Re: Urdu (Language)
^ Well yeah the least they can do is leave Hindus and Sikhs out of it.
Urdu is a beautiful language btw.
Re: Urdu (Language)
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Kufar or shirk.Non muslim is a non muslim sikh and hindus both are not ahle kitab or we dont have any common prophet like we have with other abrahim religions(jews and christians).
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So, what we have a common culture with them Islam doesn’t say anything about being intolerant of other cultures and religions.
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So you know how loyal warriors they are??at the time of partition they with hindus butchered muslims of east punjab so you respect them
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It was not one party to blame; it was also the fault of Muslims too. Since then Sikhs have not killed Muslims and Muslims have not killed Sikhs. Living in the paste or hanging pictures of dead people doesn’t help anyone. You need to move on, and bee respective and open-minded toward other cultures. Do you even know when Prophet Mohammed’s (pbuh) family member was sick it was a Punjabi Jatt who came to heal them? The Arabs had loads or respect for Jatts. This is the sole reason why so many Jatts converted to Islam when Mohammed Binqasim came to the subcontinent, the Jatts loved the way the Muslims did Jihad, and so many Jatts converted to Islam on mass, and helped Binqaasim conquer parts of the subcontinent.
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Man you look like the punjab,punjabi aur punjabiat kind of a guy.A punjabi to the core religion comes after
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That is not the case, religion does come first, but unessasirialy being intolerant of people is not part of Islam. We should be building alliances.
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Sikhs are kind of Hindus too, in fact their Gurus (Prophets) were born into Hindu families, Sikhism is an of shoot of Hinduism, many times Sikhs don't discern between themselves and Hindus, they often intermarry and many Punjabi Hindus pray at Sikh temples instead of Hindu ones and vice versa, there is also a custom amongst some Hindu castes to bring up their first son as a Sikh. Many Hindus consider Sikhism to be the military wing of Hinduism.
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This is not true, a true Sikh would never class himself as a Hindu or a Muslim it would go against his fundamental beliefs. And can I tell you something Sikh Gurus where also Muslims too, the have hymns of Muslims in their holy book. And anyway Guru Nanak respected Muslims; many Muslims believe he actually was a Muslim. Guru Nanak prayed with Muslims, he ate with Muslims, and meditated with Muslims. He never acted like a Hindu he acted more like a Muslim then a Hindu, also am not sure but he married a Muslim women too, not a Hindu women. And all this stuff of about Sikhism being a military wing of Hinduism is a load of bs. Real Sikhs from Punjab don’t like Hindus; also Hindus in the past sold out their Gurus to the Mongols for money, so your claim of it being a military wing is wrong. Also, Hindus attacked the holiest place for Sikhs the golden temple in armistriar, the Hindu army that day killed loads of Sikhs in Punjab, and cut power to the whole region. And oppressed Sikhs and still do.
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Sikhs have been historical enemies of Islam and today I find that your beloved Sikhs harbour more hatred towards Muslims and Islam compared to Hindus, generally Sikhs hate all Muslims alike regardless of whether it is a Punjabi Muslim or an Arab Muslim.
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Well what you expect at the time yes, Sikhs did not like Islam, it was a foreign religion invading their lands they feared it at the time also some Muslim rulers were pretty oppressive, and put heavy taxes on Sikhs who started getting discontent with the arguments. Now this is not the case Sikhs understand, that actually Islam is not that bad, and that the Hindus had mislead them in the past with all the promises they made. You know if Sikhs had a homeland it would probably be the most prosperous region in the subcontinent? Also how you see how Sikh women dress (modestly) the act and dress more like Muslim women, unlike Hindu (londiya) who walk about half naked showing their fat guts in them Saari.
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You need to read up on history, Sikhs have always sided with the Hindus and fought against Muslims, read up about their short rule over Punjab and their atrocities against the Muslims of Punjab and the murders and rapes they committed against Punjabi Muslims during partition, maybe that’s the reason all my friends whose families came from east Punjab speak Urdu and don’t identify with the Punjabi identity.
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And what about the Sikhs and Hindu women which were forced to convert to Islam and then raped? It was wrong but it was happening on both sides and that is the grim reality of war. Also you know Gori the Arab general? He killed the Hindu king Pitervani because he didn’t convert to Islam he beheaded him and then raped the queen, he was Rajput king I think. Am sure you’ll probably heard of him. And also living in the past doesn’t help anyone.
