Re: Waseela Se Mangna
after reading the beautiful hadees of our rasool s.a.w is it not clear about the permisibility of wasila?
well im here im not going anywhere, lets discuss and make things clear in the light of islamic books.
Re: Waseela Se Mangna
Peace wais88,
I’ll quote the same verse which u quoted earlier. Chapter 5 verse 35:
In this verse ‘Taqwa’ might be translated “Fear of Allah”, but the very next clause shows that “Fear of Allah” does not mean “Fear” in the ordinary sense, which would make you avoid the object of fear (that if I don’t approach to this or that person then he/she might be get angry and if he/she angry than Almighty Allah will be angry). On the contrary the “Fear of Allah is the intense desire to avoid everything that is against His Will and Law”. It is in fact duty to Almighty Allah, for we are told to seek ardently the means by which we may approach Him, and that can only be done by striving with might and main for His cause.
All said next: “and seek the Wasilah to Him”. Wasilah means ‘the means of approach’. ‘Wasilah’ is a means of approach to achieve something, and it is also used to refer to the highest grade in Paradise, and it is the grade of the Messenger 
, his residence and the nearest grade in Paradise to Allah’s Throne.
Moreover, Almighty Allah says in Chapter 17 verse 56 and 57: "Say, “Invoke those you have claimed [as gods] besides Him, for they do not possess the [ability for] removal of adversity from you or [for its] transfer [to someone else].” Those whom they invoke seek means of access to their Lord, [striving as to] which of them would be nearest, and they hope for His mercy and fear His punishment. Indeed, the punishment of your Lord is ever feared".
In the above verse, Almighty Allah clearly stated that ‘those’ whom ‘they’ invoke are actually seeking means of access to Lord by themselve, how can be waseela for others.
Re: Waseela Se Mangna
such beautiful verses have been quoted the beautiful and very knowledgible words from the creator of everything.
but i still dont see anything up there which stops us from taking wasila.
the first quoted verse actually authorises wasila clearly.
and the second one is a whole new topic, its not about wasila its infact about worship, wasila and worship are two very different topics.
i want you to understand that wasila is a medium or support or impact.
whereas worship is a totally different topic(lets not go in tafsilaat of worship now).
wasila is obligatory for every person who has not yet directly connected to allah.
let me bring some clarity by an example
when you want to pusrchase some equipment say you want to buy a can of coca cola.
what do you do to get it?
you directly go to coca cola factory?
or
do you go to a cold drink retailer?
answer is retailer ofcoarse.
the coca cola which you get at the retailer is not manufactured at his shop but still you can get that drink there. because retailer is connected to the coca cola.
similarly when we seek for wasila of anybody it is our means to connect to allah, because you and me are still not enough pious to get from him directly, for that there’s a long hard path to walk.
and in your second quoted verse the very first wors ‘say’ is of very deep meaning and it supports the wasila.
‘say’ or in arabic its ‘qul’ its allah talking to his beloved propet s.a.w. it is allah’s means of connecting to us. allah himself has used a means or a medium why?
it is allah’s way of teaching us to seek for wasila.
i think the fact of necessity and importance of wasila is been cleared to some extent…
so you see like i had said wherever you see in any book of islam be it quran or hadees or books written by great awliyas, it will always be in favor of wasila.
Re: Waseela Se Mangna
Peace wais88,
I afraid I hav to disagree with u what u stated above. In your ‘coca cola’ example, I assume a person have a choice either he/she directly go to the factory or to the retailer NOT insisted or forced him/her to go to the retailer only and not to the factory. And the ‘connected’ part, do any ‘waseela’ holder ever said that if u don’t ask through my ‘connected waseela’ then u’ll won’t get heaven, ur dua won’t be accepted or u will be disliked by Almighty Allah? When we have direct flight then why one should go through connected flights? I don’t understand 
That verse is very important and we need to understand that those who depend on others are remain dependent for rest of his/her life. In other words he/she claim that we trust on Almighty Allah but in fact that are merely some self-assuagement types wording and in reality He/she has nil trust.
