So Israel has no responsibility when she decides to lie about videos? How can we believe her about her other claims now that we know how low she's prepared to go? Once a lawyer, always a lawyer.
There are 2 sad things about this episode.
The American Guppies on this Forum trying to justify or defend their fellow trigger happy soldiers (talk about blinded) and
The weakness of all the Arab states who cannot even muster a word against the US and it's full of sh.. soldiers.
Other than that, not really surprised at the barbaric American way. It's just that this is the only one that's been caught on camera. I'm sure there's hundreds of Iraqi civilians, yes civilians and not insurgents who have lost their lives trying to defend their homeland in masjids, homes, shops, hospitals, offices and everywhere else.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
Aww, poor Dil.
Yes Dil, we are getting them all, every last one of them. Don't think we would hear the same sympathy from you if it was a Marine who was salughtered. You would launch into some crap about Palestine and Nagasaki, and American Indians, and root causes.
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Excuse me, but you are also quick to point out the 3 million in BD. So dont go around lecturing others.
We have not heard condemnation of this brutal act by the Americans, all they have been doing is trying to justify the cold blood murder committed by this coward. Now if it was the other way around we would have had over 100 posts demanding condmenation of this brutal act by muslims. Time for non muslims to stand up and be counted, or stop whining. Condemn what is wrong and brutal. But than as I read in a British newspaper (just so that you dont start on muslim media) about the killings of Iraqis "They go largely unreported in a world which counts dead American soldiers, but ignores fatalities among those with darker skins and browner eyes and a different religion, whom we have claimed to have liberated." [Independent newspaper]
Some of you guys seem to think this was some poor old innocent Iraqi gunned down in the street. Sorry, but he was an insurgent fighting against US and Iraqi troops trying to bring peace and stability to the country. The minute before he was initially wounded, he was happily gunning down US soldiers from his hidey hole.
The people gunning down the innocent Iraqis and executing them were this old guy's buddies and comrades in arms. For all we know, he himself used the Iraqi women and children as shields and shot one or two of them in the head before fleeing one of his other hidey holes. Shed some tears for the innocent women and children this guy killed or helped cause to die. He's not worth it.
Some of you guys seem to think you were right there when it happened!!
bottomline, he killed a wounded guy. why? because he was stressed. why? because the guy was breathing. can you go any lower to defend this piece of crap?
Read carefully those of you who are quick to judge:
Fallujah shooting ‘may be self-defence’
November 17, 2004 - 12:19PM
Protection of injured combatants once they are out of action was a basic rule of warfare, but the US Marine who shot and killed a wounded and apparently unarmed Iraqi in Fallujah may have acted in self-defence, international legal experts said.
Coalition forces in Iraq said the US military was investigating whether the Marine who shot the man in a mosque on Saturday “acted in self-defence, violated military law or failed to comply with the Law of Armed Conflict”.
The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), which upholds the Geneva Conventions on warfare, said it was up to US officials to determine what happened in this case and that self-defence was possible.
“It’s clearly recognised that people in combat situations are under enormous strain,” said ICRC spokesman Florian Westphal.
“Obviously, we were not on the spot so we cannot judge the precise circumstances of what was being shown here.”
But, Westphal said, the Geneva Conventions are clear: protection of wounded combatants once they are out of action is an absolute requirement.
The wounded man’s status as a prisoner - which would have put him out of action - was unclear.
A different Marine unit had come under fire from the mosque on Friday.
Those Marines stormed the building, killing 10 men and wounding five, according to Kevin Sites, a reporter for the US television network NBC who was embedded with the Marines 3rd Battalion, 1st Regiment.
Sites reported that the Marines treated the wounded, left them behind and continued on Friday with their drive to retake the city from insurgents battling US-led occupation forces.
The same five men were still in the mosque on Saturday when members of the 3rd Battalion, 1st Regiment arrived.
Westphal said he couldn’t say for sure from NBC’s account whether the man was a prisoner.
“The fact that was reported was that he was wounded. But whether he was already a prisoner or not was not clear to me,” he said.
Charles Heyman, a British infantry veteran and senior defence analyst with Jane’s Consultancy Group in London, defended the Marine. “In a combat infantry soldier’s training, he is always taught that his enemy is at his most dangerous when he is severely injured,” Heyman said There is the danger that the wounded enemy may try to “take one with you” with a hidden firearm or a grenade. If the man makes even the slightest move, Heyman added, “in my estimation they would be justified in shooting him”.
Westphal said the ICRC was unable to decide “because we simply do not know the circumstances”.
“Seeing these images or hearing about this kind of incident is very disturbing but the important thing now is that effectively the investigation is carried out and if someone is found responsible for a violation of the law, that this person be held accountable.”
But the video caused widespread concern.
“It is deeply harmful for the international coalition that is there to create democracy and respect,” Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen said.
“It is incredibly important that we are the first ones to respect human rights.”
Denmark is part of the US-led coalition and has 525 troops in southern Iraq.
Arab broadcaster Al-Jazeera showed the unabridged version of the video recorded by NBC, but there was no immediate comment from Middle Eastern governments because of a Muslim holiday.
