Urdu (Language)

Re: Urdu (Language)

Really?? who is stopping you from speaking your own language? If you can't speak a word of Urdu then how would you communicate to any punjabi, Sindhi or balochi? Why must you discourage and kill Urdu in order to promote your own language. I do not agree that other languages are being completely discouraged.
I have studied for 2 years in a government school in Karachi. why?
Becuz my parents wanted me to learn and adopt the culture, and not get hung up on English and urdu only, Like nowadays we see how many parents put their children into british and american schools and feel proud of it that is all BS

Mind you, if my parents wanted they could have let me go to any English school and learn NOTHING about pakistan. If you do not know about this, Sindhi and Arabic is compulsary in all government schools in Karachi and hell yea I am very glad that I had the chance to study both of these languages and pass them with A class.
If provincial languages were not taken seriously, they could never ever exist in schools today.
Urdu is and should always stay a universal language of Pakistan becuz it is a way of communication between all Pakistanis today.
But all languages must be made compulsory in all schools in their provinces. I will be very happy to see everyone in Sindh learning Sindhi beside Urdu and English in all schools including British and American schools. Same goes for NWFP for pashto, balochistsan and with balochi and Punjab with punjabi.

Re: Urdu (Language)

[quote=Stomp]
I am all for Pakistan I am a Pakistan, howeverPunjab is the most prosperous part of Pakistan, [/qoute]

Wrong.

Just to clear your head of this wrong impression.

Some Punjaabi friends may not like this. But this man needs some information.

There are great majority of patriotic punjaabis not agreeing with you and your hateful ideas and even many members of my family are punjaabi.

1- Karachi and its people fed from start and still feed whole country by giving up to 70 % revenue which the country spends on food and defence etc.
So called agriculture state has never been able to feed its own people with agriculture products. We had this discussion in at least one previous thread.

Same Karachiites (Muhaajirs)ran the country with their education, intellect and wealth to keep the country afloat during initial time (and still are )when many locals were confused of what to do or we had lost first battle in 1948. Machoism did not give country anything then.

Many woke up in the morning and found that now they are 'Pakistani' but karachiites and their ancestors gave up so much for the country. Many still do not believe they are Pakistani and what it means. They think being Pakistani means a passport/ID card and 'nationality' is important. What could be more dumb than this?
Its people like you who are hell bend on disrespecting great Karachiites.

2- Admittedly punjaabis are good fighter in Pak Army but in few Pak history majority Punjabi army lost fight in East Pakistan (Sadly). You mentioned tanks which only happened in 1965 when Lahore was attacked. When attacked close to home army really faught with heart.

Some Punjaabi even did not feel ashamed of fighting againt muslims in Brit Army or when they faught against weaker Palestinians in order to save Hussain's kingdom and earning medals. 3- What could be considered a bigger 'f@Rt ' then trying punjaabi or arabic the national language?

4- Did you read about Ranjit Singh dear.......he did abuse punjaabis-muslms. Your personal family was not touched by him so it means all other punjaabis had a great time too?

5- You acted like goodie goodie with sikhs who had chaye (tea) at your house..so what did it make you then, when other punjaabis had brutal treatment from Ranjit? Doesn't that prove you were not 'man' enough to protect women from rape and murder?

What kind of bravery are you talking about when you kicked someone from R-Pindi out? A majority muslim place.

6-If it was not Urdu, Pakistan would have been divided long time ago.
Smart move from the Quaid who knew the country people more than you can imagine.

As someone said, try even opening all Punjaabi school and you will see with your eyes.

Power of Urdu is in its acceptance of ALL words and languages and thats why its called urdu= Lashkar. Its a bond among people from different areas and of different languages.
Urdu has and rightly so changed in Pakistan and is not called Hindi.
In fact even hindus don't like to use word Urdu since it does not belong to them. We don't call it Hindi either and any suggesttion of it is false.
Hindi has different dialouges and make up of its sentence. It is rich in Sansikrat while Urdu is based on mixture of turk-persian-sansikrat etc.

you should be able to find differences in Urdu and Hindi. Anyone can tell if a person is speaking Hindi or urdu these days. (Choice of words, make up of sentences, pronounciation and gesture/mannerism)

However, religions and languages are two different things. try not to use that argument and show off another reason to be considered 'uneducated' person.

