Re: Venting/Dissing of spouse and inlaws
I dont know abt others male, but my man surely do with everyone (friends, relatives, neighbours). thats y we have issues from day 1.
by discussing these things or saying negative abt ur wife n in-laws, degrades man himself.
Re: Venting/Dissing of spouse and inlaws
^ kyun diwana jee, chup chup khoye khoye?
:@:
lol.
I realized I was wasting my thoughts on someone You-Know-Who. ;)
Re: Venting/Dissing of spouse and inlaws
No. Knights job is done. Good night.
Re: Venting/Dissing of spouse and inlaws
That's exactly what I thought. Didn't expect much more. Like, at all.
Rest easy good sir, you saved guppans from a pakistani man.
Re: Venting/Dissing of spouse and inlaws
I've got so much to say about this topic, but will refrain from it.
There are some battles, that are just not worth winning.
Re: Venting/Dissing of spouse and inlaws
Very weak response(excuse?) sehrysh. Expected more. But lately the sense that was quite prolific amongst some people has vanished.
Consider the portion in bold from your first paragraph. Why do you feel the need to defend this? Does it really matter what they consider it? Does their view of what they're doing change what they are actually doing? If I were to whine at length about how someone is treating and then say "oh but i dont mean to whine", does it mean I'm not whining? If your answer is yes, you may disregard the rest of my post as you and I have nothing further to discuss, as you clearly have an innate need to not even try to understand the perspective of another, which in fact also renders your own argument void.
You seem to want women to* think *the way men do because in your opinion a man's way of thinking is the right way. That's not going to happen, simply because women are socialized differently. And its not merely semantics, its reality - what seems like whining, venting and dissing to you isn't seen as the same for a woman. Women reach out to other women for a sense of understanding and empathy. I'm truly not trying to rationalize "bad behaviour" rather I'm trying to give insight on another way of thinking and perceiving. To qualify my comment, not every woman thinks this way - but many do.
You claim that gheebat is not excusable yet you go on to make an excuse for it. And can we please not pretend its anything more than it really is? Please? Let's get rid of this false sense of righteousness you ladies seem to metabolise and use as a source of energy that fuels your crazy. Women will present a problem, analyse the problem and should (heaven forbid) the Life1 tribunal (consisting mainly of bored aunties and feminist crazies with debilitating personalities which makes it impossible for them to have any success in any personal relationship) conclude that it was the man in the situation was at fault, well then all men will be brought to the question.
Ladies if youre having issues with your man please dont insult other men. This group contains your father, me, my father and about half of the population of the world. All the crap you're going to fling please fling it on your own man.
Insulting all men is not the rule on this board and its unfair to paint all female posters as man-haters.
us Finally you claim that the cause for these "disses" is when people don't like how the other presented in the telling of a tale. First of all, this diss isn't the issue. ***The issue is when you take the op's story as fact and proceed to diss someone in the story. What you ladies seldom remember is that all you see is one point of view. Based on that, so much has been insulted. Secondly what you ladies fail to realise fail to do is empathise with all players in the story.
**Not true. In numerous threads, the first comment made is that the reader is only given one perspective and any advice they offer is qualified with the caveat that advice is based on the singular view or the reader will ask for additional details in attempt to get a balanced view of the situation. Maybe I missed a lot of Life1 threads recently - but where has it become the rule in LIfe1 threads that the absentee party is insulted? I know in that last thread that happened, but I don't recall that all women posters went after and insulted the male equation is the rest of the Life1 threads - so what's the basis for the generalization? Or is it just easier to paint or generalize about all female posters? ** Also you guys seem to loath your own culture and religion and blame it at times for the disparity between men and women. This is also very frustrating. ***
I don't recall expressing contempt for my own religion or culture and your comment implies that most of the female posters - is this yet another generalization on your part?
If you need prime examples just look below.
As far as the examples you posted - why would you imply that they or those posts are representative of the female posters on GS? The same way Candy's post about Punjabi-Pakistani men was a gross generalization - you've gone down the same path.
My point consistently has been about the fallibility of people and the possible reasons for that fallibility and why empathy is necessary. What's unfortunate is the expectation of perfection in thought, deed and word of another. We want others to think our way and react the way we do and that's not possible. We live in a world with shades of grey and unless you walk in another's shoes you will never know what they go through and what has shaped their perceptions and feelings. Rightly or wrongly - they think the way they do and react the way they do and that's where the empathy is necessary.