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Hindus might be more blatantly Mushrik because they make use of more images in worship but in a way Sikhs are Mushrik too because they believe their Gurus were incarnations of God
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That is a pure lie, Sikhs don’t believe this. They do not believe any of their Gurus were incarnations of God.
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You are either a Kaafir or a Muslim, there is no middle ground. Anyone who rejects Allaah’s guidance (Qur’aan wa Sunnah), the real guidance for manmade “guidance” such as the Granth or “guidance” which was tampered with by man such as the present day Torah is a Mushrik because they are giving preference to the teachings of a mortal over the teaching of God, there are different degrees of Shirk and some are more higher than others but they are all Shirk nevertheless.
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So a Muslims should not mutually respect others? And show tolerance to others? Show me one verse from the Qur’an where it says you should not be respect for or tolerant towards non Muslims.
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So you would give your life for Sikh Kaafirs/Mushriks when a Muslim only gives his life for Allaah and one who dies fighting for ethnicism or tribalism died the death of jaahiliyyah? Sikhs would gladly take your life. Shame you’d give your life for a people who stored heroin and tied donkeys in our Mosques, at least Hindus never had the balls to do any of that.
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I am saying if Sikhs were living under Muslims rule and Hindus or someone else came to attack them then yeah I would help them out, the Qur’an says saving one life is like saving the whole of humanity, and you should always help those who are oppressed regardless of what religion he/or. She follows. Did you know recently, a Sikh joined the Pakistani army? Times are changing you need to move on, there are Christians in Pakistan. Muslims tolerate them. And Christians have done much worse to Muslims then Sikhs have. The Crusades?
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You don't have to look further than the Internet to see how much your ham-zubaans love you, just visit a Sikh Punjabi site and search "Muslim" or search "Rani" on this website.
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Look I’m not like you, I know Sikhs personally on the internet its mainly Hindus perdenting to me Sikhs who attack Muslims, it’s the classic trick of Hindus, you seem like you love Hindus, that the problem with people from Karachi, they like Hindus too much and want to be like them and speak like them. Try this www.jattworld.com.
Re: Urdu (Language)
pakistan is a mosaic of different nations: punjab, sindh, balotch, pakhtunwa, kashmir...
and i like he idea of urdu as the national language, because it is a unifing language, which have mulitple roots: we can find indic and persian words in it...
i may be wrong but i learnt that urduemerged as a language for communication between the soldiers of the mughal empire...as they were coming from diffferent provinces of the empire (like the diferent provinces f pakistan)...and it was mainly a communication language....so it as born to be the national unifying lanuguage of pakistan
moreover the script is very elgant...like old persian manuscript....and urdu has eveolved into a elaborated litterature and poetry language
i don't think we should oppose the traditional regional languages, like punjabi or pashto...to the national unifying language that is urdu.
i see both roles as different, and those languages should not compete...but complete each other!
Re: Urdu (Language)
we cant be intolerant to those who are from other religions and here i mean all the religions that includes hindus as well.But for us all non muslims are same.we have some things which are common with other religions like judaism and christianity.Muslim men carry marry jewish and christian women(some scholars say that it is not practicable since the books are not present in their original form) and kosher meat etc.muslim punjabis have common culture with hindu punjabis as well so why only sikhs.
Obviously hindus and sikhs were also murdered by muslim.But the sikh mobs were the most active during that time.
I havent heard anything like that a jatt treating some one from ahla e baith,kindly provide me any refrence on it there are stories of dutts in the army of Imam Husain in the battele karabala but those cant be verified as well.
The people who spread islam in south asia were mainly sufis and ullemas.I have only heard that binqasim came to sindh and faught against the raja dahir of sindh and people were greatly relieved when the kingdom of raja fell.
We cant build alliances with non muslims can we.surely we can have pacts and agreements with them like sulahe hudaibiya mesaq e madina but we cant have a muslim sikh army surely
Muslim rulers imposed jizya on non muslim i think aurangzeb.Man if you prefer sikh women over hindu women thats your personal view.
As far as ghauri is concerned he was from central asian afghanistan region and surely not arab.who says so that forced conversions are allowed in islam and obviously to force someone to a particular religion is not right.
