Re: Wake Up Pakistan! Where are we heading?
LOL, I think seeing media figures getting flocked in public and having continuous martial law made it very clear during Zia's rule of what he was. It's funny that you are trying to morph Musharraf into Zia. Thanks for the comic relief mirage. :)
Musharraf might remembered what had happened to Zia-ul-haq
Re: Wake Up Pakistan! Where are we heading?
Musharraf is not going to be removed no matter who wins the elections and no matter who becomes PM. All these opposition folks who talk ill of musharraf are going to side with him immediately as soon as they get into office and sing his praises. I'm telling you, the bitter truth is that Pakistani government right now is listening to the US and following our government's orders to keep Musharraf in place. There's been talk of threatening impeachment. It'll only happen when the US is ready to take out Musharraf. And I think they're thinking of bringing Kayani in his place. Zardari or Mr. Tind or whoever gets the PM seat is just going to be a face for democracy and nothing more.
I think there has been rigging in this election, and its been from the US side of things - otherwise PPP would never have won this elecion, because I seriously don't think anyone is desperate enough to vote for the Zardaris.
Re: Wake Up Pakistan! Where are we heading?
Are you serious, or was this an ill-fated attempt at humor? :halo:
You SERIOUSLY think that the strong base of Sindh (especially rural Sindh) for the PPP would just evaporate? You seriously think that the sympathy vote for the PPP after Benazir’s death was not going to occur? You seriously think the party that has shown a track record for popular support throughout Pakistan was going to crawl over and die? It’s laughable that you think Gen. Kiyani is going to replace Musharraf. You think Nawaz Sharif and Zardari are not going to want to assert their own power and take revenge?
Subhan Allah, kya pyaari soch hay aap ki. Dil khush ho gaya! We don’t need Umer Sharif for comedy, we’ve got it right here. 
Re: Wake Up Pakistan! Where are we heading?
Where did I ever say such things? No no, kiddo.
Sindh will nearly always vote for PPP, the poor buggers don’t have a chance since the Bhutto’s own nearly everyone in the province outside the major cities. But that population doesn’t make up the majority of Pakistan - usually whoever wins Punjab wins the country. Not that PPP can’t do it - they’ve done it in the past, but seriously, how much crack are you smoking to vote for PPP when Benny is no longer leading it and her husband and 19 year old son are in charge of it?
Everyone knew the sympathy vote would occur, hence the postponing of the elections. But the TV channels did an even better job of making sure that sympathy was raised - nearly everyone was talking about Benny after she died like she was some farishta going as far as to label her a “Shaheed”, a title that jack-arses in Islam typically shouldn’t be getting.
And of course they’re not going to crawl over and die. But you see, that’s where your thinking is wrong. You see Pakistan’s election as some internal matter that has no effect on the outside world, and forget that Pakistan is 9 inches from being attacked by America, and you also forget that war is spilling over into its borders now from Afghanistan. Depending on what moves Iran makes in the coming months to few years, war might spread even further into central Pakistan and east Pakistan (Sindh and Punjab). Extremism is growing and its also growing inside Pakistan, and the West knows it. Not only that, but religious fervor, in reaction to the “War on Terror” is increasing because muslims in the East are perceiving the war as a War on Islam. If this doesn’t end up being the biggest clash since WWII within the coming decade, then by gosh, give me a cracker and call me Polly.
Having the right political party with a leader that is dead against terrorism and the rising levels of extremism in the country is an absolute must. So, no PPP is not winning of its own golden record of impeccable excellence, or because of a broad supporter base in Sindh or even because people feel sorry for the lame excuse of a leader that Benazir was and would have been, but because they are, of all the parties, most secular and most against the extremists movements growing out of the West FATA area and spilling over into NWFP and Balochistan. PPP may have Zardari, who is a complete flaming idiot, but everyone knows he is not going to aide any extremist movement, because he likes his devilish corrupt ways, thanks very much. Benny’s kids are very westernized, and again, the eldest nearing politicking age is not going to switch over any time soon. And they have a couple of anti-shariat loudmouths like Sherry Rahman who would make sure to prioritize cutting off any religous extremism movements among the women.