I'll use your example - the classic MIL/DIL example. Your scenario has the wife whine and complain to her husband about how horrid the MIL is and you make it seem like the wife's sole aim is to take her husband and child away from her MIL and to cut ties with the MIL - she's a typical bad wife, who's made a perfect mother, father, son equation miserable. In your scenario it seems like the MIL is an angel and the wife is the devil - but isn't it possible that in some cases, the MIL has made her DIL's life unpleasant and uncomfortable and that the DIL is unhappy because of her treatment at the hands of the MIL or other in-laws.
What should the wife do in this case? Shut up and not "whine" or complain or explain her unhappiness to her husband because he's come home from a long tiring day at work and because he will never acknowledge that his family could ever have wronged his wife? What is the wife's recourse in this type of scenario?
^ Point being - most people's reality is somewhere in between the extremes you and I have described.
Something I learned in a management course which I thought was quite enlightening vis-a-vis relationship theory was that intention does not equal perception. And therein lies the source of most conflict. I mean one thing and you understand me to mean something else. How do you solve for the intention versus perception gap? I've no idea, other than open and honest and clear communication. But that assumes that everyone is comfortable with that level of open communication.
I don't expect to "convince" you to see things my way - but I hope if nothing else, it at least will give you pause and maybe consider another perspective. That's one thing that I have taken from this board - the multiplicity of perspectives and that just because I see things one way doesn't mean others see the world through the same lens.
Re: Venting/Dissing of spouse and inlaws
You seem to want women to* think the way men do because in your opinion a man's way of thinking is the right way. That's not going to happen, simply because women are socialized differently. And its not merely semantics, its reality - what seems like whining, venting and dissing to you isn't seen as the same for a woman. Women reach out to other women for a sense of understanding and empathy. I'm truly not trying to rationalize "bad behaviour" rather I'm trying to give insight on another way of thinking and perceiving. To qualify my comment, not every woman thinks this way - but many do. * If my post led you to believe I'd like women to think the way men, it is a misunderstanding. I understand men and women are completely different creatures. I am not against venting. I vent too. But I vent to people I know, typically in small groups. Also, if I know someone will have a view opposing to the one I'd like to vent about, I wouldn't go to them; it's common sense. However, when one comes and vents in a public forum, you have to be careful. You can freely state whatever you wish, but it goes both ways. So be prepared to take heat. If they do want to come here for advice they would do best to make their posts as objective as possible. If it is an emotional post, thats perfectly fine too! Just be prepared for emotional response that may or may not come and dont whine if it does. I can understand the need for a support system, I really can. But dont you want to help them? Or would you rather just coddle them?
*Insulting all men is not the rule on this board and its unfair to paint all female posters as man-haters. * Another misunderstanding. My aim was not at all ladies on here. God knows some ladies here are nothing short of queens (no pun intended). Whenever I say "you ladies" or just "ladies", it's just a shoe. Control I cannot who it fits. I think this response applies to the remainder in red.
As far as the examples you posted - why would you imply that they or those posts are representative of the female posters on GS? The same way Candy's post about Punjabi-Pakistani men was a gross generalization - you've gone down the same path.
My point consistently has been about the fallibility of people and the possible reasons for that fallibility and why empathy is necessary. What's unfortunate is the expectation of perfection in thought, deed and word of another. We want others to think our way and react the way we do and that's not possible. We live in a world with shades of grey and unless you walk in another's shoes you will never know what they go through and what has shaped their perceptions and feelings. Rightly or wrongly - they think the way they do and react the way they do and that's where the empathy is necessary.
I'll use your example - the classic MIL/DIL example. Your scenario has the wife whine and complain to her husband about how horrid the MIL is and you make it seem like the wife's sole aim is to take her husband and child away from her MIL and to cut ties with the MIL - she's a typical bad wife, who's made a perfect mother, father, son equation miserable. In your scenario it seems like the MIL is an angel and the wife is the devil - but isn't it possible that in some cases, the MIL has made her DIL's life unpleasant and uncomfortable and that the DIL is unhappy because of her treatment at the hands of the MIL or other in-laws.
What should the wife do in this case? Shut up and not "whine" or complain or explain her unhappiness to her husband because he's come home from a long tiring day at work and because he will never acknowledge that his family could ever have wronged his wife? What is the wife's recourse in this type of scenario?