The christians of pakistan are oppressed my friend they atleat did not take part in crusades it was christians from other areas spain etc.a sikh in pakistan army so what.He will fight for pakistan and not islam
and your never ending hate against the people of karachi what can i say jatt saaab.dont prove that you are a JAAHIL JAT.
Jatts are hindus as well my friend most part of north india is jutt I think 30 40%
try a search on ranjit singh and others.some historians believe that he used badshahi masjid as a stable for his horses.
Re: Urdu (Language)
This man/boy is not even a Pakistani and has no idea what is good or bad for Pakistan and brings the idea against Pakistani core issue. A retarded who is Punjaabi nationalist and hate monger.
There are many many patriotic Punjaabis but it seems he belongs to other camp.
There are people who have this fantacy of greater punjaab which includes all punjaabis including same sikhs who kicked muslim punjaabis so hard these kind of punjaabis still living under Ranjit Singh era.
These kind of people accepted rape and murder against Punjaabi women and men without fighting as 'men'. These are the kind of Punjaabis who still have Ranjit Singh Photos in their living/drawing rooms.
Re: Urdu (Language)
This person needs a crash course on history as well.
Re: Urdu (Language)
Thank you Sir.
Re: Urdu (Language)
Hats off to you man, I agree with everything you’ve said. 
:k:
Bihari people should be brought home now and settled in NWFP, they’ll soon fit in and intermarry with our people, Urdu speaking women are really respected by our people and it’s considered a sign of prestige to marry them because they are so refined and pretty, and the Urdu speaking people I know have a thing for light skin so we’d get on like peas in a pod if they were settled in NWFP, lol. 
Re: Urdu (Language)
:halo:now thats RACISM
Re: Urdu (Language)
Stomp dude you are so messed up it’s not even funny, your understanding of religion and history is completely twisted, you’ve been listening to too much Sikh propaganda.
If you hadn’t been so pro-Sikh I might have respected you a bit but now I highly doubt you’re even Pakistani, people from Pakistani Punjab are very happy just being Pakistani, you sound like a East Punjabi wet dreaming of a greater Punjab where you can rule over Muslims from West Punjab and have access to your shrines in our half of the Punjab.
Yes Islam expects us to respect people of other religions but that includes Hindus as much as your beloved Sikhs, and respect and tolerance doesn’t mean adopting their ways and accepting their religion as truthful which your posts seem to imply. Oh yeah and you want to watch less Lollywood, if Hindus are bad Sikhs are just as bad.
Guru Nanank certainly copied a lot of beliefs and concepts from Islam but he was not a Muslim, in Islam you accept the whole package not bits and pieces, believing in bits and pieces is useless, many times he and the later Gurus deliberately belittled Islamic teachings and put fourth what their own whims or their Hindu scriptures told them, Guru Nananak might have followed many Islamic traditions but later he said they were “unnecessary and pointless” and no he did not marry a Muslim woman, he married Sulakhani the daughter of a Hindu named Sri Moolchand. By the way you seem to think that a Muslimah marrying a Kaafir is a good thing? Well Muslim women are only allowed to marry Muslim men, and Muslim men are only allowed to marry Muslim or chaste Judeo-Christian women, any other marriages by Muslims are null under Islamic law and it counts as fornication.
Re: Urdu (Language)
Go play with your Barbie dolls or watch Telletubbies or something.
Re: Urdu (Language)
If you hadn’t been so pro-Sikh I might have respected you a bit but now I highly doubt you’re even Pakistani, people from Pakistani Punjab are very happy just being Pakistani, you sound like a East Punjabi wet dreaming of a greater Punjab where you can rule over Muslims from West Punjab and have access to your shrines in our half of the Punjab.
Yes Islam expects us to respect people of other religions but that includes Hindus as much as your beloved Sikhs, and respect and tolerance doesn’t mean adopting their ways and accepting their religion as truthful which your posts seem to imply. Oh yeah and you want to watch less Lollywood, if Hindus are bad Sikhs are just as bad.