You mentioned similarity of Sikhs and muslims (hillarious analogy). By your silly analogy, Lenin, Abraham Lincoln and people like them must be pious muslims!:)

*You need to stop showing your anti-Pakistani mentality. Had no idea people are brought up to be like you coming from Pakisani family. *

Re: Urdu (Language)

Jal Pari, Urdu-Hindi is not inevitable. English or for that matter any language, e.g. Arabic or Persian, can be used as a meduim of communication in Pakistan. But because at the time of partition, the political scence was dominated by Urdu-Hindi speaking Muslims, they patronized their own language and promoted their own heroes and culture.

There is another danger in keeping Urdu-Hindi as the national language i.e. the invasion of the region by Hindustani/Indian Culture. Imposing Urdu-Hindi will be tantamount to Indianizing the region.

Urdu-Hindi is depriving native languages of their due place, attention, and importance.

Ok, if you want to retain it then let it be, along with English, a language of communication and not a national language.

Re: Urdu (Language)

This is all nonsense. The fact is Urdu is Hindi and Hindi is Urdu. The Bollywood movies are made in Hindi and they are 100% intelligible to the so-called Urdu-speakers. What does that mean?

And this is wrong that Urdu-Hindi is a lashkari language. Urdu-Hindi has an enormous ornate and decorated vocabulary suitable for use in courts (e.g. Huzoor Kia farmatain hain....) and other places like those in Luknawoo.

Re: Urdu (Language)

Moreover, dialectical variation exist in every language. The Hindi I hear on Indian channels is exactly Urdu. I have noted one exception though, that in India zero is called "shonai" and in Pakistan "sifar".

Ok, make Punjabi, Sindhi, Baluchi, Siraiki, Pashto, and Urdu-Hindi national and official languages in their respective regions and retain Urdu-Hindi, along with English, as languages of inter-ethnic or inter-provincial communication. I think this would be acceptable to all.

But who can predict future!

Re: Urdu (Language)

I will like for my kids to learn two languages; their mother language because that binds them to their culture and society and gives them a sense of identity and group-warmth and feelings; and English because that is the language of knowledge and global communication.

My kids can use English to communicate with Punjabis, Sindhis, Urdu-hindi speakers, etc. If they learn Urdu-Hindi voluntarily, that is their choice.

Re: Urdu (Language)

You are living in dream world thinking that Urdu Hindi is same. You must have heard "Urdu" on indian channels but not Hindi. It is completely different language. It is used in Indian movies now becuz it sounds better then any other south Asian language.
Most of Afghanis I know by far LOVE hindi and are all crazy about indian movies. Yea Good luck with enforcing everyone to adopt a culture and language of arabs and persia which nobody in Pakistan have ever known. 99% of the population in Pakistan is and will be much more comfortable with Indian culture not arab!
Thats what make us Pakistanis unique today becuz we are all muslims but we have not lost our identity which is SOUTH ASIANS. We are not arabs.

Re: Urdu (Language)

Urdu-Hindi is not the only South Asian language or South Asian identity marker and not all people in the region are South Asians.

Before Urdu-hindi was patronized and made the meduim of instruction by British, Persian was the prevailing language. For many people, it is the same learning Persian, Arabic, or English as Urdu-Hindi.

And that is not true. The old Hindi movies of pre-partiition era I have watched have actually Urdu. The common Hindu and Muslim masses of India use the same language as you hear on all Indian channels. Note that these channels (as well as Bollywood movies) primarily target the 400+ Hindi speakers. If Hindi were any different from Urdu how could these channels and Bollywood movies use Urdu and exclude this huge market of 400+ millions people? Even a child can understand this point.

The highly sacsikratized Hindustani you hear in news broadcasts is used only for news broadcaste on official Indian channels.

Re: Urdu (Language)

DASBZ_05
You posted after me so Are you refering to my posts or soemone else post??because i didnot bring up the issue and i said that they can be settled to any part of pakistan.So do read what i have wrote before on this topic.

