Hi everyone, I am new here and could use some advice.
i recently turned 24, finished college 2 years ago, have a full time job and am generally a very responsible adult.
i have been having a lot of trouble with my parents though. They do not want me to do anything outside of the house. Once I come home from work on Friday, I am not allowed to go anywhere. My parents and I fight about it every weekend. I am not a partier, In fact I am quite boring. I want to go to yoga or the gym but nope, there is always an excuse. “It’s hot out”, “you worked hard all week, you’re tired” My parents are worriers, my mom is convinced I will be victim of a hate crime (we live in NYC)
The fight came to a head this weekend. My mom was like you think we infringe on your independence and you resent our love, if you want to move out you should. The thing is I do want to move out but not like this. I don’t want them to be sad. I’ll be in the city, just not in the office. I just want to be able to go to yoga when I want, and for them to not be so sad if I do that or move out.
So I guess I could use some advice on moving out or changing things as they currently are.
First you didn't tell us if you are a girl or a guy...because that would make a huge difference in terms of moving out and living by yourself...secondly..if you are a girl..I would simply say don't move out as the reasons you have given are not big enough..if you are a guy and think you are a macho man since you work full time and can pay the bills..I say go ahead and try it out..see what's it's like to be on your own and cook your own food and do your own laundry and I think you will last 1 month..I have several friends who thought they were "Men" and basically decided to desert their parents, and came squeaking back after realizing what's it's like to pay the bills, cook, clean, and do everything else on their own. Two cases I know, the guys married vs their parent's wishes and moved out, only to come back with the wife after 2 months. The fathers didn't want them back, but the mothers convinced them. Parents were gracious enough to take them back even though they didn't think twice about abandoning their parents. As for your situation, try to take a friend with you whom your parents like or trust. OH, I just noticed, you want to go to yoga..means you must be a girl..since if you are a Paki guy who wants to go to Yoga..then your parents don't have to worry about finding you a bride..you will find your own male bride..lol.. am I off topic or what?
My situation was very similar to you when I was living at home. I moved out as soon as I graduated college to a different city. My parents freaked out. My dad flat out told me that I'd come back home within 6 months. My mom gave me the typical desi emotional blackmail drama. None of that stopped me. In the beginning my mom used to try to guilt me into moving back home. It didn't work. After a few months, she finally settled down and started accepting it. I called/visited them often. That was YEARS ago. Now looking back, it was the best decision I made. It improved my relationship with my parents drastically. 99% of our fights/arguments went away.
You don't have to go to a different city but I see nothing wrong with a 24-year-old college graduate with a full-time job moving somewhere close. That way you can have your own life (heck go to Yoga every-single-day if you want lol)....and be close enough to visit your parents often. Move out and try it on your own for 6 months-1 year. If you change your mind and decide moving out isn't what you expected it to be.........you can always move back home.
That's all cool but you are forgetting that we are Pakistanis/Muslims. The model you described will work fine for everyone else but not us. When we hit our 20s and our parents start getting old, the roles start to reverse a little. The parents (even if you don't let you feel it or say it to you) want to be start taken care of. They want you to ask them if they are O.K. They want to you to be there, and they want to see you as you symbolize their life's work. Also it's our duty to serve them and also this is a huge opportunity to earn Jannah. Of course the American way is to give the parents the middle finger as soon as you feel like you can be on your own and "visit" as often as you can. I will tell you, if most Paki parents have too much ghairat to ask you for anything even if they need it, especially if you have moved out when you know they are going to need you the most. How can we serve them then? I know everyone's situation is unique, but our goal should not be to abandon our parents as soon as we feel like we are able to, but it should be time to payback ( we can never really payback)/ Why can't people move out at 16 when you wanted that freedom probably more than now? Because you knew you couldn't survive, and now that you know you can, its c ya later. I know your situation may be different and only you know about it, this is just a general thing I am talking about.
^ I’m not quite sure about your parents but my parents…even now…happen to be very healthy. They’re around 60, and perfectly capable of living on their own financially and physically. They don’t “need” me or anyone else to live their life. If and when the times comes where they actually need help…my siblings and I will be there for them.
If you think an adult son/daughter moving out is giving the “middle finger” to the parents or it means that the parents are being abandoned…then that’s your opinion. Plenty of Pakistani, Muslim sons move out as adults…whether it’s for college, work, or after marriage. In fact, you yourself advised OP to move out and “try it” if OP is a guy with the ASSUMPTION that OP won’t make it on his/her own (an assumption my own father made years ago about me too).