Guru Nanank certainly copied a lot of beliefs and concepts from Islam but he was not a Muslim, in Islam you accept the whole package not bits and pieces, believing in bits and pieces is useless, many times he and the later Gurus deliberately belittled Islamic teachings and put fourth what their own whims or their Hindu scriptures told them, Guru Nananak might have followed many Islamic traditions but later he said they were “unnecessary and pointless” and no he did not marry a Muslim woman, he married Sulakhani the daughter of a Hindu named Sri Moolchand. By the way you seem to think that a Muslimah marrying a Kaafir is a good thing? Well Muslim women are only allowed to marry Muslim men, and Muslim men are only allowed to marry Muslim or chaste Judeo-Christian women, any other marriages by Muslims are null under Islamic law and it counts as fornication.
I say we can close this thread with this good post.
This Stomp guy is probably selling tomatos in UK street and day-dreaming of 'greater punjaab'. :)
(Now there is nothing bad about selling tomatos folks...but day-dreaming like this is!!)
Re: Urdu (Language)
You know what everyone has a different way of looking at things..and you cannot change that no matter how hard you tryy...YOU NEED TO GROW UP and stop whinning thats all i have to say to you...
Re: Urdu (Language)
this thread is hillarious....
Faruk Khan..talk about having to bringing all biharis and have them setteled in NWFP and balochistan.. now thats a neat idea ;) diversity is good :D
Re: Urdu (Language)
sta de mor kuss, lewaney bachey. who the hell are you to divide pakistan?
i can tell by your first post you’re a damn afghan toe rag, you're not from pakistan.
our nwfp has suffered enough at the hands of refugee beggars, drug dealers and murderers, it was a haven and quite prosperous region before all the randdbachey, badmashaan, charsiyaan came … they can feck off back to their country now, melmastiya over… we have nothing in common with them except language and they are giving that up too for damned farsi. we’ve left afghanistan behind, i feel closer to punjabi pakistanis than i do to kabulis, silly linguistic ties of old don't mean anything when new close ties of blood and marriage have been formed, my own nephews are half punjabi and my other cousin is marrying a girl from karachi after they've both graduated from med college.
don’t expect any pakistani pukhtoon with even half a brain to fall for your bull, what have you got to offer us in your country except poverty and rocks? we don’t want our future geberations to live in caves or starve to death, we’ll leave that to u, we’re happy in pakistan, pukhtuns have everything in their country Pakistan, we are in the pakistani goverment, in the pakistan army, in pakistani sports teams. all pakistanis are happy i wish you non-pakistanis would just leave us alone and stop posing as pakistanis on here.
don't you dare insult our fellow pakistanis by calling them dark and greasy, at least they are hotter than afghans, pukhtuns of peshawar valley are hot too but most afghans i've seen are no oil paintings, ever looked in the mirror? pale skin and dark hair combo, big noses, stained teeth, overtly big bones and a "corpse" look are hardly anyones idea of pretty or handsome, so my friend people in glasses houses shouldn't throw stones.
Re: Urdu (Language)
first of all this thread has completely turned from the initial reason it was made. Second no need for racist commetns and insults to ones family. Faruk, all pashtuns are afghan, whether you agree to it or not (don't come with the idea that afghan is no longer for pashutns on both sides of the durand, since we have it on our domicile and identity). I ll be damned if someone tries to take my Afghan/Pakhtun/Pashtun identity from me, theres no compromise to that. If biharis wish to live in Pashtunistan(Afghania), they are more than welcome, we will respect there culture adn they should respect ours. I would like to , and many pashtuns will agree keep our afghan(pashtun) traditions, and move on. We don't have to be chavisnists, but wunderkind keep dreaming. I will learn urdu, but Pashtu first. I sincerely know we pashtuns have not become beghairat and are going to throw our identity away for a coutnry made 58 years ago(no offence intended). Just respect all the languages and get on with your lives. Pakistan was supposed to be made (or so I heard) on the basis of Islam, so keeps this desinization or urdufication(kemalist's ideas) to yourselves.
Pa dranakht.
Re: Urdu (Language)
^^Don't sound Pakistani.
Wish we had these emotions saved for our (Pakistan's)common enemies.
I still say close this thread since its already been derailed in my humble opinion.
Re: Urdu (Language)
I am born and raised in Lahore. I love urdu. Although I can speak punjabi but I think URDU is a decent language. I have never had any problems about this language issue.
Re: Urdu (Language)
I don't think the question about decent or not decent or posh or prinmtive languages. this only breeds hatred and inferiority/superirioty complexes.