur free to practice ur religion to ur own understanding. Mashallah thats great :k:
MQ, the verses you have referenced, do not anywhere state that hijab is a piece of cloth tied around ur head. My nani ma taught Islam to children for years and she only wore a dupatta on her head.. i didnt see any maulvi or Imam, in the school she taught, condemn her in any way. Maybe because hijab is not simply a head covering… if it were, do u not believe that Allah Mian would have put it in claer words?
How bout we all just interpret that as we think best.. ?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sadzzz: *
MQ, the verses you have referenced, do not anywhere state that hijab is a piece of cloth tied around ur head. My nani ma taught Islam to children for years and she only wore a dupatta on her head.. i didnt see any maulvi or Imam, in the school she taught, condemn her in any way. Maybe because hijab is not simply a head covering... if it were, do u not believe that Allah Mian would have put it in claer words?
How bout we all just interpret that as we think best.. ?
[/QUOTE]
Actually when it is mentioned that
"And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; and that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands..." (Qur'an 24:30-31)
I could very well say that "beauty" would include the entire body.I would say that the face and hair are also part of a womans beauty that should be reserved only for the husbands.Heavens even eyes should be corvered if we are to make sure that "all" of the "beauty" is reserved for the hubby!
As for your naani, what can I say , somebody elses naani might have done a niqaab.Depends on people and how far they will go to make sure they are following Quranic ayahs correctly.
Btw when one prays salah women must cover up properly..similar when reciting Quran.But then again some people will choose to and others will refuse to.
For everyone.
Bottom line--- Nobody is imposing anything.We are simply educating each other.You teach me something, I teach you something.
People should not take this as offence on such a personal level.Its a debate.Keep an open mind and an open heart.
It matters to me not whether some people find my argument logical, but only that I have voiced my opinions with correct information.
ps.It would help a lot if people looked past my nick.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Muslim_Queen: *
Actually when it is mentioned that
"And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; and that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands..." (Qur'an 24:30-31)
I could very well say that "beauty" would include the entire body.I would say that the face and hair are also part of a womans beauty that should be reserved only for the husbands.Heavents even eyes should be corvered if we are to make sure that "all" of the "beauty" is reserved for the hubby!
[/quote]
MQ, thats ur interpretation yeah? what u think is classified as beauty, may be completely different to somenoe else... a lot of people find the face quite attractive... then wouldnt u say, that a proper hijabi should also be covering the entire face?
[quote]
As for your naani, what can I say , somebody elses naani might have done a niqaab.Depends on people and how far they will go to make sure they are following Quranic ayahs correctly.
[/quote]
i tried not takign offense to this, but i am. Ur indirectly stating that my nani ma wasnt practising Islam properly.. and i think thats quite a big judgement on ur part. She dressed modestly and spoke with manners.. and i think in her mind she practised Islam quite well.. may Allah Mian bless her soul
[quote]
Btw when one prays salah women must cover up properly..similar when reciting Quran.But then again some people will choose to and others will refuse to.
[/quote]
covering "properly" is different to different people MQ. Where I prayed in uni, all us girls dressed and prayed different. Some girls wore gloves while praying.. some just a simple dupatta.. not one person condemned another.. and pointed out that so and so was praying wrong..
[quote]
Bottom line--- Nobody is imposing anything.We are simply educating each other.You teach me something, I teach you something.
[/quote]
no, i have a feeling.. noone is listening to one another.. can u ever state and believe that a woman not wearing a scarf can actually be a decent and blessed muslimah? i doubt it...
[quote]
People should not take this offence on such a personal level.Its a debate.Keep an open mind and an open heart.
It matters to me no whether some people find my argument logical, but only that I have voiced my opinions with correct information.
[/QUOTE]
we are trying to keep an open mind and heart, but when things like As for your naani, what can I say , somebody elses naani might have done a niqaab.Depends on people and how far they will go to make sure they are following Quranic ayahs correctly. get mentioned.. i think it gets quite personal
b/w does flirting, dressing attractively, being hurtful defeat the purpose of the surah you posted?