Oh and almost all Pakistani Muslim girls move out after marriage. So why is ok for Pakistani Musilm girls to abandon their parents and given them the “middle finger” in those situations? A Pakistani Muslim girl shouldn’t move out if she feels she’s ready to live on her own b/c that equals abandoning her parents…but its perfectly ok when she feels ready for marriage? Oh and before you bring out sons taking care of parents…plenty of families out there (including my own) do not have sons.
The model I described works for people of all races/religions. It has nothing to do with abandoning our parents or not helping them if they need it.
And please let’s not be dramatic. There’s no comparison between a 16 year old teenager who hasn’t even finished puberty and a 24 year old adult who is done with college and has a full-time job.
Would you think back that your parents are getting old and sick and that they have no one of their own who can take care of them. How can you leave your parents? How can you be so selfish? Its our duty to take care of our parents in their old age as they took care of us when we couldn't even take care of ourselves. People are quick to forget the sacrifices others have made for them. Go ahead live the life you want, but when you're old and your kids leave you and you're sitting alone in your house then ask youself that is how your parents must've felt when you moved out.
My parents are perfectly healthy alhamdulillah, however, I know If i told them I wanted to move out, my father will not say no. I know he doesn’t want me to, but he has worked too hard in his life and has too much ghairat (This probably goes for most of our fathers) to ask anyone for anything. He is not going to beg me or ask me to stay even though I myself can asses that I am needed in the house and my presence is a cause of comfort for them. How much freedom did my father enjoy in the last 30+ years raising me and my siblings? Also although they may be healthy today, I can only assume that sooner or later they are going to be become more and more dependent and I can’t be sure I will be able to just “come back” when that time comes. Knowing my father, he won’t ask for nothing. As for girls getting married and moving out of the house…it’s very very simple sister…a married daughter living with her husband is the cause of a good night’s sleep for parents..a single daughter living by herself is the cause of sleepless nights..both cases the daughter is not there physically, but still has an effect on the parents’ quality of life. I know I won’t be able to take care of my parents via a phone call or an occasional visit when they need me. I have to be in the house for those nights when one of them is feeling ill..i have to be there to massage them when their body hurts..I have to be there to take them to the bathroom..i have to be there to ask them what they need…yes I will have to ask them cause they won’t tell me otherwise…I would have to beg them to let me serve them and if they let me I will be blessed..
What's you're referring to is more than just sleepless nights for parents. You're saying that parents actually NEED their children to live in the same household. You're saying that adult children have an obligation to stay home and not "abandon" their parents just b/c they're adults and capable of living separately. You believe that parents will never ask for help if/when they need it, and an adult will not be able to determine if the parents need help if they live separately..........thus its necessary for the adult to continue living the same house to ensure that the parents have a good quality of life. Am I misunderstanding any of the above points?
I know I won't be able to take care of my parents via a phone call or an occasional visit when they need me. I have to be in the house for those nights when one of them is feeling ill..i have to be there to massage them when their body hurts..I have to be there to take them to the bathroom..i have to be there to ask them what they need.....
And what about women? What about your wife's parents (or future wife)? How should a married woman make sure she can do these things for her parents? Especially in cases where there is no son in the picture? Who will take care of her parents whey they are ill? In fact, how will a married woman even find out her parents her ill UNLESS the parents share that news with her (since she's living in a separate house? Who will massage her parents body when they're in pain or help them go to the bathroom?
snip that umbilical cord before it becomes a noose and chokes you more. and buy your parents yoga passes to the same studio and help them find their centers to keep calm, stay healthy, live long, etc.
snip that umbilical cord before it becomes a noose and chokes you more. and buy your parents yoga passes to the same studio and help them find their centers to keep calm, stay healthy, live long, etc.
Are you encouraging her to connect to her chakras?
no, i’m saying she should move out even if her parents might be upset for a bit, but remember to behave like a grown up with them and not be a baby when the emo blackmail comes.
I think the "this just isn't done" argument is not a valid one, so those of you basing your advice solely on this, just to tell the OP that she should suck it up or she is a bad child is not fair or wise. Also the argument "you have two X chromosomes; therefore you can't" is not helpful.
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." ~Ralph Waldo Emerson
Yes, culturally it is hard for a child to leave the home before marriage, especially for a girl. But it is done and done well in a lot of situations. Yes it's hard. Yes there are moments of doubts, maybe even moments of hurt feelings, but you cannot just be afraid to try something new all your life simply because you fear upsetting a mediocre status quo.