Dear brother, Almighty Allah said in Surah Al Imran verse 31: " Say if you should love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you", in Surah Al Nisa verse 64: “And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allah”, in Surah Al Nisa verse 80: “He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah”.
Prophet Muhammad said in ‘Last Khutba’ that I’m leaving two things among you, u won’t get astray till u r holding them. (1) Quran and (2) My Sunnah. No where He ordered/said to seek ‘waseela’. The four Imams (Shafi, Hanafi, Hunbali, Malki) of four Schools of thought said if you find any of our sayings contradict any narrations of Prophet then reject what we said. They didn’t said that what we said is like a line on stone which should be followed because we are connected to Prophet’s sayings and He connected to Almighty Allah.
So my dear brother, ‘waseela’ is there and that is ‘Sunnah’ of our Prophet
Re: Waseela Se Mangna
oooo mr.lkk who have quoted such beautiful verses again but a sad fact is the one who taught you the above verses is lacking knowledge(no offence, i can prove it)
come lets bring light on wasila through the very verses that you have quoted above.
firstly,
QUL 'IN KUNTUM TUH.IBBON
'ALLAAH FA- ITTABIcO -NE
YUH.BIB -KUM 'ALLAAH WA-
YAGHFIR LA- -KUM DHUNOB -
KUM WA- 'ALLAAH GHAFOR
RAH.EM
this is 31 verse of surah al imran.
the very first word indicates the means through which allah talks.
QUL(say) allah is guiding his prophet s.a.w here to say to mankind. from now on remember whats meant by the word QUL in quran.
Say, (O Muhammad, to
mankind): If ye love Allah,
follow me; Allah will love you
and forgive you your sins. Allah
is Forgiving, Merciful. (pickthall) see how allah himself is coming to us by the MEANS of his beloved s.a.w and this confirms the importance of wasila. and there is not a single verse in quran in which allah says “follow me” infact wherever you read you will find “follow my prophet” or “follow awliya” read quran a million times if you want to you will never find allah asking you to follow him.
Re: Waseela Se Mangna
and the latter half of the verse 64 surah al nisa is not quoted by you why? well maybe you forgot so ill quote it for you my friend.
If they (sinners),
when they had been unjust to
themselves, had come to you
(Muhammad ) and
begged Allah's Forgiveness,
and the Messenger had
begged forgiveness for them:
indeed, they would have
found Allah All-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
there there there so beautifully allah confirms the importance of wasila. so beautiful is my lord in explaining to us how he wants us to connect to him.
in above verse allah himself says that those sinners who took the wasila of his prophet s.a.w to seek forgiveness they have found allah most forgiving.
why did they find allah most forgiving? simple, allah did forgive them.
why did allah forgive them? they were sinners how can they connect to allah?
there's a beautiful answer there, they were forgiven because they connected to allah by the medium through which allah connects to them.
so beautiful is our lord and so loving is our prophet s.a.w who begs on behalf of us sinners, and we here are discussing whether he s.a.w is necessary or not? (may allah forgive me) really a shameful act to argue on this.
you can certainly go try at coca cola factory and ask them to just let you in, you'll be asked to leave firstly with respect and later with disrespect.
and since you believe its sunnah to take wasila then what in the world is stopping you from seeking wasila?
and i say when allah himself is saying that he did forgive the ones who asked for his forgiveness through wasila then what in the world is still making you think that you can directly get from allah?
if wasila would not be important then allah would not had asked us to seek for wasila.
and we should try to do what sahaba used to do, and show me where have sahaba, which sahaba has asked to allah directly, they always went to prophet s.a.w blessed feet, they (sahaba) infact begged directly from prophet s.a.w and prophet s.a.w gave them whatever they asked for. if that would be wrong then prophet s.a.w would have stopped them and would had said ask from allah beg from allah.
my iman my knowledge says me of begging with wasila and this is an undenyable fact.
so after this clarification i trust you that you will realize what is wasila.
wa ammaalaina innalbala
Re: Waseela Se Mangna
the very first word indicates the means through which allah talks.