That’s how the US is looking at it. And that’s why these guys are gaining seats.
What Americans don’t know is how inept these people are…and how little in reality they’re really going to do for Pakistan and to save it from extremism. They’ll be too busy filling their pockets. And the same hatred you’re seeing now for PML-Q, I’d be darned if the public doesn’t start spitting on PPP within the next year.
Re: Wake Up Pakistan! Where are we heading?
First of all, no need for you to educate me on the finer points of geopolitics, thank you. :) It's clear that America and India's hand is there in Swat and with Baitullah Mehsud to cause instability, as well as those BLA thugs who keep popping up.
But this is where you are overplaying the situation; of course the PPP are going to be America's puppets in this situation. But I fail to see America somehow rigging these elections in favor of the PPP. What do you have to say about PML-N? At least according to the results we see so far, they are leading in Punjab and neck-and-neck with the PPP in the National Assembly. Wouldn't Washington want a clearer PPP mandate, if they were to rig? Had the PML-N protested they would be dismissed as sore losers, and PPP could work with Musharraf for the American agenda (if your insinuation about him being an American agent are true). Makes no sense to let the PML-N in on the spoils if you're going to rig.
I agree that the people will see that ONCE AGAIN they were duped by the idiots who are our political opportunists, and we will be back at square one with people disgusted at the Government.
As for PPP suppporters smoking crack, the problem is the whole qaum is high on something when it comes to elections. They get swept away with rhetoric and folks like 10% and Ganja, the dubious masters that they are, cash in. You hear people saying "we just want Musharraf gone!" and they are too blinded by their hatred of Musharraf to worry about anything.
You give our voters too much credit. They don't sit and think through the issues. They just say oh, PML-Q in power, and aata is nowhere to be found and bombs are blowing up. Lets get rid of them and I'm sure things will get better. We operate seemingly on politics of exclusion, and the political powers at be love it!
Re: Wake Up Pakistan! Where are we heading?
Forgot to mention, I would love to see your proof or evidence of rigging by the Americans. Go on, let's see it.
Aww, you don't have it? tsk tsk, kitni burri baat hay. By the way, why are you so bent upon yelling and screaming about supposed rigging when there is no evidence of it? Or have you reached some higher level of intelligence that all of this has been implanted in your mind. Mesmerizing. :)
Re: Wake Up Pakistan! Where are we heading?
No one is going to get any evidence of rigging because the American politicians and reps are there "overseeing" the rigging to make sure there is no rigging, apparently, thereby are in the best position to hide any rigging that is done.
Its not clear to me yet all the details, but read American newspapers and you'll see our politicians are quacking away about meetings with Pakistani officials to see who would be a good "team player", so to speak. They met with Kayani, and the news that American politicians think he might be the person to strike a deal with in case Musharraf keeps losing control over Pakistan is everywhere in the American papers. New York Times was reporting on these matters back in November and December when the emergency situation came up. You can take a look at the older editions of NYT if you want, and you'll see it.
The motive is there, the fact that PPP is gaining is a hint. You make a good point of "why not PML-Q" and the fact is I've been quite puzzled why Musharraf would call back Nawaz. The only thing that does make sense is that Nawaz is breaking the vote in Punjab. If Punjab's vote is divided between the Chaudries and Nawaz, as what may have been intended, then that leaves PPP a better ground to gain voters. I don't know if this plan will work out, because clearly the Chaudries have lost dismally. Therefore PML-N might gain a substantial number of seats, and I don't know that Nawaz was a prime candidate for being an American puppet, like Benazir was. But with Benazir's murder, its very possible that the US is scrambling for PML-N to get support.
The fact that the Chaudries did terrible in their own hometowns also raises some suspicion of rigging, but rigging in favor of those who were accusing the government for rigging against THEM. Who knows if that wasn't some topi drama and they knew they would have an upper hand in the votes anyway?