LAND OF THE DINOSAURS
Thats what i have said make regional languages our national language.Who imposed urdu on ahmed faraz and patras bokhari answer that.No one can impose a language.English is the official language how many people working government in offices speak english for that matter even understand it completely.Okay if there is no state patronage for pashto why didnt the private sector intervened.just by taunting at urdu speaking you wont get anything

You people just repeat what I and some other people have said before.But you just end by having a go at urdu speaking.karachi is where mostly urdu speaking people live and it has more pakhtuns living there than any city of the world.so there can be peaceful existence.

Re: Urdu (Language)

Ok it was a british conspiracy is that what you mean??.so anyone of this forum compared dari with pashto dari with persian pashto with persian irani balochi with pakistani balochi balochi with persian gujrati with marathi tamil with telegu i think i can give you a list of languages who share many words.

I know you have researched on the differences between hindi and urdu and even watched the hindi samachar (khabarnama in urdu).do a research as to why indians made the state language of kashmir urdu and why it is one of the languages recognised in india.The hindus could have easily after partition proved just like you that urdu and hindi are same.

Re: Urdu (Language)

Giving people a stronger sense of ethnic identity by making their languages the national-official languages of their provinces could be fatal to Pakistan’s existence in the long run.

What have these ethnics got except for their languages and their rural backwardness? They wont last one minute without Pakistan.

Re: Urdu (Language)

I disagree, the more pakistan tries not promoting the respective languages the faster it will crash. This is the hard and cold truth. If you guys are opting for the kemalist theories, then I am a hundred percent against this. If you want to use urdu as a means of communication then go for it. However, don't make it out to be more than it is. Last rora I agree, other than a few words, and maybe they are written in differnt scripts hindi and urduare the same. Its like Tajiki and farsi, both dialects of persians, both identify themselves are persians (note Tajik is what the turks called persians, and they mgiht ahev soem eastern iranian blood in them). Anyways, the point is there the same. Plus, I will say it again the only reason Pakistan was suposed to be made (or so I heard) was on the basis of islam, anything is else is just pushing it, in myopinion. Depsite religion we share nothign in common. Why not accept the differences and work for ways where we can coexist in harmony. Don't take my comments the other way, but this is just how I see it.

Re: Urdu (Language)

I must ask. Why do people want to go into these matters when we should be talking on other more important issues?

So far no one has come up with the acceptable or better alternative for Urdu and I am confidant it will not be.

Urdu brought goodness to the country and even the most hateful people would accept it.

Re: Urdu (Language)

Did they? Where did you get this from? Urdu became the official language of Jammu and Kashmir state back in 1906 and it was the Hindu maharaja who made it so, because it was thought to be easier to learn for the natives than official Persian (which continued to be the court language).

In India, Urdu has faced a systematic campaign of eradication and, barring a few cities and a dwindling number of enthusiasts, it has virtually died out as a living language. Attempts to resuscitate it, as a sop to the Muslims, have also failed and in the next few decades Urdu will virtually die out, unable to face competition from English, Hindi, and the regional languages. Even in Kashmir Urdu has been completely replaced by English as the official language and the local languages (Kashmiri, Gojri, Punjabi, Ladakhi) are now being taught in schools.

Re: Urdu (Language)

False claim. I know Kashmiris who speak and love Urdu. They have nice punjaabi accent but they prefer Urdu.
Thanks but but no thanks for your propaganda!

Re: Urdu (Language)

wunderkind
You are saying that in India urdu is taken over by Hindi and English I find your observation incorrect because in urban India the young educated professionals are adopting English.It has an effect on all the languages and not on urdu alone.

overall the state of muslims in India is in decline and obviously urdu which is normally spoken by the muslims wont have that much patronage by the state as compared to other languages but still the private sector and other organistions are active in promotion of urdu.There are several newspapers and magazines published in urdu language all across India.urdu is taught at universities in the hindi speaking belt and andhra pradesh.There are other universities like aligarh and osmania still functioning in India.I think there is an urdu channel as well.