Since when does making your own decisions and having some independence for a grown adult = abandoning you parents, whether they are ailing or not? Where did the OP say she wanted to shirk her responsibilities toward her parents? Where did she suggest that she would "give them her finger" and say, "see ya!"
OP, some questions for you:
1. Did you go away for college? Have you had any opportunity to live alone?
2. Do you really want to move away or are you more frustrated by their restrictive behavior and constant worrying? If that changed, would you be happy at home?
3. Can you manage the expenses of living on your own. NYC is remarkably expensive. Would you be ok with living with roommates?
What's you're referring to is more than just sleepless nights for parents. You're saying that parents actually NEED their children to live in the same household*( No we are not children anymore, remember which is why some of us want to move out in the first place so yes the parents need their grown adults to be around and live in the same household whether it belongs to them or their children)* You're saying that adult children have an obligation to stay home and not "abandon" their parents just b/c they're adults and capable of living separately*( yes that is precisely what I am saying. It's time to pay back now as Allah has given you health and youth, so use it to serve your parents). **You believe that parents will never ask for help if/when they need it, and an adult will not be able to determine if the parents need help if they live separately..........thus its necessary for the adult to continue living the same house to ensure that the parents have a good quality of life. Am I misunderstanding any of the above points? (* Yes that is what I am saying. If you live in a separate part of town or separate city, you will not have intimate knowledge of your parents' needs/problems..if you think that's not true, then lets start sending our kids to different cities and assume that we will have intimate knowledge of their needs as well..tell people we are taking real good care of our kids by sending them to different cities.. since we know that the eldery become more and more similar to children as they age (Alzheimer's anyone) and their emotional/psychological needs also become similar. **
And what about women? What about your wife's parents (or future wife)? How should a married woman make sure she can do these things for her parents? Especially in cases where there is no son in the picture? Who will take care of her parents whey they are ill? In fact, how will a married woman even find out her parents her ill UNLESS the parents share that news with her (since she's living in a separate house? Who will massage her parents body when they're in pain or help them go to the bathroom?
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*All good points but you are kind of contradicting yourself by admitting that the daughter won't be able to take good care as she will be in a different house. I was speaking as a son who has an obligation to serve his parents. Daughters don't have the same level of obligation, even though they are supposed to serve parents as well but are not expected to in the same way as sons due to the nature of their situation as you describe above. * So yes, if you know you are a source of comfort for your parents, and you know that they are going to need you more and more and decide to move out, you are basically giving them the finger and saying c ya you are old and I am young and now you need me and I don't need you and you guys are telling the OP to leave because of Yoga.....man you guys have real depth.
Ummm…no. I’m saying that according to what YOU wrote, daughter won’t be able to take good care of her parents if she’s in a different house.
So that’s it? That why it’s perfectly ok for women to abandon their parents and leave the household? But not men?
And let me get this straight. You advised OP to move out if OP is a guy. You wrote OP should stay home if OP is a girl. Then you went on and on about how it’s considered abandonement and “giving the middle finger” to parents if a adult moved out of their parents house. And now you’re staying that sons need to stay home but daughter can leave b/c the level of obligation is less for daughters? YET if OP is a girl..she should stay home (or if a guy, try living in his own)? But I’m the one contradicting myself?
So going back to my original question…what about women and marriage? Is it ok for a woman to get married and move out if she knows that she is a source of comfort to her parents and that they’re going to need her more and more? Is giving parents the middle finger acceptable in this situation?
Here is where the contradiction is not. I told the original OP to move out sarcastically, and like “move out and see what happens” and also gave the OP examples of people who have tried and have failed. It was said more in a sense of challenge than advice to move out…sarcasm radar out on a break? For a woman, this is indeed not an easy situation, and like I said before it’s a valid point. So to simplify, one has to look at their obligations and fulfill them first and some obligations are situation-dependent. So for example, in the scenario you describe, the first question that needs to be answered is whether or not it is one 56M,of the girls’ obligation to get married. If it is then that obligation has to be fulfilled fist before the other (taking care of parents, since she is not obliged to live with them for her whole life Islamically and her right to get married takes precedent over her staying with her parents to take care of them.) In fact, if the girl fears that not getting married will cause her fitna then she is obligated to get married. Additionally, there is no comparison between a girl moving out on her own so she can live it up, and a girl being respectfully married off to her husband. The first scenario is definitely a middle finger kind of scenario and the second, as I described before is more often than not a source of comfort and honor for the parents, in addition to to marriage being more of an obligation than staying with parents for a girl in many cases. One of the ways to tackle this situation is to have a pre-nup understanding that you will not be moving out of town away from parents after marriage and your husband to-be will help out to the best of his ability. Again as a daughter you are not obliged, and therefore not falling short of your obligations if you move out. If a son does, that the finger situation we refered to before.
