[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Chota: *
The ultimate generic responsibility lies with the americans, specific with the other nations involved and jail time for the actual sickos.
Do you think it means it's okay then? wally.
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Oh well that's ok then - the guy pissing on the Iraqi isn't responsible then as it's the generic fault of the Americans. Pillock.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Judge^MentuLL: *
Oh well that's ok then - the guy pissing on the Iraqi isn't responsible then as it's the generic fault of the Americans. Pillock.
[/QUOTE]
Pull your head out of your arse and tell me where I said he wasn't to be punished?
"The ultimate generic responsibility lies with the americans, specific with the other nations involved and jail time for the actual sickos."
Do you know what dehumanising means? The pro-war media is also responsible. I don’t think this guy would piss on you if you paid him, the whole point is, that it is a result of a complete campaign against the Iraqi people at large and this incident and numerous like it are the end results.
So instead of getting lost in the detail of someones tiddler try and put things into a frame of reference in future.
bush and tony are idiots. they must follow the trend of mid east saddam type rulers and refute all charges as bogus, baseless, useless, false, so and so.......
SKy news poll showed 77% viewers thought the pics were fake and there is quite a stir now by all types of 'experts' who are casting doubts on the pics originality. I'll wait for the investigation to complete..now.
British Soldiers’ Brutality Not Isolated Incident
Ather Karen al-Mowafakia, who died on 29 April. No more is known about him.
Radhi Natna, who died on 8 May. The RMP investigation concluded that he died from natural causes after a heart attack and that no further action needed to be taken. But his family says that he had no history of heart trouble, and questions remain over his treatment.
Ahmad Jabber Kareem Ali, 17, also died on 8 May. According to his friend Ayad Salim Hanoon, the two were arrested in Basra by British troops, taken to the Shatt al-Basra waterway and ordered to swim across. Ayad said: “We reached the deepest point but Ahmad couldn’t swim. He sank and I couldn’t find him.”
Abd Al Jubba Mousa, 53, a headmaster, died on 17 May. He was seen being beaten with rifle butts as he was led away by British troops.
Said Shabram died on 24 May. Nothing more is known about him.
Hassan Abbad Said, died on 4 August. Nothing more is known about him.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=517303
All dead, all formerly in ‘custody’.
Hearts and minds, more like blood and brains. I wonder how much torture they endured at the hands of the invading pigs before they were murdered?
Tip of the iceberg.
^ yes where are the right wing brigade semi circle, no voice, im a dad , and rest where r u 
You usually have a lot to say for yourselves!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Chota: *
.... the whole point is, that it is a result of a complete campaign against the Iraqi people at large and this incident and numerous like it are the end results.
So instead of getting lost in the detail of someones tiddler try and put things into a frame of reference in future.
[/QUOTE]
What point are you trying to make exactly? So what if it's a complete campaign, acts like this still need to be carried out, and if you are talking about the campaign to de-humanise the Iraqis, it seems to have escaped your attention that these pictures are doing more to de-humanise the British troops above all. So talking about generic responsibility is somewhat missing the point. Still if you want to talk about the overall scheme of things vis a vis America while the rest of the world is up in arms over the pictures be my guest.
To be caught involved in torture and depravity and to be labelled 'thugs' for no apparent reason may have blurred into one for you.
The rest of the world is up in arms about how widespread this is and how indoctrinated into the command structure of the invasion this is.
You have to ask yourself why the occupying army would carry out such acts, this is not only about the individuals and the worry is about a more systemic approach.
Why so many incidents, why in both armies and to suggest the pentagon imbedded media had nothing to do with this is unlikely.
Yes it’s vile sickening and depraved, yes its most probably orchestrated and yes the ultimate responsibility lies with the Americans in the form of the media, administration’s labelling of a nation as terrorists and fundamentalists and thugs and the supporters who cheered the shock and awe campaign reinforcing the ‘un-civilised’ barbarity of gung ho revenge brainwashed patriotism.
So what's your point?