QUL(say) Allah is guiding his Prophet s.a.w here to say to mankind. from now on remember whats meant by the word QUL in quran.
see how Allah Himself is coming to us by the MEANS of His beloved s.a.w and this confirms the importance of wasila. and there is not a single verse in quran in which allah says "follow me" infact wherever you read you will find "follow my Prophet" or "follow awliya" read quran a million times if you want to you will never find Allah asking you to follow him.
Peace wais88,
(Check the coloured words in ur post). Almighty Allah is coming to US by the means of His Prophets that means Almighty Allah connected to His Prophets who connected with us. In return we should connect with Prophets (NOT Awliyah because as Quran states or as u explained above) because Prophets connected to Almighty Allah. Its like perpendicular line one way go and only same way return.
Almighty Allah --> Prophets --> We
We --> Prophets --> Almighty Allah
Or
Almighty Allah <--> Prophets <--> We
But when u add 'wasila' as 'follow awliya' (other then Prophet) u in fact creating parallel line by linking "you" to 'awliya' and inadvertently removing 'Prophet' then to Almighty Allah.
Almighty Allah --> (Prophets) / awliya --> We
We --> awliya --> Almighty Allah (where is Prophets ?)
Now tell me where mentioned in Quran and/or hadith that one remove Prophets and follow awliyah? Explain it plz :)
Let's get clear first here. I'll answer ur second post once we'r clear here.
Re: Waseela Se Mangna
Peace wais88,
(Check the coloured words in ur post). Almighty Allah is coming to US by the means of His Prophets that means Almighty Allah connected to His Prophets who connected with us. In return we should connect with Prophets (NOT Awliyah because as Quran states or as u explained above) because Prophets connected to Almighty Allah. Its like perpendicular line one way go and only same way return.
Almighty Allah --> Prophets --> We We --> Prophets --> Almighty Allah
Or
Almighty Allah <--> Prophets <--> We
But when u add 'wasila' as 'follow awliya' (other then Prophet) u in fact creating parallel line by linking "you" to 'awliya' and inadvertently removing 'Prophet' then to Almighty Allah.
Almighty Allah --> (Prophets) / awliya --> We We --> awliya --> Almighty Allah (where is Prophets ?)
Now tell me where mentioned in Quran and/or hadith that one remove Prophets and follow awliyah? Explain it plz :)
Let's get clear first here. I'll answer ur second post once we'r clear here.
well i see your knowledge and understanding about islam is very narrow(no offence).
firstly you need to know what are awliya?
awliya are pride of their prophets.
they are the spiritual successors of the prophet s.a.w.
awliya is the pride of prophet just like a prophet is the pride of his lord.
the karamats of awliya are the steps of the maujzaat of their prophet, just like maujzaat of a prophet are the kudrat of their creator.
i had quoted a quranic verse starting with "behold to the friends of allah" mostly it must be from surah 10.
this says clearly that its allah's will and allah's permission that we should seek for the path of awliyas.
so i will like to make a little correction here
allah ««»» muhammed s.a.w ««»» awliya ««»» us.
this is perfect.
and nobody is trying to take out prophet s.a.w nobody can and whoever even thinks of this enemy of allah. my prophet s.a.w is everything to me and allah knows that i can give up my life with a smile in his s.a.w.
awliya are the wasila, prophet s.a.w is the best of wasila.
so next time when you beg to allah seek for the wasila, and remember a very important fact, whoever dislikes an awliya actually wages war against allah(i can prove it with references)...
its a very happy news that finally you have accepted that wasila is totally permisable...
and if you stay connected with a sense of learning insha allah your head too will bow down to awliya.