I dont think so urdu is completely replaced by hindi and english in kashmir.Will urdu be completely wiped out from the place of its origin I think it wont happen.Urdu is not like sanskrit that a brahmin will speak it only it is the language of the masses and surely not for classes.

Re: Urdu (Language)

[quote]
whats common between a sikh man and a muslim man the links that you have pasted.IS it the beard the hindu is sporting a beard too.Just by having a beard a sikh is close to muslim wah wah.
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Sorry I am not feeling well today so my typing maybe “off” a little. Anyway, if you look once more at those pictures my brother you will realizes the Hindu man is half naked, and you don’t seem to see a problem with that. Seriously, how far would a half naked man get in Punjab area? He would be shot on sight. See this is the point I am trying to make, while you Karachites have come susceptible to porn or what ever you want to call it, we Punjabis have not. Although, I am not going to deny sometimes people do like some prostitutes on the side. So your assumption is wrong my brother, you should try to look more carefully.

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You have said it before that you havent been too pakistan many times.whenever you visit Pakistan do visit karachi as well you will find it the most developed part of pakistan and it is not a biast comment the facts and figures confirm this.
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Yes, maybe this perhaps is true. Although your claim is inconsequential, look at me I am a Punjabi and I am well educated Karachites are sly they do not give an opportunity to Punjabis. Anyway you Karachites have not history. You don’t even know who you’re come on tell me what are you? You have no history my brother but us Punjabis have a history, and we want to keep our cultural heritage alive unlike you guys. Its doesn’t matter to you lot, because you have no history, but it matters to us because we have history, and you should try to respect that. What do you want Punjabis to turn into girls my losing their cultural heritage of being warrior tribes? Please don’t get me mad, I feel like breaking my PC screen when you don’t give Punjabis some respect. We love you because you’re our brothers but brothers do not always get along. And you should always listen to the bigger and stronger brother (Punjabis) or we will kick your asses.

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karachi generates 65% of pakistan.karachi is the business hub there are good universities in lahore no doubt about it but karachi is the most literate city.
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I don’t know about this, maybe you can show me some links proving this. I don’t know much about Pakistan; last time I was there I had 100s of village girls after me and writing me love letters. And they sure as hell knew English, actually their English was better then mine I was somewhat surprised. And I am talking about Punjabi village girls. Not educated girls from the inner cities. Punjabi families put loads of emphasis on education. Punjabis are not hot headed boothus which you’re trying to make out.

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I dont need to reply on the racist remarks you made against bihari muslims and people from Karachi
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Don’t like I didn’t make any racist remarks. I don’t even know what bbiharis are, the name sounds like something you’d call homosexuals. Now that is funny…

Lol I am only playing with you my brother don’t take it personally, but you’re funny though.

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The two extremes meet they find something in common LAND OF THE DINOSAURS is pakhtunistan and the other for punjabiyat
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I don’t know what you’re talking about here. Lol

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Culture is not confined to movies only...appreciating artistic content of another culture doesn't mean the culture has become all-pervading...a lot of people watch English movies and listen to Arabic and Dari songs but that is only voluntary...Further, culture is not limited to songs and movies only...it is an all encompassing phenomenon with many dimensions like language, values, norms, traditions, social organization, folklore, litrature...in fact everything about a culturally cohesive group...
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I agree with you somewhat, although movies and stuff like that is part of culture but movies are not the whole of culture. And watching a foreign movie doesn’t make you lose your cultural Identities, its just they make damn good movies, and that should inspire us to make damn good movies. Like last time I said our women are going to India and becoming **ya they are talking it from Hindu men. We should not allow these women back into our country it’s a *ing disgrace. And this should give us more reason to expand our own culture Karachites have no culture so lets get at Punjabis we do lets expand that and have their nice sexy hindu women coming to Pakistan to make movies (Aishuriya Rai) you get me. We have nice scenery too in Pakistan. This is no argument that Hindu women are so hot, it’s true. So we should be bringing them into our cities so we can admire their sexyness.