Quite disappointing that some of the best-selling dailies are more concerned about proving that the photos are fake when the testimony has come from the British squaddies themselves. Why blame the troops when the national press is more concerned about covering their tracks rather than putting things right?
The MOD should rush through their enquiry. It'll be interesting, the outcome that is.
Iraq pics
The Mirror says the pictures were handed over by British soldiers from the Queen's Lancashire Regiment who claimed a rogue element in the British army was responsible for abusing prisoners and civilians.
The disgust of the pictures published by the mirror is not surprising.
What do you think about these published photos?
Do you think they are authentic and these prisoners are brutally treated or that the photos are fake ?
What is your response on the iraq invasion as a whole?
I think that the pockets of resistance at the port of umm qasar were a joke as they carried on for a few days and that the UN disarmament should have been completed to detect and destroy WMD if there were any. Also Saddam should have exiled to avoid a potential war.
Americas excuse to attack iraq was 1441 as lame as their excuse to attack Aghfanistan as Bin Laden was always a prime suspect and not proven to be the mastermind behind the 9/11 attacks.
Adam Ingram toady said that MOD will conduct an inquiry weither photos are fake or not. and If not then the culpruts will brought to justice. At the moment Queen's Lancashire Regiment is based in Cyprus and under close observation. lets what comes out, or may be we will see a cover up accusing a few soldiors.
Welcome to GS.
I think this is a very interesting topic.
There have already been a number of debates on this subject. I thank you for bringing the subject in to the Gupshup cafe.
My personal view on the first question you asked is that all of the pictures are genuine, however I have theory regarding them.
First of all i think the american army is well capable of producing such ill behaviour towards its prisoners in Iraq,
Another thing regarding the pictures can be that the american army has had enough of listening to George W Bush and are looking for excuses to decrease the reputation of George W Bush by degrading the prisoners and producing pictures which have been bought in to the public eye.
I think the Iraq war is for two reasons.
America has had alot of problems regarding oil. The country is looking for a permanent solution to the problem.
Looking at this problem in more detail Iraq can also be seen as a base for america to spread across the middle east.
The question about the genuineness of the pictures is just a 'red herring' thrown in for good measure. It's a classic trait deployed to confuse the masses and raise an ayota of doubt. Which in the British Law of the Land, tends to be the cornerstone of legality. It's called 'Reasonable Doubt'. If there is reasonable doubt, the you must be aquitted and cannot be guilty. Get it now, raise a doubt, thus the military and British can be exhonerated.
It's too bad that the Americans were not too quick off the blocks, and didn't take this road. On the other hand, what did we expect from the Americans? They're not the brightest of people now are they!
Even the puppies in Iraq are insurgents it would seem :rolleyes:
Soldier faces jail for killing puppy
A BRITISH military policeman who admitted kicking a puppy to death in Iraq was found guilty of “disgraceful conduct of a cruel kind” at a court martial yesterday.
Adam Matthew Lee, 23, could be jailed for up to two years and dismissed from the ranks when he is sentenced next month. Judge Advocate Robert Seymour said that the court was considering a jail term. Lee admitted killing the white stray at a military police compound in June last year — one day after six of his colleagues were murdered by an Iraqi mob. Friends expressed their outrage at the conviction.
“We are all taught to kill. We were in a war zone, surrounded by stray dogs the brass said were verminous and he killed just one of them,” one colleague said. “This has been a sledgehammer to crack a nut.”
Lee said that although he was upset at the loss of his friends the killing of the stray puppy — which was fed rations and befriended by other troops in the garrison — was not provoked by grief.
The three-day military hearing was told how the dog had become an unofficial mascot to troops based at the Abu al- Khasib military police compound. Lee had claimed that he kicked the dog after being bitten by it.
The prosecution said that Lee had decided to kill the dog only after kicking it so badly when he lost his temper that he knew he then had to kill it to put it out of its misery.
THIRD BRIT SOLDIER TELLS US: I SAW PoW BEATINGS
Well if they can’t resist kicking the crap out of puppies it’s hardly likely that Iraqi prisoners are going to get off lightly.