These are all theories, ASN, and as much as your debating skills have much improved since a million years ago, please do realize that personal attacks like "Awww, tsk tsk, kitni burri baat hay" is not very becoming of a good debator. I don't know what you expect to accomplish by your attempts at intimidation. People will agree with you on some points like I do with your opinions on Musharraf, and they will disagree on other points. No need to get all Sultan Rahi.
Re: Wake Up Pakistan! Where are we heading?
shalwar main nekar, PCG is making valid points. I don’t know about your memory but up until an year ago, no one was even paying any attention to bibi in washington! Of course, the conversion of the corrupt bibi into a “farishta shaheed” has helped in the sympathy votes.
Sometimes I just wonder that pakistanis don’t deserve the land that is called Pakistan! 
Zobia, answer to what I wrote in the post instead of going into some other tandem.. 
Re: Wake Up Pakistan! Where are we heading?
How about you go back and check your quote again, because i didn’t say anything about ‘babar’…
u sounded like an a** because it was someone else who said it…
lol clearly u dono who ur talkin to and about what…
Re: Wake Up Pakistan! Where are we heading?
Ah, so now we will look to American newspapers to find out about Pakistan. Splendid! Especially since I thought it was clear that America is in the midst of a media-based propaganda war against Pakistan, with all the talk about Pakistan being a failed state, and the Economist and Newsweek labeling it as the most dangerous place on Earth. The funny thing with the observers is, had they not been there, surely it was rigged because the Government wanted to hide it. If the observers are there, then the observers themselves are now rigging the vote. I guess all the political parties must be in on the rigging, because otherwise they would be crying foul at this grand scheme. Oh, unless you attest that you are more well versed in the situation than the folks on the ground whose parliament seats are on the line?
Interesting how now you are changing gears and diving into an even deeper and wilder conspiracy theory, that Nawaz was called back by his bitter foe Musharraf, just to help Benazir, knowing very well that this meant depriving the Musharraf-friendly PML-Q. Where do you get these ideas, seriously I'm not trying to tease you here, honestly. But you are going from one wild theory to another. Why can't you just accept things at face value, are you that alien to doing so?
You REALLY think the establishment would want to rig against itself to DISPROVE a rig against the opposition? Sorry, but that really does deserve a prize for creativity! :)
Let me help you with another theory: maybe, just maybe, this is a huge plan by the cricket underworld! You see, maybe all the terrorist attacks were done by Musharraf. Now he has stopped them during election day to show the ICC that Pakistan is a safe country and convince Australia to tour. He will then take part in matchfixing (another type of rigging) and pocket millions. You see, Pakistan will be huge underdogs, but really, they have thrown the World Cup and Twenty20 tournament just to set themselves up for this tour, so that the odds are so high that Musharraf can win big and split the money among the PML-Q lot to thank them for their chamcha-geeri of the past several years. Poor Bob Woolmer caught on and was taken care of before he blew the whistle on this grand scheme.
... now do you see how far-fetched your ever-evolving ideas have become?
Ok, we'll leave poor Sultan Rahi out of it. How about, "navva aaya ay, sohneya?" ;)
Re: Wake Up Pakistan! Where are we heading?
rigged.
Re: Wake Up Pakistan! Where are we heading?
How about you go back and check your quote again, because i didn't say anything about 'babar'....
u sounded like an a** because it was someone else who said it...
lol clearly u dono who ur talkin to and about what...
Keep lolling on yourself... :)
Re: Wake Up Pakistan! Where are we heading?
Ah, so now we will look to American newspapers to find out about Pakistan. Splendid! Especially since I thought it was clear that America is in the midst of a media-based propaganda war against Pakistan, with all the talk about Pakistan being a failed state, and the Economist and Newsweek labeling it as the most dangerous place on Earth. The funny thing with the observers is, had they not been there, surely it was rigged because the Government wanted to hide it. If the observers are there, then the observers themselves are now rigging the vote. I guess all the political parties must be in on the rigging, because otherwise they would be crying foul at this grand scheme. Oh, unless you attest that you are more well versed in the situation than the folks on the ground whose parliament seats are on the line?