[quote]
Its mohammed ali jinnah and not ali jannina
yeah and making a greater punjab and khalistan surely wont help.
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Yeah Ali what ever. Do you even know this guy was a Ishmali? He was not a Sunni Muslim probably a Shia, married to a Gori that is a smack in the face of Pakistani women. A *ing guy talking about Pakistan married to a gori. Doesn’t make any sense. Like that *ing asshole Imran Khan this mother****er should be killed already. This topic is close to my hear and yes I am getting a little emotional. But seriously, you should smack a guy in the face who says Ali Jinna wanted to make Pakistan into an Islamic state, that is not only disrespect to you, but also disrespect to Islam, and you should smack him in the face, for talking hypocrisy.

[quote]
Really?? who is stopping you from speaking your own language? If you can't speak a word of Urdu then how would you communicate to any punjabi, Sindhi or balochi? Why must you discourage and kill Urdu in order to promote your own language.
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I know my sister you’re not talking to me, but I think you have missed the point sis. We say we should promote Punjabi language rather then Urdu. I don’t have a problem with girls speaking Urdu I think its cute, but guys speaking Urdu really sounds gay its like this guy is looking for something to stick in his ass. Do you really want your men to talk like girls? Punjabis is much better then Urdu, the thing I don’t get is, you guys have no culture what gives you lot a right to say what language should be the national language? I know sis, you will try to look for hate and hypocrisy in my words, but this is not the case, I am doing this out of love of my people not out of hate of others. Seriously, you non Punjabi women should be fighting for Punjabi rights and try to talk some sense into your men. All we say is don’t promote Hindu culture, and Urdu is very similar to Hindi in neutral sources and dictionaries it’s called, Hindustani. In history do you want to be remembered as a Hindu speaking *****? Or a modest Muslim women, or even a Punjabi women?

[quote]
I have studied for 2 years in a government school in Karachi. why?
Becuz my parents wanted me to learn and adopt the culture, and not get hung up on English and urdu only, Like nowadays we see how many parents put their children into british and american schools and feel proud of it that is all BS
[/quote]

That is all good sis, you should also learn about Punjabi men an culture, then you will understand why Punjabis are so passionate about this topic. I don’t hate you; I’d put my life up for yours, but like not caring about our cultural heritage gets us mad. And you women hide behind women. Punjabi men like to talk straight and to the face of the person, we will not go behind your back and talk about you, we will say what we feel straight up. Please try to learn about Muslim Punjabi men and please also try to marry one. And I agree with you all this English is bs. We have out own language and culture we should not be dependent on other cultures. The Arabs failed, they had most of the known world conquered and yet they still couldn’t get everyone to speak Arabic and you know why? Because European states hated this now Islamic culture, they did not give into it, and look at them now they rule the world, and we should do the same we should resist Hindu culture.

[quote]
Mind you, if my parents wanted they could have let me go to any English school and learn NOTHING about pakistan. If you do not know about this
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I don’t know about that, but I prefer Pakistani girls from Pakistan. Rather then ungrateful and unrespectful British Pakistani girls. Although I can see what you’re trying to say but I would like to mention I am a British born Pakistani man, I have only been to Pakistan a few times. But I know about Pakistan, I want to see it to be a prosperous nation. But many pepole don’t care about it, they see all the bad (the *ty standards of living backward inverted culture ect.) and they don’t want anything to do with it, many British Pakistanis call themselves Indians then Pakistanis because our country is in a * state. Although it is doing well under Musharaf rule. And my point here is, that a person himself has to be interested in his original homeland. You can’t really teach anyone it. And I’ll be damned if I marry a rich British Pakistani girl, I would rather marry a poor Pakistani girl from Pakistan.

[quote]
Urdu is and should always stay a universal language of Pakistan becuz it is a way of communication between all Pakistanis today
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When you say things like that I think to myself if really you want to be a Hindu then a Pakistani. We can teach Punjabi in schools, we could make it compulsory in 10 years time everyone will speak Punjabi, and just to keep the Urdu speakers happy we could make Urdu for the posh and privileged. In other words for the rich. And I belive that can work look at English in England. The Queen speaks differently to the majority of the population, and every county has its own distinct dialect. And still everyone understands each other; the same thing could be done with Punjabi and Urdu. But the problem with Urdu is, its predominantly Hindu dialect borrows heavily from Hindu culture. And we should not promote anything that is remotely Hindu, this just makes us look like we don’t have any culture. You can play this game, ask an Arabic person what he thinks of Pakistanis and Indians, he will majority of the time say: “well Pakistanis are Muslims and Indian are Hindus” which maybe true to some extent, however we will not try to make a bigger distinction that that. Which basically means we have no culture as Pakistanis, we are called Muslims which is true, but Arabs are also Muslims but they are called Arabs most of the time, because they have an Arab culture. See what I mean.

