Re: Was Pakistan meant to be secular like India?
Or nearly 6 times?
Re: Was Pakistan meant to be secular like India?
yes but i was talking about andhra,rayalseema and telangana division of andhra pradesh...
but still good percentage of muslims in telangana
As far as rayal seema is concerned they are like tamilian muslims they are good at telugu more than urdu....their urdu sounds funny..i have few friends from cuddapah
Re: Was Pakistan meant to be secular like India?
Let us do some simple arithmetic assuming ninjas. Numbers are accurate.
Muslims 20% of popilulation 4% of govt jobs ignorinf Christians for simplicity sake (3% of population) andy assume Hindus 77% of population and have 94% of govt jobs.
Here is ratio of % govt jobs : % population
Muslims 4/20 = 0.2 Hindus 94/77= 1.25 Are you implyinh Hindus are 1.25 /.2 timesxas educated as Muslims
II
again in hindus not everyone is educated
particular sections dominates particular field, like the case of IIT
majority of them are from my home state,especially last time 60 ranks in top 100 went from my home state with a population of 9 crore out of 120 crore population
Re: Was Pakistan meant to be secular like India?
yes but i was talking about andhra,rayalseema and telangana division of andhra pradesh...
but still good percentcage of muslims in telangana As far as rayal seema is concerned they are like tamilian muslims they are good at telugu more than urdu....their urdu sounds funny..i have few friends from cuddapah
division will never happen bro,this telangana leaders need to blackmail bussiness men and get their piece of pie,wait for TDP to come to power
telangana region has 98 percentage of hindus,may be ur friend was tamil muslim settled in that region,i have friend from kurnool who doesn't know single word in tamil
andhra muslim speaks a dialect called dakhni
Re: Was Pakistan meant to be secular like India?
Why we talk about IIts and IIMs just check out percentage of muslim in any average institute...
and these are statistic of credit alloted to muslims is not this a bias
But Muslims’ share in loan accounts is much lower than their population share
and their share in loan amounts outstanding is even worse. (Pg. 125).
On an average, the amount outstanding (indicator of loans sanctioned) per
account for Muslims is about half that for other minorities and only one-third of ‘Others’. (Pg. 126).
RBI’s efforts to extend banking and credit facilities under the Prime Minister’s
15-point programme has mainly benefited other minorities, marginalizing Muslims. (Pg. 128).
The record of specialized lending institutions such as the Small Industries
Development Bank of India (SIDBI) and the National Bank for Agricultural and Rural Development
(NABARD) is worse than that of the Scheduled Commercial Banks. (Pgs. 134-135).
During the six years period 2000-01 to 2005-06, of the total amount of Rs. 26,593
crores disbursed by SIDBI, Muslims received a paltry Rs. 124 crores (less than 0.5 %). (Pg. 134).
NABARD has done no better. During the two years 2004-05, 2005-06, Muslims
received only 3.2% of the total production credit and 3.9% of investment credit. (Pg. 135).
Some banks have identified a number of Muslim concentration areas as ‘negative
geographical zones’ where bank credit and other facilities are not easily provided. (Pg. 136).
Steps must be taken “to specifically direct credit to Muslims, create awareness
of various credit schemes and bring transparency in reporting of information”. (Pg. 137).
P.S. number of pages mentioned here are of sachar committee report
Re: Was Pakistan meant to be secular like India?
^^
dude i have no idea on this banking stuff
so no comment,but i still stick to governmnt job........
it's better we leave it
Re: Was Pakistan meant to be secular like India?
II again in hindus not everyone is educated particular sections dominates particular field, like the case of IIT majority of them are from my home state,especially last time 60 ranks in top 100 went from my home state with a population of 9 crore out of 120 crore population
I think you missed the big picture. One can find unique instances where a segment of society has an outsized representation in certain areas - your States outsized representation in top 100 of IIT ranking being an example. But when it is shown to you that Muslims are under- represented in govt jobs by a factor of 6 - one needs to stepback and concede that bias may play a huge role in this huge disparity.
Knowing you from your post as a logical person I have no doubt you will come to this logical conclusion eventually.
Re: Was Pakistan meant to be secular like India?
Also the data Ninjas provided on discrimination in loan grants is easily verifiable - with the nternets and all. Best to acknowledge and recognize a problem - then there will be a solution.
Re: Was Pakistan meant to be secular like India?
Ninja and Southie, have the 2 of you personally faced job discrimination in India due to your religion? If so can you please tell what happened. I may be wrong, but my assumption is that Southie is from Kerala. That has a massive muslim and christian population, how is the situation there? Many minority groups --Christians, Parsees, Sikhs, Jains seem to be quite successful. Atleast, I haven't heard of discrimination against them as against Muslims. What could be the reason? I acknowledge, that there are some hindus who don't trust muslims. The converse may also be true. I remember that during a polio vaccination program, in some slums the muslims rejected vaccination because their mullah had told them that it would make the children sterile which was the Govt's plan against muslims. I don't remember such issues in the Hindu majority slums of my state. So I can say both education and trust is lacking .So how do you propose to change that? What steps do you think the 2 communities should take to build bridges and understand each other? What should Hindus do? What should the muslims do? I believe that once people understand each other better, then problems like discrimination etc will come down though it may not completely disappear. People usually hate and fear what they don't understand. Looking forward to hear your solutions.
Re: Was Pakistan meant to be secular like India?
Excellent post. You have laid out a nice blue print. I did not grow up in the south and have never worked in India.
Re: Was Pakistan meant to be secular like India?
Do Muslims get big posts in Indian army?