Interesting how now you are changing gears and diving into an even deeper and wilder conspiracy theory, that Nawaz was called back by his bitter foe Musharraf, just to help Benazir, knowing very well that this meant depriving the Musharraf-friendly PML-Q. Where do you get these ideas, seriously I'm not trying to tease you here, honestly. But you are going from one wild theory to another. Why can't you just accept things at face value, are you that alien to doing so?
You REALLY think the establishment would want to rig against itself to DISPROVE a rig against the opposition? Sorry, but that really does deserve a prize for creativity! :)
Let me help you with another theory: maybe, just maybe, this is a huge plan by the cricket underworld! You see, maybe all the terrorist attacks were done by Musharraf. Now he has stopped them during election day to show the ICC that Pakistan is a safe country and convince Australia to tour. He will then take part in matchfixing (another type of rigging) and pocket millions. You see, Pakistan will be huge underdogs, but really, they have thrown the World Cup and Twenty20 tournament just to set themselves up for this tour, so that the odds are so high that Musharraf can win big and split the money among the PML-Q lot to thank them for their chamcha-geeri of the past several years. Poor Bob Woolmer caught on and was taken care of before he blew the whistle on this grand scheme.
... now do you see how far-fetched your ever-evolving ideas have become?
Ok, we'll leave poor Sultan Rahi out of it. How about, "navva aaya ay, sohneya?" ;)
Apart from sarcasm, what are your arguments?
Re: Wake Up Pakistan! Where are we heading?
Apart from sarcasm, what are your arguments?
That's all you could say to my whole post? Oh well, that's your choice. Enjoy your conspiracy-laden world. If you see Elvis alive in there, tell him I said hi.
Re: Wake Up Pakistan! Where are we heading?
I think I am asking you the same thing thing. I don't see any substance in your previous post apart from sarcasm. Again, if you have an actual argument to put forth, we can talk about it. Otherwise, I've stated what I've had to state, and acknowledged what good points you came up with. shrugs What more do you expect civilized people to do in a civilized discussion?
Re: Wake Up Pakistan! Where are we heading?
apparently your record is stuck on “rigging” while everyone else is busy talking about rest of the stuff, I suggest check your record :k:
Re: Wake Up Pakistan! Where are we heading?
You hear people saying "we just want Musharraf gone!" and they are too blinded by their hatred of Musharraf to worry about anything.
Interestingly enough the Lal Masjid saga has resulted in more suicide bombings, the justice who released terrorists are sitting in SC bench, thought I'd let you know.
Re: Wake Up Pakistan! Where are we heading?
Interestingly enough the Lal Masjid saga has resulted in more suicide bombings, the justice who released terrorists are sitting in SC bench, thought I'd let you know.
ironically since musharaf came, the media and judicial branch have never been this powerful.
back when taliban/wahabi were tolerated by our govts, they only attacked shia mosques and ahmedis/etc and no one cared and everyone was happy in their own little worlds. now that they are rightfully opposed, they are attacking the sunnis too..which in turn is causing anger. thats the only difference, thats all.
Re: Wake Up Pakistan! Where are we heading?
I think I am asking you the same thing thing. I don't see any substance in your previous post apart from sarcasm. Again, if you have an actual argument to put forth, we can talk about it. Otherwise, I've stated what I've had to state, and acknowledged what good points you came up with. shrugs What more do you expect civilized people to do in a civilized discussion?
You're right, we are going in circles, because you keep going into deeper conspiracy theories with absolutely no basis or evidence; it's almost as if you are trying to find some alternate truth for the sake of denying what seems clear: a free and fair election. The burden is on you to disprove that, and apart from unfounded rhetoric, you have said nothing substantive. Still waiting for that, if you can.
Re: Wake Up Pakistan! Where are we heading?
Tut tut tut....how sad.
EDIT your mail....and you have no right to declare anyone a terrorist!
First understand the word itself and then, if at all necessary, make the statement!
It doesn't augur well..at all....that one should come up with such silly thoughts...just because you can type and use the facility on some forum....so conveniently.
There is always a code of ethics and an expected sense of sanity not insanity....from those who participate in such debates.
Khush Rahein...