Re: Waseela Se Mangna
and im waiting for your more replies
Re: Waseela Se Mangna
Peace Wais88,
Plz keep in mind that i’m not against any Scholars, Awliya, Sufi’a etc., and I do respect them all. I’m trying to draw ur attention towards that Almighty Allah ordered us to follow His Prophets and Prophet ordered us to follow my Sunnah so that Almighty Allah loves us. The Sunnah is the wasilah that connect us to Prophet and then to Almighty Allah. If I say there is a another way of wasilah except Sunnah then that is Quran. Let me repeat again that Prophet said in last sermon about only two things (1) The Book Al Quran and (2) His Sunnah. If we hold these two then we won’t get astray. Why it is so hard for u to understand?
U earlier said Almighty Allah connected to us through His Prophet means Prophet was wasilah. In return we also should connect through Prophet to Almighty Allah and again here wasilah is Prophet’s Sunnah. One and only same way, the way of our Prophet but why u wanna add ‘awliya’ in between this?.
Re: Waseela Se Mangna
add awliya? who dares to remove awliya from anywhere? till the day of judgement and even after it awliyas hold a very special position.
well talking about aylaan at gadheer e khumm (thanks for mentioning it).
he s.a.w said us, mai tumhare liye do ahem chizw chode jaa raha hu. agar tum in do ko thaame rakhoge toh kabhi gumraah na hoge, ek toh hai allah ki kitaab (quran). aur meri ahle-e-bait (descendents).
this is the correct defination of that declaration(try reading hadees in arabic). hamare tumhare aaqa s.a.w saaf saaf keh gaye meri aal ka daaman thame rakho tum gumrah na hoge (from his(s.a.w) blessed aal many awliyas emerged including gaus paak). this is a clear indication from our prophet s.a.w towards awliyas, who is so ignorant now to remove the chapter of awliyas from the books of our sinful life?
and you saying that i’m inserting awliyas?
from the hadees that you quoted (you had modified it) it is proved that if we dont behold on aal e nabi we will go astray. (i can refer the same from quran too)
now you can choose for yourself.
Re: Waseela Se Mangna
Peace wais88,
Nowhere I read it is written as 'Ahle-e-bait (descendents)'. I read 'Sunnah' all the time.
Re: Waseela Se Mangna
Peace wais88,
Nowhere I read it is written as 'Ahle-e-bait (descendents)'. I read 'Sunnah' all the time.
either you have read books edited by some satanic, illeterate people or you have been taught wrongly by the people who dont know even the abc of islam.
ahle bait is the word used, and ahle bait does follow and teach sunnah.
Re: Waseela Se Mangna
Peace wais88,
Could u plz quote any reference (if available). :)
Re: Waseela Se Mangna
Peace wais88,
Could u plz quote any reference (if available). :)
what's left to quote.
do one little thing go find books of hadees written by Sahih Bukhari,
Sahih Muslim, Thirmidhi, Sunan Ibn
Majah, Sunan Nasai, Sunan Abu Dawood. take any of these(6 most eminent books) read with your own eyes and if you find yourself right then i've never known anything about islam and surely i've made a place for myself in hell. and you find yourself wrong(and you will) then you are the one going astray along with the people who have mislead you.
Re: Waseela Se Mangna
Peace wais88,
I only wants u to quote the last sermon of our beloved Prophet where it is written " my Ahle-e-bait ( my descendents)" and I said earlier to u that I read written “Sunnah” only. 
Re: Waseela Se Mangna
In Sahih Muslim it is reported from Zayd ibn Arqam that he said: The Messenger of God, upon whom and
whose household be blessing, stood up in order to deliver a sermon to us by a pool known as Khumm, between Mecca and
Medina. He praised and lauded God (high exalted be He), and then he preached and called our attention. Thereafter he said: Now
then, lo! O people! I am just a mortal, so I may shortly answer ‘at Your service’ to my Lord’s call. I am leaving with you two
weighty and precious things. The first is the Book of God wherein is guidance and light. So cling to the Book of God and hold fast
thereto. He continued to incite to the Book of God and made us to desire it. Then he said: And my Ahl al-Bayt (the Folk of my
House). Be mindful of my Ahl al-Bayt before God!. Be mindful of my Ahl al-Bayt before God!