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1- Karachi and its people fed from start and still feed whole country by giving up to 70 % revenue which the country spends on food and defence etc.
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Yes that has been mentioned before. And if someone gives me some links I’d look into it myself. Because that claim seems interesting.

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So called agriculture state has never been able to feed its own people with agriculture products. We had this discussion in at least one previous thread.
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This is not true look at India Punjab, its pronominally agriculrial based, and its doing very well. And would be able to self sustain itself in the medium to short term future. Although I do realizes that, we have to change with the times and we need to build better infrastructure in Pakistan, because in the world scene, Pakistan is lagging in this department. We need to urbanise our cities, even if that means we need to decrease the defence budget. Or our nations will not be economically viable and it will not be bale to self sustain itself. But Pakistanis don’t seem to like hard truths, they don’t want to believe that Pakistan is a subpar nations compared to its counter parts. The only thing to be proud of our nation is the army, and what does that say about us?

[quote]
Same Karachiites (Muhaajirs)ran the country with their education, intellect and wealth to keep the country afloat during initial time (and still are )when many locals were confused of what to do or we had lost first battle in 1948. Machoism did not give country anything then.
[/quote]

Don’t talk about past things, its 2006 not 1948 it living in the past or hanging posters of dead people like (ali Jinnah) doesn’t help anyone, it makes us look silly, and as if we are stuck on a time warp. We need to think about the future. If I had the means I would run for president in Pakistan. I think we need a good strong leader, who can see the reality and has his feet firmly planted on the ground.

[quote]
What could be more dumb than this?
Its people like you who are hell bend on disrespecting great Karachiites
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I do not hate on Krachites, I don’t like a few things about them like wanting to speak Urdu and being pansies. They have an inferiority complex toward Hindus and that is a real issue. Even a good psychologist would agree with me.

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2- Admittedly punjaabis are good fighter in Pak Army but in few Pak history majority Punjabi army lost fight in East Pakistan (Sadly). You mentioned tanks which only happened in 1965 when Lahore was attacked. When attacked close to home army really faught with heart.
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See you mention East Pakistan? Why did the war start in the first place? Because the government didn’t care about East Pakistanis, it was taking the money made from Jute and spending it on West Pakistan. People are not stupid; the government like its doing now with Punjabis never respected them. The government loves Punjabis for one thing and that is for being expandable troops, Punjabis have done so much for Pakistan, and yet we have to beg at people like you who are trying to wipe out our cultural heritage. Carry on with this path and you’ll lose Punjab, it will separate from Pakistan. And then we will laugh as we watch them Hindus you love so much ripp you apart, and take your women and pimp them. Hindus fear Punjabi Muslims, they never want to face Punjabis in war, they always send Sikh regiments to fight with Punjabi dominated divisions. It’s the Punjabis who are the foot soldiers of Pakistan most non Punjabis are artillery units or pilots both are **** positions reserved for those who don’t really want to fight. Although I must give credit to our po9loits they are heroes. But dropping a bomb from high altitude is not like being in the front lines fighting when you’re wet, hungry and tired, and the enemies are upon you.

[quote]
Some Punjaabi even did not feel ashamed of fighting againt muslims in Brit Army or when they faught against weaker Palestinians in order to save Hussain's kingdom and earning medals. 3- What could be considered a bigger 'f@Rt ' then
trying punjaabi or arabic the national language?
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See you’re living in the past, Punjabis are loyal, and many joined the British army because India was part of the commonwealth and they could feed their families, if they did not many would not have had jobs or even an opportunity to live in a more prosperous part if the world like in England. And Palestinians? I don’t know anything about that. Many Punjabis joined Hitler’s army like I said before, there were reasons why they joined it, not out of love for Brits, but they had to feed their families.