Iraqi abuse ‘known in February’](BBC NEWS | UK | Blair urged to show abuse report)
**Downing Street has confirmed it received a Red Cross report on alleged abuses by UK troops on Iraqi prisoners in February.
A spokesman said action had been taken in response but declined to give details of the allegations or how they had been dealt with. **
He said this was because the report remained confidential.
He spoke after the Conservatives called on the government to reveal when it had learned of the claims.
Number 10, the Secretary of State for Defence and the Foreign Office must say whether or not these questions were indeed raised with them"
Nicholas Soames, shadow defence secretary
New Iraq abuse claims
On Saturday Shadow defence secretary Nicholas Soames urged Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon to give a statement to the Commons on Monday on the issue.
He demanded to know when the government learned of the abuse and to give details of investigations by the Royal Military Police into allegations of abuse by UK troops made in the Daily Mirror.
He said it would be “a matter of the gravest concern” if it emerged the Red Cross had raised the issue of prisoners’ abuses in Iraq with the UK government “quite some time ago”.
“Number 10, the secretary of state for defence and the Foreign Office must say whether or not these questions were indeed raised with them, and what actions were subsequently taken,” he said.
The controversy intensified after the Red Cross declared on Friday that it had warned the UK of abuses more than a year ago.
Fresh abuse claims
Also on Saturday, new questions over the conduct of British troops in Iraq were raised when the Daily Mirror published fresh claims by another troop, dubbed “soldier D”.
The latest serviceman to talk to the paper claimed an Iraqi suspect had been dragged into a vehicle where he was beaten.
The paper ran a front page picture taken by the soldier, who is still serving in the Queen’s Lancashire Regiment, apparently depicting the violent episode.
The picture shows what appears to be a British soldier taking a photo of the Iraqi captive looking battered and bruised.
According to the Red Cross, Iraqi prisoners were kept naked in dark empty cells at Baghdad’s Abu Ghraib prison, which is under US control.
It said male prisoners were forced to parade around in women’s underwear, and some unarmed prisoners were shot at from watchtowers.
Some of them were killed.
‘Un-American’
In a separate incident, nine men were rounded up in Basra and beaten severely, leading to one death.
The International Red Cross Committee’s director of operations Pierre Kraehenbuehl said “concerns and recommendations” had been made to British authorities, but declined to be specific about when or what issues were addressed.
A Ministry of Defence spokesman said the claims by the IRCC were contained in an interim report that dated back to before the British opened their own detention centre south of Basra.
On Friday US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld apologised for his troops’ “fundamentally un-American” abuse of Iraqi troops, and warned the most graphic pictures, and even filmed evidence, were still to come.
What makes these stories particularly damaging is that such acts are not the norm for British or American armies, but now that the pictures are out, that will become a moot point. Enitre US media is reporting on this 24hrs/day because the pictures are so shcoking. This type of stuff happens routinely in countries like Eqypt, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan, so it's not a big deal their, but for the US and Britian it is.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
What makes these stories particularly damaging is that such acts are not the norm for British or American armies, but now that the pictures are out, that will become a moot point. Enitre US media is reporting on this 24hrs/day because the pictures are so shcoking. This type of stuff happens routinely in countries like Eqypt, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan, so it's not a big deal their, but for the US and Britian it is.
[/QUOTE]
Sure, get me the pictures and I'll believe you that this is no biggie in Pakistan/Saudi Arabia/Egypt...that prisoners are made to simulate sex and humiliated naked. Dont just make sweeping statements without supporting specifics.
^ confetti i would`nt bother if i was you the world according to ima dad is that the sun shines out of George Bushes backside.
The amerikkkans have been torturing and abusing in every country they have been just look at last couple of years Afghanistan, Guantanamo Bay and Iraq only the sick and deranged can defend the amerikkkan behaviour !
What nation in there right mind would allow the amerikkkan forces into there land they would be signing there own capitulation and humiliation at the same time!