^ Point being - most people's reality is somewhere in between the extremes you and I have described.
Something I learned in a management course which I thought was quite enlightening vis-a-vis relationship theory was that intention does not equal perception. And therein lies the source of most conflict. I mean one thing and you understand me to mean something else. How do you solve for the intention versus perception gap? I've no idea, other than open and honest and clear communication. But that assumes that everyone is comfortable with that level of open communication.
I don't expect to "convince" you to see things my way - but I hope if nothing else, it at least will give you pause and maybe consider another perspective. That's one thing that I have taken from this board - the multiplicity of perspectives and that just because I see things one way doesn't mean others see the world through the same lens.
Upon closer inspection you'll notice that I don't imply that these posts are representative of GS posters. Quite the opposite. Before I present the scenario, I define it as being a stereotypical scenario. Read more below.
I accept human fallibility as much as you. It's human nature to make errors. There's nothing wrong with that. And yup there are many different shades of grey and I accept that too. However, there is a difference between making an error and not accepting you made the error. And yes I know, right and wrong are subjective. But you cannot deny the existence of universal truths. Universal truths are constant. It is a plain and simple fact, that what is true and right is true and right for all. Men and women alike. And it's the one's that don't acknowledge that, that piss me off. And this is where empathy comes in. We need empathy to understand what someone is going through and whether what they are feeling is justified. Agree with you there.
The scenario presented to you was a stereotyped one. It's aim is to juxtapose the other crap you see on here. Paki men are dumb, in laws and grandchildren, that I allegedly raped PCG, etc.
Sehrysh the wife has full right to complain on here. No one is stopping her. But if her story makes it seem like she is in the wrong, she will be made aware of it. And vice versa.
Empathy can be used to close the gap between perception and intention.
I am not closed minded Sehrysh. I am open to convincing. People will tell you that when I am proved wrong I acknowledge it. And if I behaved inappropriately during my ignorance or in anger, I will apologise with an assurance of no repeats. However, I will hold true to the universal truths. There are greys in life. But there are black and white scenarios too.
Re: Venting/Dissing of spouse and inlaws
Yeah, it can be backbiting, and there is definitely a fine line. And yes, women backbite more than men, so by default they would 'vent' more than men too.
I agree with PCG - we do it to compare notes and problem solve. I find it really helpful. But I don't want to cross the line into backbiting :(
A few issues.
You listen to only one (typically exaggerated) side of story and give advice based on that; often leading to aggravation of the problem.
Most of these real or imaginary problems could be solved talking (TALKING) to the concerned people, not outsiders to the 'problem'
Comparing notes is a BAD idea if they are notes full of complaints. I personally know a few women who have terrible husbands/in-laws but they present a very rosy picture of their household while interacting with 'outsiders' and a few who have great spouses and in-laws but love to complain out of habit. When they compare notes, things get worse.
Re: Venting/Dissing of spouse and inlaws
A few issues.
You listen to only one (typically exaggerated) side of story and give advice based on that; often leading to aggravation of the problem.
Most of these real or imaginary problems could be solved talking (TALKING) to the concerned people, not outsiders to the 'problem'
Comparing notes is a BAD idea if they are notes full of complaints. I personally know a few women who have terrible husbands/in-laws but they present a very rosy picture of their household while interacting with 'outsiders' and a few who have great spouses and in-laws but love to complain out of habit. When they compare notes, things get worse.
Men. Don't. Talk.
I always encourage my husband to talk to me, but he generally doesn't like to talk about problems. So no, in reality it doesn't work like that. Women are a lot more talkative and empathetic. Also, what I meant by comparisons was talking about things two people might similarly be experiencing. Like for example, my sister and I the other day were discussing what we give our husbands for lunch at work. It's a comparison, but not in the bad sense - more of an idea-sharing, problem-solving way.
Re: Venting/Dissing of spouse and inlaws
PCG i've treated everyone on here with respect till they've given me reasons not to.
I treat people the way they treat people.
If you want to be treated well, show the same to others.
App log pyaar ki zabaan walay log nahi ho.
Bold part is not true. I've had no interaction with you whatsoever, and you apparently 'pity' my home life? Reading your comments are irritating as you seem like a bigot. And ironically, after saying all you've said, you have the audacity to imply that you are amongst 'pyaar ki zabaan walay log'? Ha!