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Did you read about Ranjit Singh dear.......he did abuse punjaabis-muslms. Your personal family was not touched by him so it means all other punjaabis had a great time too?
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Again you’re talking about the past, and also I would like to mention the Muslims did the same when they were ruling, like Binqasim, Mohammed Ghori, ect, ect. Its was the “norm” then. And it was usually some guy sitting in a mansion making the orders, and the troops who had joined because of job oprtinutes and for good pay had no choice but to act on those orders. And we should not forget about these things we should remember them, but we should also learn to move on and not to be stuck in the past.

[quote]
You acted like goodie goodie with sikhs who had chaye (tea) at your house..so what did it make you then, when other punjaabis had brutal treatment from Ranjit? Doesn't that prove you were not 'man' enough to protect women from rape and murder?
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I don’t know about that, but then information was not available easily. Its was based on hearsay I mean we are talking about a time when there was no post offices and you got letters after months there was no internet or newspapers (?) or telephones. Many people didn’t know what was going on.

[quote]
What kind of bravery are you talking about when you kicked someone from R-Pindi out? A majority muslim place
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How was it majority Muslims? When the ruling were non Muslims and also areas like Gujer Khan, Kallar Siyda, Bawal, Sui Cheema were full of Sikhs? My grandfather was a Jatt Cheema by the way. And most of the Sikhs are Jatt. And at that time it was not majority Muslims, Muslims were very weak, the Sikhs had good weapons are garrisons, and horses and stuff. The Punjabis had nothing but there life, they walked into hail of arrows and tuck Sikh strongholds. Can you image that? 1000s of arrows and you running into them? Not caring about your life? And they didn’t have to do this, they could have just let the Sikhs rule them, but they fought instead and taught a very good lesson to Sikhs. Look at Sikhs now they are slaves, slaves in their own lands slaves to the Hindus, and this is all because they messed with the wrong people and that was Jatt Punjabi Muslims. I bet they don’t teach that history in Punjabis schools in India. Our forefathers tuck their land and women that is a major ownage. But we should move on from stuff like this it was not cool and it was really very stupid, and was all the workings of MI5 agents. We only ****ed ourselves up. And we should be ashamed of this history of ours where we were fighting like god with out own people really the only difference was religion.

[quote]
6-If it was not Urdu, Pakistan would have been divided long time ago.
Smart move from the Quaid who knew the country people more than you can imagine.
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Yes what ever. It would have not been divided if everyone spoke Punjabi, and you talk about unity when a guy like Ali Jinnah did not even marry a Pakistani women? He married a British woman. But again this is the past, we need to move on.

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Power of Urdu is in its acceptance of ALL words and languages and thats why its called urdu= Lashkar. Its a bond among people from different areas and of different languages.
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What does that have anything to do with anything? We want to promote our own distinct culture. Just because everyone speaks it doesn’t make it good. Majority of people in the Subcontinent are Hindus, what does that mean ? jack all. All Muslims are not going to convert to Hinduism are they? Also, if we did teach Punjabi in our schools eventually everyone would be speaking it, and that would create a strong bond, because they also have a vibrant Punjabi culture to go with it. And am not talking about Idiots who act like wankers (some pepole from Sialkot) who don’t have no respect for anyone. We could have a strong Punjabi culture based on Islamic principles it would be the best thing ever. Punjabis would have respect for others and appropriate behaviour of talking to others and showing respect, becouse I do agree with you some Punjabis go over the top and act like kafirs then Muslims, like showing no respect or listing to loud music and women dancing. Lol, I can tell you something, I was in Silkot for a wedding the last time I was in Pakistan. And the girl was really nice, but she acted very childish, and her mother was nice I liked her she had respect and stuff but her father and her brothers were idiots. And then the funniest thing happened, you know like they do dancing on the wedding, and I was sleep and the girls mother wakes me up and says to me check the girls out dancing, and I thought yeah I’ll follow her and she was making me look at her daughter dancing and other girls. Which I found weird and disturbing.

