hareem, even when you say ‘overall’ literacy among US Paks is better than UK Paks.
as khan15 noted, overall Pak-brits are towards the low end of educational achievement, it is quite the opposite in US.
I know its a wikipedia article but look at the sourced graphs in there, general statements may get me labelled as prejudiced so lets just look at facts which speak louder than anything, and you can clearly see that which group is pulling everyone down.
and uni admissions show that which groups seem to be achieving more.
Thanks for the info but I was expecting a similar graph in the 2nd link about US…in the 2nd link it just gives some names of successful Pakistani American individuals.
I was actually talking about literacy rate of UK and US (not the scores of pupils in examination) which is almost of a same rate in both places.(unfortunately)
lowest educational achievers in the uk are lower working class white british students, and the bangladeshi community. indian girls top the list. pakistanis achieve high, good and mediocre results
the uk pakistanis approach and attitude towards learning is different from other pakistani groups including their own first cousins in pakistan. i have seen first hand how much importance the real pakistanis place on 'papers' (exams/coursework.) in the uk its an individual stress, in pakistan its a familial concern. the difference is startling because they are first cousins of each other and share the same background
lowest educational achievers in the uk are lower working class white british students, and the bangladeshi community. indian girls top the list. *pakistanis achieve high, good and mediocre results
*
the uk pakistanis approach and attitude towards learning is different from other pakistani groups including their own first cousins in pakistan. i have seen first hand how much importance the real pakistanis place on 'papers' (exams/coursework.) in the uk its an individual stress, in pakistan its a familial concern. the difference is startling because they are first cousins of each other and share the same background
The truth is UK Pakistanis are near the bottom of nearly every social indicator just above Bangladeshis, of course there are some v.high achievers but far more are at the other end of the spectrum, it's ridiculous to try and make out otherwise..
Listen guys, I work for a local authority in a densely Pakistani area in the UK. They are at bottom of all the human development indicators. What surprises me is that are unhealthier then the general popluation as well!!!! Go figure.
So as things stand, unless the US Pak poulation decides to commit collective suicide, they are better then there UK cousins.
Actually, this is quite true for the University level Pakistani students.
University-level
British Pakistani pupils are 1.7% of the 18 year old’s in the country, but they make up 2.4% of the first year students at University[8]](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/#cite_note-insted.co.uk-7). Regions of predominantly non-Kashmiri settlement, such as Greater London and the South East are sources of greater university applications [8]](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/#cite_note-insted.co.uk-7). University applicants are over represented by 7.5% from Greater London and by 4.6% from the South East. Where as, they are under represented by 4.9% from West Midlands, by 4.4% from the East of England and by 4.3% from Yorkshire and Humber. Whilst from other regions, there is a slight over representation by between 0.2% to 0.6%[8]](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/#cite_note-insted.co.uk-7).** 33% of British Pakistani boys choose to continue their studies to the university level. This rate is the third highest rate in the country after Chinese and Indian boys and is higher than the rate for White British boys (23%), Black African boys (30%), Bangladeshi boys (29%), Black Caribbean boys (16%) and those falling into the other black category (20%).******SIZE=2][55]](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/#cite_note-54)
Listen guys, I work for a local authority in a densely Pakistani area in the UK. They are at bottom of all the human development indicators. What surprises me is that are unhealthier then the general popluation as well!!!! Go figure.
So as things stand, unless the US Pak poulation decides to commit collective suicide, they are better then there UK cousins.
the uk pakistanis approach and attitude towards learning is different from other pakistani groups including their own first cousins in pakistan. i have seen first hand how much importance the real pakistanis place on 'papers' (exams/coursework.) in the uk its an individual stress, in pakistan its a familial concern. the difference is startling because they are first cousins of each other and share the same background
Shard,
Once again comparing chalk with cheese. In the rural agrarian tribal parts of Pakistan, education is not as valued. As the UK popluation is orignally rural and tribal, they have the same aspiration. But even here, there are notabl exceptions, who have done extremely well. Also people of urban and semi-urban (villages near Faisalabad) backgrounds have different ethos, and have done extremely well.
^ That's just down the road from me.. it's so depressing isn't it..