Abu al-Nadr related to us. He said: Muhammad, that is Ibn Talhah, related to us Lord’s from al-A‘mash, from
‘Atiyyah al-‘Awfi, from Abu Sa‘id al-Khudri, from the Prophet, upon whom and whose household be blessing, who said: I shall
shortly answer ‘at Your service’ to (my Lord’s) call. I am leaving with you the two weighty and precious things: The Book of God
(exalted and majestic be He) and my near kindred. The Book of God is a cord stretched from the heaven to the earth, and (hold
fast to) my near kindred, the Folk of my House, too. (God), the Subtle, the All-aware, has informed me that they will never be
separated until they join me at the pond (on the Day of Judgement). Now take care how you all will leave them behind !
these are the two most reliable narrations i could find on internet.
these hadees is stated by around 35 sahih hadees and is undeniable.
Sahih Muslim, vol.4, p. 1873, Hadith 2408
Musnad Ahmad , Hadith 10707.
Sahih Muslim, vol. 4, p. 1883, Hadith 2424
Al-Hakim al-Naysaburi, al-Mustadrak ‘ala al-Sahihayn vo.3, p.146
Sahih al-Tirmidhi, vol.5, p. 351, Hadith 3105 also vol.5, p.663, Hadith 3787
Fakhr al-Din ibn Muhammad al-Turayhi, Majma‘ al-Bahrayn vol.5, p.330.
Majma‘ al-Bahrayn , vol.5, p.331.
i guess this are enough :)
Re: Waseela Se Mangna
Peace wais88,
Lets talk about first hadith. I read this hadith in Sahih Muslim where Zaid Ibn Arqm also quoted: "The second are the members of my household I remind you (of your duties) to the members of my family. He (Husain) said to Zaid: Who are the members of his household? Aren't his wives the members of his family? Thereupon he said: His wives are the members of his family (but here) the members of his family are those for whom acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. And he said: Who are they? Thereupon he said: 'Ali and the offspring of 'Ali, 'Aqil and the offspring of 'Aqil and the offspring of Ja'far and the offspring of 'Abbas. Husain said: These are those for whom the acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. Zaid said: Yes.
Now could u plz explain about those duties? and plz tell me where is 'wasila' mentioned in this hadith?
Re: Waseela Se Mangna
assalamalaikum.
yes you are right..waseela is not mentioned.
but this beautiful hadees of our very beautiful prophet s.a.w shows the status of his s.a.w progeny.
his s.a.w progeny is the most blessed one, many prophets' sons too are prophets, but our prophet's s.a.w sons passed away at a very tender age..but his progeny continued through his s.a.w daughter bibi fatima r.a. right?
and since his s.a.w progeny did continue it turned out to be better than any other progeny. from his s.a.w progeny came the king of awliya shaikh abdul khader jilani, khwaja moinuddin chisti, khwaja nizamuddin awliya and many more awliyas who came as a blessing to believers, they changed lives of people, they taught us what nobody had taught us before, they have helped us today and they will on the day of judgement, even their mureeds have been blessed in a very extraordinary way.
since awliya have such high status why not take their waseela?
when we take waseela of any wali it is indirectly a wasila of prophet s.a.w because they are the chosen ones from his s.a.w ummah. every single wali is pride of his prophet.. i need you to understand what i'm saying.
since waseela is allowed it is totally allowed, there is no restriction in using waseela of anybody.
if i'm wrong anywhere then please point it out.
na fiqre mai, na gam e jaam tere masto ko
teri nigah se banta hai kaam ya khwaja
Re: Waseela Se Mangna
& Peace wais88,
Every time there is something new in ur post Could u plz tell me how those pplz were choosen one and how one know he/she’s choosen one?
and r u trying to say that who have a higher status then his/her waseela is permissible? 
I really trying to understand but i’m afraid it doesn’t make any sense to me. So would u like to add something in this thread regarding ‘permissible of waseelah’?