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You mentioned similarity of Sikhs and muslims (hillarious analogy). By your silly analogy, Lenin, Abraham Lincoln and people like them must be pious muslims!
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Don’t know what you found funny about that analogy but I was making a point that Sikhs have self respect and practice modesty, which are both fundamental parts of Islamic culture. And have been around a lot longer then Sikhism. And those American guys might have been pious Christians. Although I still can’t make out how you can make that correlation to this topic.

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You need to stop showing your anti-Pakistani mentality. Had no idea people are brought up to be like you coming from Pakisani family.
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Who the hell are you to tell me not to voice my opinions? I don’t eat from your house that you can tell me what to do. And I don’t have a Anti Pakistani mentality if I did I would be calling myself Indian and living in India Punjab. Just because I don’t want to see my cultural heritage being wiped out doesn’t make me anti Pakistani. We should all be able to debate and talk about issues, without the fear of being called unpatriotic. Like I told you I haven’t spent much time in Pakistan, I live in England. So am more so raised as a British Muslims Pakistani then an Pakistani born Muslim Pakistani, if that makes any sense to you. Could I marry your sister? If I was a Punjabi living in Pakistan? I don’t think so, you would try everything to stop it, why because you don’t like Punjabis for some reason.

[quote]
You are living in dream world thinking that Urdu Hindi is same. You must have heard "Urdu" on indian channels but not Hindi. It is completely different language.
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That maybe true, but going by the natural definition then its Urdu is Hindustani look it up in any dictionary. And these people practice ethnology they don’t just randomly add anything into the dictionary without doing proper research before hand. So Urdu is Hindustani.

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Most of Afghanis I know by far LOVE hindi and are all crazy about indian movies. Yea Good luck with enforcing everyone to adopt a culture and language of arabs and persia which nobody in Pakistan have ever known. 99% of the population in Pakistan is and will be much more comfortable with Indian culture not arab!
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Don’t you mean Hindu culture? This is the point I am trying to make, it seems like I’ve been trying an no ones been reading. My posts are really not that long. Anyway, wouldn’t it be better to have a Punjabi culture then a Hindu culture. Why are you so opposed to Punjabi culture, why do you prefer Hindu culture over Punjabi culture I mean damn I like Hindu women, and movies but that doesn’t mean I should go out and proliferate Hindu culture, just because I like a few aspects of Hindu culture.

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Thats what make us Pakistanis unique today becuz we are all muslims but we have not lost our identity which is SOUTH ASIANS. We are not arabs.
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And we are not Hindus, majority of Pakistanis are Jatt, and there cultural heratige goes back to the era of Binqasim, and Turkish (ottoman) rule, Sultana Razia, ect, ect. We should not be engulfed into Hindu culture out forgathers fought for our freedom and our culture, and our land. They would be going crazy in their graves listening to Pakistanis “saying yeah we should all promote Hindu culture because we have an inferiority complex.” There is nothing wrong with Punjabi culture its better then Hindu culture.

Re: Urdu (Language)

So I guess the stuff I heard about punjabis was right!

One time my dad told me that while he was in lahore, this lahoris guy was talking to this sikh guy and saying that "we (lahori, punjabi) miss you sikhs guys so much". This is to say it was in the sixties (not too long after partition) and a lot of punjabis were killed by sikhs.

Maybe it doesn't matter to punjabs in pakistanis (as the people killed were east punjabis) but sikhs also used to park their horses in the muslim mosques of punjab which I believe stomp must really like.

All in all, it is really PROVING that the idea of Pakistan was and is now a HUGE FAILURE.
You can't change people's attitudes so why bother.

Re: Urdu (Language)

Maybe it doesn't matter to punjabs in pakistanis (as the people killed were east punjabis) but sikhs also used to park their horses in the muslim mosques of punjab which I believe stomp must really like.

Stop living in the past. And also we don't even know if this stuff was true.

Re: Urdu (Language)

yeh, but the only I see the country surviving is to coe to terms with our differences. If it was bonded by religion keep it, don't overstep and impose other things on the diverse communities.