Re: Pakistan Court awards hand of girl aged two to 40-year-old
And this is arranged marriage how again?
Re: Pakistan Court awards hand of girl aged two to 40-year-old
M_S - this is not an arranged marriage, it was a payment. Courts do not arrange marriages, they rectify wrongs and they did this by taking a 2yr old child and paying a 40yr old with her life. Yeah, dramatic, sorry, but true. Families arrange marriages with the issue of consent being involved. There was no consent here. Don't delude yourself. That child was a commodity only, a payment.
Re: Pakistan Court awards hand of girl aged two to 40-year-old
Hmm maddy the Sindh High Court already ruled against the Council system..the solution lies in bringing dispute courts under the judicial system and regulating them..miscarraigaes of Justice occur in both systems..but a concept of basic rule of law needs to be applied..
Re: Pakistan Court awards hand of girl aged two to 40-year-old
Poor guy now has to wait until she is of age...ullu kay PaThay ki uThay bhi gi nahin tab tak...and you call this justice?
Re: Pakistan Court awards hand of girl aged two to 40-year-old
She has not been handed over. She will continue to live with her family until she reaches the age of marriage, then she will get married to a man. All that has happened is that her future husband has been decided well in advance. As long as she is not forced into doing anything, we don’t have a leg to stand on.
Frankly, I expect that she will grow up, will believe that she will bring shame on her family if she refuses to marry the guy, and do so willingly in order to protect her family.
Does this suck? Yes.
Does marrying someone to protect your family’s honour break the law of any country? No.
Re: Pakistan Court awards hand of girl aged two to 40-year-old
Consent is not an issue for the next 12 years. Consent becomes an issue when and if the marriage actually happens.
If no consent, then there is no legally valid marriage, and this would then become a situation where the state should intervene to protect her rights.
No country has laws that allow the state to determing when and if someone should get engaged. Such laws only exist for marriage.
Re: Pakistan Court awards hand of girl aged two to 40-year-old
Does this suck? yes
Are kids used as legal tender to settle legal damages? NO
Re: Pakistan Court awards hand of girl aged two to 40-year-old
The Sindh High Court can make all the rulings it wants against the council system, but wiping out council courts is impossible for the reasons I have already stated. As long as their judgements break no laws, they should be left alone for policing them would be a fruitless waste of the state’s resources.
Any council courts that break the law should have the full weight of the law brought against them, on the other hand.
Re: Pakistan Court awards hand of girl aged two to 40-year-old
Can it effectively be prevented? No.
Banning this would simply lead to village councils forming technical work arounds. As much as I would like to, I cannot imagine a single measure that would prevent cases like this reoccuring.
Where people willingly adhere to judgements of informal courts to protect their honour, you cannot force them to suddenly change behaviour.
I would love for this little girl to grow up to be 14 and declare that she does not want to marry the old guy and seek the protection of the state.
Unfortunately, the reality is that she will be brought up to think that she will disgrace her family through not marrying the guy, and so will go ahead and do it anyway for their sake.
Re: Pakistan Court awards hand of girl aged two to 40-year-old
^ You actually believe in what you editted out of your previous reply, don'tcha? Come on, put it back.
Re: Pakistan Court awards hand of girl aged two to 40-year-old
Ok, I see what you are saying and it does suck.
And yes, she was handed over legally not physically (like Saddam to Iraq) by a court that should never had the right to determine her future in that way.
Re: Pakistan Court awards hand of girl aged two to 40-year-old
Forget all the technicalities of her consenting or not when she is 14, with court and society's pressure and the 52 year old man at that time asking for his right, she probably will. But why is she in the picture in the first place. Why did the court have to punish her for act of another. Punish that uncle and the woman who had the affair, why do injustice in the name of justice.
Re: Pakistan Court awards hand of girl aged two to 40-year-old
^ The genius' rationale in that case is that that's how local courts work.
Re: Pakistan Court awards hand of girl aged two to 40-year-old
^^ What Surya said!!
Re: Pakistan Court awards hand of girl aged two to 40-year-old
Which reply? I edited a lot of these shortly after writing them, I’m having to type a lot of them very quickly.
Tell me what I wrote and I’ll account for it.
Re: Pakistan Court awards hand of girl aged two to 40-year-old
Mad_scientist:
Lets talk on two different levels.
1 The technicalities of the situation.
2 Do you think what happened is fair.
I think you did a pretty good job explaining the technicalities and why the village elders didn't break any laws. Good job.
Now, the more important and fundamental question, do you, or any educated person condones what happened in this case. I think the simple answer should be a resounding no. And this is on various fronts.
a. What pains me is that all this is happening in the heartland of Pakistan, not some remore far-fetched FATA area. Government of Pakistan and courts should have full authority in these cases, and no one should be coerced to agree to absurd rulings by village elders.
b. On a moral level it is wrong to decide who a 2-year girl should marry in 12 years time. No one has that right to decide on behalf of little Rabia, except herself when she grows up, and her parents. And that decision should be free from such court-ordered compulsions.
c. From a religious stand-point as well, to penalize a child for the crime of her uncle goes against the very essence of Islam, where our Prophet (Peace be upon him) clearly said that no son should be punished for the crimes of his father. Each person should be on their own. If her uncle committed a crime, he should be punished for that. Not his 2-year old niece.
My only consolation is, and its not much, that 12 years down the road, the guy who is supposed to marry this girl, may already be dead and so this whole fiasco will not end in an even worse situation. But my real wish is for the law of Pakistan to take charge of this situation and severely reprimand such idiotic village elders and punish those who commit the crime, and not their innocent relatives.
Re: Pakistan Court awards hand of girl aged two to 40-year-old
Read PD Yes No reply. You’ll remember.
Re: Pakistan Court awards hand of girl aged two to 40-year-old
Because the people who did it are cowards and want to make someone else bear the consequences.
If I ruled the land where this incident happened, I would have the girl left out of it. I would have the man and woman who committed adultery put on trial, and if guilt was proven, I would have them hung in public.
Adultery is a crime that carried the hadd punishment. People who commit it have no right to life, they are scum.
Re: Pakistan Court awards hand of girl aged two to 40-year-old
MS, have you been eyeballing some Preschoolers you would like to hook up with in 16 years? You sly dog.
Oh and it's clear by this case that this system DOES NOT work within the framework of the law of a civilised state.
Sickie.
Re: Pakistan Court awards hand of girl aged two to 40-year-old
The system does work within the framework of the law of a civilised state, because it breaks no laws and is dependent entirely on voluntary adherence to judgements.
If you don’t want to adhere to a judgement by such a court, you can walk away from it. The consequence isnot legal,but rather merely the dishonouring of your family.
Like I said, this court could easily function in the USA too. As long as the girl publically claimed when she reached marriageable age that she marrying willingly, nothing could be done, even if she was bethroed at a young age.