The unhealthy thing doesn't surprise me one bit, look at all the uncles and aunties with diabetes, it's so common they think of it as something normal.. also Pakistani kids are more likely to be born disabled than white kids (can't remember by exactly what percentage but the statistics are available online if anyone wants to look it up) and the rates of suicide and depression amongst UK Pakistani (and Bangladeshi) women are many many times more than that of white women..
Once again comparing chalk with cheese. In the rural agrarian tribal parts of Pakistan, education is not as valued. As the UK popluation is orignally rural and tribal, they have the same aspiration. But even here, there are notabl exceptions, who have done extremely well. Also people of urban and semi-urban (villages near Faisalabad) backgrounds have different ethos, and have done extremely well.
i think its fair to call us rural but not tribal. we are rural only if you judge by background of some 30+ years ago
and not notable exceptions but every kid works so hard in pakistan, if the state/private schools could provide them with a worthy curriculam, pakistani kids (even from my area, which also happens to be where the infamous majority of uk pakistanis herald from) would be world beaters. they study hard, very hard
The truth is UK Pakistanis are near the bottom of nearly every social indicator just above Bangladeshis, of course there are some v.high achievers but far more are at the other end of the spectrum,
ok so where do you place lower working class whites? this group is often bundled in with the general white population, much to its detriment and forgotten.
the african and afro carribean communities are also below the pakistani community educational performance
it'll be interesting where the most recent european arrivals fit in.
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it's ridiculous to try and make out otherwise..
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mediocre is a not so flattering term, and not bottom of the ladder either, i think it portrays an accurate picture of where the community is as a whole
im one of many who do not currently support improvement projects aimed at the pakistani community. theres other communities which need this support more then ours. having said that, improvement is always welcome, and recent changes to the power of ofsted (educational oversight body) and league tables for schools are already having a positive impact. however, i have not seen the most recent figures. i suspect these changes will help the pakistani community more then any others, because they address the reasons behined the mediocre achievment of the past
I've been to both the UK and USA ... and I must admit, I was most impressed by the Pakistanis in UK ... the way they talk, the way they act ... They seem integrated into the British society, but haven't forgotten their desi roots
Thanks for the info but I was expecting a similar graph in the 2nd link about US....in the 2nd link it just gives some names of successful Pakistani American individuals.
I was actually talking about literacy rate of UK and US (not the scores of pupils in examination) which is almost of a same rate in both places.(unfortunately)
Thats what I found, but educational levels is one thing the social position is another.
what has shown is
1- a large number of pakistani britons are working class as it states, and a big chunk is below poverty line
2- in US majority of pakistani americans are middle to upper middle class, exception being newer unskilled immigrants in places like NYC.
I can go in and pull the specific quotes if you like.
overall literacy for all people may be lower in total US i dont know, when it comes to education levels for ppl of Pakistani background, a much higher number of pakistani americans go to college, the overwhelming majority I would say. The Pakistani Americans without college education are those who have just emigrated. In Uk it is a different issue..Pakistani Britons who have gone on to uni is a low ratio at 33%, and basically it is pulled down by certain segments within the Pakistani Briton group.
So that is the big issue in my view, the first or second generation people pursuing education. Thats where it appears the mirpuri community is lagging pretty badly even compared to the non mirpuri community in UK, let alone Pakistani American community, and since mirpuri community is such a big chunk there, unless things change and the next generation does better then we will have a much higher divide in Pakistani Britons than exists now of the educated professionals/business folks and uneducated blue collar workers or those on the dole, since per the report i shared a large chunk is unemployed as well.
dont take this as a rant against UK, I was born there, spent my childhood there and it is still my home, no other place has that place for me, but the problems of the pakistani briton group are real, they are based on background of a large chunk of early immigrants and their circumstances and choices, and the impact of that on their future generations. we cant be blind to it, even educational and social groups and agencies in UK are not blind to that.
yove grown up in a pakiless small village, and you dont even know who belongs to which background and which background is more inclined towards what.
ive grown up with the rougher elements, and believe me you are talking hogwash.
thruth is for all backgrounds - what is cool on the streets of britain is abhored by the real pakistanis be it from the potohar belt, the chachis aka fake pashtuns, punjabis and the urdu speakers
people who grew up in britain have their own culture, their parents and real pakistanis have a very different culture.