^ Just b/c the men you know were not able to live on their own and take care of themselves…cooking/laundry are 2 specific examples you gave…that doesn’t mean that other men out there can’t do it. My husband and BIL managed to live on their own for quite a few years. Both did it while working full-time…both know how to cook, clean, dishes, grocery shopping etc. And these aren’t the only 2 men I’ve come across in my life who managed to live alone and take care of themselves. Heck I find it sad that a adult male would move back in with his parents b/c he needs his mother/father to cook/clean and do everything else for him.
The bottom line here is your basic argument that adult children need to stay home and moving out equals to “giving the middle finger” and “abandonement”. Its you stating that adult children can not take care of their parents at all UNLESS they live in the same house. It’s a belief that I clearly do not agree with. And the fact that you also have an expectation/belief that its perfectly ok for women to “abandon” their parents…but not for a son is ridiculous.
But then again I guess all this is great since you’re a guy. Of course you, being a man, MUST live in the same house in order to care for your parents. But your wife (or future wife) should be perfectly ok with leaving her parents home b/c she doesn’t have the same obligation…she shouldn’t be worried about taking care of her parents when they’re ill, giving them a massage, or helping them with daily living etc.
We’re just going around in circles. Let’s just agree to disagree and move on.
Where was this kind of thinking when so many of our fathers traveled to unknown lands halfway across the world with often vague promises of education and employment? That too at a time when phonecalls and letters were still rare. I'm sure there were fears and doubt, but there was also pride in your child having the knowledge, skills, and personality to step out into the world and achieve success in new places and new ways -- to make a life and home for himself.
I think the "this just isn't done" argument is not a valid one, so those of you basing your advice solely on this, just to tell the OP that she should suck it up or she is a bad child is not fair or wise. Also the argument "you have two X chromosomes; therefore you can't" is not helpful.
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." ~Ralph Waldo Emerson
Yes, culturally it is hard for a child to leave the home before marriage, especially for a girl. But it is done and done well in a lot of situations. Yes it's hard. Yes there are moments of doubts, maybe even moments of hurt feelings, but you cannot just be afraid to try something new all your life simply because you fear upsetting a mediocre status quo.
Since when does making your own decisions and having some independence for a grown adult = abandoning you parents, whether they are ailing or not? Where did the OP say she wanted to shirk her responsibilities toward her parents? Where did she suggest that she would "give them her finger" and say, "see ya!"
OP, some questions for you:
1. Did you go away for college? Have you had any opportunity to live alone?
2. Do you really want to move away or are you more frustrated by their restrictive behavior and constant worrying? If that changed, would you be happy at home?
3. Can you manage the expenses of living on your own. NYC is remarkably expensive. Would you be ok with living with roommates?
I did not go away to college. I stayed with them, and studied abroad for a short semester. That was my extent of living away from them.
I think I am more frustrated than anything. I like being home. I like seeing my parents daily but I cannot for the life of me enjoy being told I can't go to yoga. I am 24 years old, I can decide if I want to go to yoga
I would need to get a roommate, not just for expenses but my parents always think people should try to live with other people if possible for safety reasons. However, I can afford it. Even if I did it alone I could afford it.
I am just tired of being expected to act like an adult with adult responsibilities but not be treated like an adult at the same time. You don't think I am a child when I work 14 hour days but watch out if I want to decide when to go to yoga. It's ridonculous
Would you think back that your parents are getting old and sick and that they have no one of their own who can take care of them. How can you leave your parents? How can you be so selfish? Its our duty to take care of our parents in their old age as they took care of us when we couldn't even take care of ourselves. People are quick to forget the sacrifices others have made for them. Go ahead live the life you want, but when you're old and your kids leave you and you're sitting alone in your house then ask youself that is how your parents must've felt when you moved out.
I would not be abandoning my parents. I would be less than an hour away. I also would not stop seeing them. I am the person who would probably be home most days anyway. I am not wanting to move out because I don't love my parents anymore, but because I don't want to have stupid fights. At what point is it crazy to tell a grown a$$ woman she can't go to yoga or an event.
But I guess the real thing is my parents would feel the way you do. They would feel abandoned and I don't want to be the cause of that.
Oh and before you bring out sons taking care of parents…plenty of families out there (including my own) do not have sons.