One more thing, Muslims can be president in India, but Hindus and even Qadyanis can't in Islamic Republic of Pakistan :)
Lt Gen Syed Ata Hasnain, is present commander of SriNagar based XV corps. Air Cheif Marshal Idris Hasan Latif, Airchief from 1981-83.
And seen lot of bias against muslim in government job as you seen exploitation of power in private jobs by muslims only statistic can talk more than words just check out percentage of muslims in government jobs in post independence India.. Dont say muslims are uneducated thats why can not get job....
What is the representation of syeds with in muslim groups, How different is position of sheikhs from Baniyas, and how different is economical condition of hindu barber is different from muslim barber??
But when 20% muslims are limited to only 4% jobs you can sense bias if you not biased yourself....
Iyengar and all these are castes or they are religions different than hinduism....? do define you are logic you are using example of caste while I am talking about religious bias..as far as sikhs are concerned they are follower of an indian religion and some hindus call them sword of hinduism....
these example of different caste does not deny bias against muslims.... Just show me muslim police man with beard in maharashtra while sikhs can have beard and Kirpan anywhere... Though in Andhra muslim police men have beard...
Have not you heard famous case when muslim student was kicked out for sporting a beard and I remember a case when policeman was suspended for sporting beard
I am sure pandits are overrepresented every where, being less than 7% they might be represnting 30% of the posts:). Sikh present very valid issue, the terrorists, the secessionists, gaddar, the killer of Indira Gandhi etc, but what made my community to revert and claim back their status, what did sikh do right and muslim couldn't in post 91 years when every one saw development?
I dont think muslim want a secular state ...as a muslim i want to see a real islamic state with fair treatment for minorities as prescribed by shariah..... As far as Quaid is concerned he was indeed a great man....before partition he was suffering from Tuberculosis but he successfully hided it from public otherwise as per british account british would have delayed transfer of power to natives
I don't know about theological states and their success but I have seen and it amazes me the expats who grew because of true secularism of west propgating hindu rashtra and muslim states etc. What is wrong with US/UK type of secularism if we compare it with Muslim state?
But the bias (if any) as pointed says that India is also not a secular state as portrayed.
India is struggling with every concept that it envisaged at its inception,that include socialism, democracy, secularism etc. How Sikhs are over represented in army but muslim aren't, how Uttrakhand is overrepresented in Army but Madhya Pradesh is not? are the question that we don't have answers about.
Re: Was Pakistan meant to be secular like India?
But babloos if you really believe what you are saying then i offer you to secure a job for muslim in an educational institute run by a hindu after paying bribe....
No muslim can not get a job there..
P.S. I am not saying every hindu is muslim hater ...I have lot of very good hindu friends and i trust some of them more than my muslim friends...i have lived my life among hindus instead of living in muslim ghetto and i have complete idea what I am talking about
A few years back I was studying in a Masters course in some foreign country, and I met an Indian muslim from Gujarat and he was saying the same things that the first preference in government jobs is for higher castes and muslims come last in line. And that the residential areas are segregated in a way that a low caste person and a muslim cannot live in higher caste people's areas. Is that true?
Re: Was Pakistan meant to be secular like India?
ninja will confirm that, but this reminds me controversy created by famous actress and probably member of the indian parliament Shabana Azmi when she couldn't buy a flat in Mumbai just because of being Muslim.
Re: Was Pakistan meant to be secular like India?
ninja will confirm that, but this reminds me controversy created by famous actress and probably member of the indian parliament Shabana Azmi when she couldn't buy a flat in Mumbai just because of being Muslim.
Even no hindu can rent a flat in Parsee colony, strange but true, Shabana Azmi, daughter of Kaifi Azmi, wife of Javed Akhtar is denied flat seems quite strange, rules for poor and rich are different.
Re: Was Pakistan meant to be secular like India?
A few years back I was studying in a Masters course in some foreign country, and I met an Indian muslim from Gujarat and he was saying the same things that the first preference in government jobs is for higher castes and muslims come last in line. And that the residential areas are segregated in a way that a low caste person and a muslim cannot live in higher caste people's areas. Is that true?
Ex chancellor Vastanvi had to resign when he said muslim should now move on like other communities, he had to resign despite being known progressive.
Shudras have 19% quota in govt, OBC has 27%, Forward caste like mine fights in general seats to get govt job
Yadav being 22 % are less than 1% in job
Muslim being 15% are nearly 4 percent
Brahimins being 7% nearly 30 percent even though they fight in general merit.
Re: Was Pakistan meant to be secular like India?
In a big Gujarat city a relative gives tuition. .a Muslim family came to her house for their child's tuition. Later a bunch of neighborhood men came to her house and said - we respect t you. But you cant let Mohammadens into your house.
Discrimination against Muslims in terms of buying a flat in mumbai happens. This should not be trivializdd by making comparison of hundus not being able to buy flat in parses community.I don't know shabsna azmi specific case.
Re: Was Pakistan meant to be secular like India?
^^ Neither my intention is to trivialize the issue of discrimination, if Hindu is discriminated it is non issue,see no one gives a damn if hindu gets a flat or not. If reverse of the above occurs that would be non issue too. If Muslim is discriminated it is bigger issue in vote bank politics, and vote bank politics is reality. Bulk of Sikh minority schools misappropriate funds but as soon as some one complainS, the first thing that minorities shout is "we are being targeted because we are minority"
Re: Was Pakistan meant to be secular like India?
Your post just trivialized the instutionalized discrimination against Muslims. It is sad when intelligent and reasonable folks deny the existence of institutional discrimination - and cannot or will not distinguish it from random individual level discriminationm
Re: Was Pakistan meant to be secular like India?
Me wants a secular Pakistan.
Re: Was Pakistan meant to be secular like India?
Hazaron Khwahishen aisi ke her khwahish pe dum nikle :hinna: