UK troops degrade Iraqi's / Kill civilians including 8 year old girl (MERGED)

Just a handful of rogue soldiers? That must be why these stories were kept under the lid until someone blew the whistle. Looks like Chota was right the torture is systemized and and approved from the top after all.

UK forces taught torture methods

David Leigh
Saturday May 8, 2004

The Guardian

The sexual humiliation of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison was not an invention of maverick guards, but part of a system of ill-treatment and degradation used by special forces soldiers that is now being disseminated among ordinary troops and contractors who do not know what they are doing, according to British military sources.
The techniques devised in the system, called R2I - resistance to interrogation - match the crude exploitation and abuse of prisoners at the Abu Ghraib jail in Baghdad.

One former British special forces officer who returned last week from Iraq, said: “It was clear from discussions with US private contractors in Iraq that the prison guards were using R2I techniques, but they didn’t know what they were doing.”

He said British and US military intelligence soldiers were trained in these techniques, which were taught at the joint services interrogation centre in Ashford, Kent, now transferred to the former US base at Chicksands.

“There is a reservoir of knowledge about these interrogation techniques which is retained by former special forces soldiers who are being rehired as private contractors in Iraq. Contractors are bringing in their old friends”.

Using sexual jibes and degradation, along with stripping naked, is one of the methods taught on both sides of the Atlantic under the slogan “prolong the shock of capture”, he said.

Female guards were used to taunt male prisoners sexually and at British training sessions when female candidates were undergoing resistance training they would be subject to lesbian jibes.

“Most people just laugh that off during mock training exercises, but the whole experience is horrible. Two of my colleagues couldn’t cope with the training at the time. One walked out saying ‘I’ve had enough’, and the other had a breakdown. It’s exceedingly disturbing,” said the former Special Boat Squadron officer, who asked that his identity be withheld for security reasons.

Many British and US special forces soldiers learn about the degradation techniques because they are subjected to them to help them resist if captured. They include soldiers from the SAS, SBS, most air pilots, paratroopers and members of pathfinder platoons.

A number of commercial firms which have been supplying interrogators to the US army in Iraq boast of hiring former US special forces soldiers, such as Navy Seals.

“The crucial difference from Iraq is that frontline soldiers who are made to experience R2I techniques themselves develop empathy. They realise the suffering they are causing. But people who haven’t undergone this don’t realise what they are doing to people. It’s a shambles in Iraq”.

The British former officer said the dissemination of R2I techniques inside Iraq was all the more dangerous because of the general mood among American troops.

“The feeling among US soldiers I’ve spoken to in the last week is also that ‘the gloves are off’. Many of them still think they are dealing with people responsible for 9/11”.

When the interrogation techniques are used on British soldiers for training purposes, they are subject to a strict 48-hour time limit, and a supervisor and a psychologist are always present. It is recognised that in inexperienced hands, prisoners can be plunged into psychosis.

The spectrum of R2I techniques also includes keeping prisoners naked most of the time. This is what the Abu Ghraib photographs show, along with inmates being forced to crawl on a leash; forced to masturbate in front of a female soldier; mimic oral sex with other male prisoners; and form piles of naked, hooded men.

The full battery of methods includes hooding, sleep deprivation, time disorientation and depriving prisoners not only of dignity, but of fundamental human needs, such as warmth, water and food.

The US commander in charge of military jails in Iraq, Major General Geoffrey Miller, has confirmed that a battery of 50-odd special “coercive techniques” can be used against enemy detainees. The general, who previously ran the prison camp at Guantánamo Bay, said his main role was to extract as much intelligence as possible.

Interrogation experts at Abu Ghraib prison were there to help make the prison staff “more able to garner intelligence as rapidly as possible”.

Sleep deprivation and stripping naked were techniques that could now only be authorised at general officer level, he said.

And here's how the less scrupulous scumbag press still don't show any remorse:

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*Originally posted by Judge^MentuLL: *
And here's how the less scrupulous scumbag press still don't show any remorse:

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They should put them on page 3.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
What makes these stories particularly damaging is that such acts are not the norm for British or American armies, but now that the pictures are out, that will become a moot point. Enitre US media is reporting on this 24hrs/day because the pictures are so shcoking. This type of stuff happens routinely in countries like Eqypt, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan, so it's not a big deal their, but for the US and Britian it is.
[/QUOTE]

Dude, you're on drugs

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Judge^MentuLL: *
And here's how the less scrupulous scumbag press still don't show any remorse:

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Man what a waste of trees!

pathetic even when they urinate on iraqis and abusing children young as 12 they saluting there soldiers, what bunch of brain dead morons!

This torture and murder is an easy to comprehend summation of the whole so called war;

  1. Iraq was linked to terrorism, WMD and labelled a ‘brutal regime’
  2. The UN was kicked into touch and replaced with mob justice (Guantanomo)
  3. The media was imbedded physically and mentally with the pro-war US regime and demonised Iraqi’s and grouped them as either Thugs, terrorists, ‘evil doers’
  4. The UK was coerced into giving the illegal invasion legitimacy against the wishes of the majority of people by an inept leader.
  5. The US administration came up with snappy phrases for mass murder ‘shock and awe’ ‘operation Iraqi freedom’
  6. The US sides ever more publicly with an ever more extreme Israel against the Palestinians in order to minimise hypocrisy in its actions in Iraq.
  7. 911, jingoism and an inherent ignorance of anything not media friendly is used against the American people to further dehumanise Iraqis
  8. In order to swiftly suppress a large mass of people torture is advocated from the highest of levels in keeping with the illegality of the war so far.
  9. The oil keeps flowing and bases are built and a peoples enslaved.

All this is a thick soup within which the people of America and to some extent the UK are steeped deeply the soldiers immersed completely.

The end result is a pack of dogs surrounding an innocent (until proven guilty) Iraqi man frightened for his life.

Now tell me if this is a few isolated dick heads, or is it just expected after the mass brainwash the world has been taken through since 911?

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=519432

Troops shot Iraqi civilians dead in cold blood, new dossier claims
Eight new instances today and an impending Amnesty report throw doubt on the conduct of UK soldiers in Basra

Scums of the highest order but no higer then trailer trash… both scums can only compete with each other.

Amnesty says British soldiers killed unarmed Iraqi civilians

53 minutes ago

LONDON (AFP) - British soldiers have fired on and killed Iraqi civilians, including an eight-year-old girl, in situations where there was apparently no serious threat and in many cases the British army has not even investigated the incidents, human rights group Amnesty International said in a report.

Amnesty report lists 37 ‘disputed’ killings by UK forces](http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=520103)

Hanan Matrud, an eight-year-old girl shot dead by British troops in Basra. She is one of 37 Iraqi civilians killed in disputed circumstances by UK soldiers. Today, an independent report into all these deaths presents new problems for the allies, already reeling from allegations of torture and abuse

**Hanan Matrud was playing with three friends when a British Army Warrior armoured vehicle pulled up near her home in a village in southern Iraq. As they ran forward to see what was going on, a shot rang out.

The girl, eight years old, was hit in the stomach with a rifle round. She was taken to the hospital, and had emergency surgery. She died the next day. **

There is little dispute that a British soldier was responsible. To her family and neighbours, it was cold-blooded murder.

The Army says she was probably hit when a warning shot was fired to disperse a stone-throwing mob. An inquiry has proved, the Army says, that the soldiers were not at fault.

Hanan was a “very unfortunate casualty of war”. That conclusion is contradicted by a witness, Mizher Yassin, who claims the troops were under no threat.

He says Hanan was standing in an alley about 60 to 70 metres from the armoured car when a soldier aimed and fired a shot.

A report issued today by Amnesty International claims the shooting of Hanan, on 21 August 2003 at Karmat Ali, was one of 37 deaths of civilians in incidents involving British forces. It says those who died posed no apparent threat.

The report claims many of
these cases have not been properly investigated and inquiries launched by the Royal Military Police have been secretive. Kate Allen, Amnesty’s UK director, said: "Killings by UK forces, in situations where they should not be using lethal force, are examined in secrecy.

“Instead of the Army deciding whether to investigate itself when civilians are killed, there must be full, impartial and civilian-led investigations.”

The report follows a further round yesterday of heated recriminations and accusations of torture, abuse, and killings of Iraqi civilians by US and British forces. Alleged systematic torture by Allied forces contained in two other reports, delivered to the US and British governments months ago, became public for the first time.

One dossier, by the International Committee of the Red Cross, was passed to the American and British governments in February but kept secret by both. The other, an earlier document prepared by Amnesty, was given to the Ministry of Defence in May last year, and discussed with officials from the MoD and the Foreign Office the following month.

The controversy over the handling of the issue by the British Government further intensified with Tony Blair admitting he had no knowledge of the Red Cross report until it appeared in the media.

“I have not seen this document”, said Mr Blair. “But let me make it clear to you, my understanding is the two issues raised by the Red Cross document in respect of abuses of Iraqi prisoners; there is one specific case on that issue and those were actually dealt with.”

The new disclosures also left a question mark over the conduct of Adam Ingram, the Armed Forces minister, who declared in the Commons last week that he had received “no adverse or other reports”.

MPs reacted with incredulity to claims by ministers that they had not been shown the Red Cross report. Geoff Hoon, the Secretary of State for Defence, said the document had been passed to Britain in confidence by Paul Bremer, the US head of the Coalition Provisional Authority, and copies were sent to Sir Jeremy Greenstock, who was the Prime Minister’s envoy to Iraq, British military officials in the country, and the military’s Permanent Joint Headquarters at Northwood in London. Officials decided the allegations against British forces had already been dealt with, and did not need to be referred to ministers.

The Red Cross report also describes how a 28-year-old man, Baha Mousa, was abused while in British custody and later died. Mr Mousa’s family have subsequently received an interim payment of £1,875 from the Government.

The military has also paid out a further £72,000 in compensation to 22 Iraqi families to settle abuse claims.

The Government stepped up its pressure on the Daily Mirror last night when Mr Hoon said the photographs published by the paper allegedly showing an Iraqi prisoner being mistreated by British soldiers looked “increasingly like a hoax”. But Mr Hoon was earlier forced to admit in the Commons that British troops had acted illegally in “hooding” prisoners in Iraq last year.

UK troops kill harmless Iraqis including an 8 year old girl

UK troops have killed Iraqi civilians including an eight-year-old girl when they were under no apparent threat, Amnesty International has claimed.

Will this murder of innocents not end?

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Sick.

These are the people who are running Iraq, and inshallah they will shown more Falluja-like defeats in the period to come, until they are totally expelled from the country.

sad and pathetic

in the absence of a transparent system, ppl know that they can get away with stuff, and that there is limited oversight and superiors willing to coverup for political reasons. the vilifyong of the foe has not helped matters either.

I hope that with these things out in the open, the world will demand enough accountability that the british military would have to be more responsible.

It seems like the Brits and Americans are in competition with each other in who can outdo the other with the most henious crime!

Most ideologoies across the world always mention women, children, elderly and the ill when talking about innocents and the frail (this is not a sexist comment) in all conflicts.

The woman, child and elderly have all been taken care of by the Yanks and Brits. The only one that's still to come in the public forum is the ill.

Once the ill has been abused, the crimes will turn against the under one year olds or something

Let us not forget that these are the people who are running Iraq - not just foreign invaders and occupiers, but shameless murderers and thugs.

Where will all this brutality end. The "liberators" are behaving worse than the Saddam regime. Even children are being viciously killed. Are the guardians of human rights and freedom going to hand over these murderers to the Iraqi justice system? They committed a crime in that country let their justice system deal with them.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mawarid: *
Where will all this brutality end. The "liberators" are behaving worse than the Saddam regime. Even children are being viciously killed. Are the guardians of human rights and freedom going to hand over these murderers to the Iraqi justice system? They committed a crime in that country let their justice system deal with them.
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I doubt these thugs and murderers will ever see the inside of a prison cell.

Malik

You are wrong. They will see prison cells.

Camera in one hand and dog leashes in the other!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's hope they do go to prison and the US are the jailers! Couldn't be more apt.

Sad, at least the Brits are accountable for any wrong doingm unlike us.

"But Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon told BBC Radio 4's World At One many of the cases had been raised already and were being investigated. "