Re: Venting/Dissing of spouse and inlaws
EVERY SINGLE WOMAN ON HERE reckons here that the money they make is only for them. Hubby etc shouldnt see a single penny of that. there is no concept of contribution.
your argument is invalid.
Lol. Islamically, it's not. The money a woman makes is entirely hers to do with whatever she wishes. The money a man makes is not only for him, but for his wife and children also. You didn't know that? Lol.
I said weep not pity. and thats if you govern your house based on these opinions
I know that about islam. Thats why I was so confident in my statement. The statement still stands.
Re: Venting/Dissing of spouse and inlaws
yes Islamically speaking Cough Cough your argument is invalid. And i know someone who once wrote if women want to think this way(not contributing and spending 8 hours at work outside of house) then they should be ok with their husbands bringing in second wife just because first wife isn’t contributing. If a husband has to bring a second wife based on that, that itself speaks volumes about his character and his sense of responsibility.
But what i have observed is that women here are fine with this monetary contribution arrangement. And if some woman raises her voice about the islamic right of hers, it is women on this forum who jump at her first. This thread was a good example of it:
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/life-and-relationships/636448-finances.html
And yes i am not implying that women should not contribute at all, but it is surprising when women are not only contributing financially but also carrying out household responsibilities single-handedly. ever heard of the tandem metaphor used for marriage.
Whilst some women here like to behave as fairy baby dolls, some of them are doing more than they should be and perhaps they don’t even know and realize that. And they are brimming with advice for others. lol
Yes woman of this age is exceptionally good at venting and screaming out for her rights, but hardly really know much about her real rights.
Oh yes yes i can see the flak-firing squad jumping into its position.
posting pic is not justifiable( though also curious to see those fairy wings attached to you that let you spout the stuff you do)
But how come the highlighted text doesn’t apply you on. Any given day you can effortlessly win anti desi trolling contest with panache. And if you call your opinions just opinions then you need to get some help asap.
Like I said I understand the Islamic right. Not sure what youre trying to refute.
LOL The photo was in retaliation. Unlike the info shared by pcg, which was told in private domains, the photo was found by googling pyaricgudia.
Like I said I had my reasons. I didnt say it was right, but should the occasion call for it, I'd do it again ;)
Re: Venting/Dissing of spouse and inlaws
Don't know what you guys are on about and your reasons for it but being a bully can never be justified.
jus'sayin!
Venting/Dissing of spouse and inlaws
:hinna:
If wisdom’s ways you wisely seek,
Five things observe with care,
To whom you speak,
Of whom you speak,
And how, and when, and where.
Re: Venting/Dissing of spouse and inlaws
That's exactly what I thought. Didn't expect much more. Like, at all.
Rest easy good sir, you saved guppans from a pakistani man.
Well rested. Thank you. Top of the morning to you.
Cracks me up re the saving guppans part. Happy to do it.
I do like ur posts though for the most part. And actually expect much more.
Re: Venting/Dissing of spouse and inlaws
Men. Don't. Talk.
I always encourage my husband to talk to me, but he generally doesn't like to talk about problems.....
Men. Don't. Talk about imaginary problems.
Re: Venting/Dissing of spouse and inlaws
Lol. Islamically, it's not. The money a woman makes is entirely hers to do with whatever she wishes......
Typical. When it comes to rights, you'd like the rights a western society gives to a woman. When it comes to responsibilities, Islam comes in. You'd like rights given by western values and Islam to a woman but wouldn't want to take responsibilities from either.
My (western) flatmate splits all expenses (including laundry, snacks, and even movie tickets :P ) with her wife 50:50 but then contributes to household chores too. In return she gets all the rights a western society gives her and is not expected to cook regularly, for example. If she wants the desi kind of rights, then she'll have to bear desi kind of responsibilities too.
Re: Venting/Dissing of spouse and inlaws
So, there seem to be three type of responses.
1) Its not desi women, but all women. Its the different wiring of women that makes them do this more than men.
2) Desi men don't like to air their dirty laundry out in the open.
3) Desi men are the scum of the earth, and make desi womens life super miserable, thats why desi women do this way more......WHICH CONTRADICTS THE POINT 1, THAT ALL WOMEN DO IT.
Is there any other line of thinking? That I might have missed?