Louise Arbour, the UN high commissioner for human rights, said: “All violations of international humanitarian law and human rights law must be investigated and those responsible for breaches - including the deliberate targeting of civilians, indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks, the killing of injured persons and the use of human shields - must be brought to justice, be they members of the multinational force or insurgents”.
US Lieutenant General John F Sattler, commanding general of the First Marine Expeditionary Force, said: "The facts of this case will be thoroughly pursued to make an informed decision and to protect the rights of all persons involved
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by myvoice: *
Some of you guys seem to think this was some poor old innocent Iraqi gunned down in the street. Sorry, but he was an insurgent fighting against US and Iraqi troops trying to bring peace and stability to the country. The minute before he was initially wounded, he was happily gunning down US soldiers from his hidey hole.
The people gunning down the innocent Iraqis and executing them were this old guy's buddies and comrades in arms. For all we know, he himself used the Iraqi women and children as shields and shot one or two of them in the head before fleeing one of his other hidey holes. Shed some tears for the innocent women and children this guy killed or helped cause to die. He's not worth it.
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How do you know he was a freedom fighter and not an innocent civilian who was injured? What makes you so sure? Shed some tears for the hundreds or maybe thousands of innocents killed by the gunships and B52's and the tanks. Isn't it a shame that the offensive was launched in the name of reclaiming the town back from the "foreign fighters". Yet according to the American army out of over 1200 fighters who have been arrested less than 20 or so are foreigners. Another lie bites the dust. Remember the war was fought on another lie, WMD. But hey wait, Falujjah is now infiltrated by over 12,000 foreign fighters. Who is going to reclaim the town from them and return it to its rightful owners.
Self Defence. What did he find strapped to the guy. A nuclear bomb!
The reality is that the Americans are animals at best and believe they are a law unto themselves. Too much John Wayne movies.
Instead of trying to find every excuse under the sun, just come clean and say we hate these black *******s and will do anything to wipe them out including black on black violence as a tool as well.
Fcuk me, how difficult can that be!
its abit hard to find any other reason when the marine yells ‘hes faking his ****ing death’ and then shoots him saying ‘well hes dead now’. 
Don’t think that people are going to roll over and play dead on this one:
This is from a web site that is largely anti-pentagon:
Be Most Careful in Judging This Marine
By Raymond Perry
The current media blitz on the shooting of an injured Iraqi insurgent by a Marine in Fallujah last Saturday highlights the current inability of the news media today to provide informed and accurate background to a story (for example, see “Military Investigates Shooting of Wounded Insurgent,” CNN.com, Tuesday, Nov. 16, 2004). It is of vast importance that in the initial coverage of a story of this kind that the media intelligently and accurately place this story in full context, but so far, this has not occurred.
First the Geneva Conventions impose limits on warfare to reduce unnecessary suffering and protect combatants and noncombatants alike. These conventions were written to constrain organized armed forces that are subservient to a sovereign and will obey organized laws.
In the present case in Iraq, the insurgents not only are not subservient to a sovereign but have made it eminently clear that they will not abide by any set of laws. They have chosen to exercise a level of inhumanity unseen since the Mongolian Hordes overran much of the known world. Just consider their kidnapping and likely murder of Iraqi civilian aid worker Margaret Hassan.
As an organized and humane nation, the United States nevertheless holds itself to these standards regardless of the opponent’s adherence or lack of it. This is not because of any threat of penalty of international law but because of what we think about ourselves as a free and courageous nation.
Second, the Geneva Conventions proscribe further destructive or injurious actions by individuals or formations when an opponent has become hors de combat. The alleged killing of an injured and apparently incapable insurgent by this one Marine is the crux of the issue.
What the media has ignored in the hullabaloo over this potentially criminal act and its videotaping is the obligation of the insurgent or the insurgent forces under that same international code.
The Geneva Conventions impose on those that become hors de combat the obligation to cease all combatant actions. The booby-trapping of insurgents’ bodies to cause injury or death to coalition soldiers is clearly in gross violation of these conventions. Similarly, the secreting of a weapon so that an injured insurgent may “take one more Marine with them” is equally in violation.
There is an obligation for the fourth estate and human rights organizations such as Amnesty International to understand the full scope of the Geneva Conventions and apply them equally to both sides. That it is enormously easier to tell only one side of the story is no excuse for effectively slanting the story and discredits these organizations.
Finally, the context in which these Marines or any other member of the armed forces of this nation operate must be effectively communicated. In this case, this Marine – like the other troops in Fallujah – was operating in a combat environment where he and others must make life-or-death decisions in a split-second.
The Iraqi insurgents, like their counterparts throughout the world, have themselves asserted the right to do whatever inhuman acts that appear to suit their cause. In the case of these young Marines in Fallujah, that means that they booby-trap bodies and conceal weapons for a final attempt to kill.
The crux of this issue is that if this one Marine, in his heart, saw something that he felt was a threat to him or his team, he was fully justified under the Geneva Conventions in acting as he did. In reviewing his actions, Marine Corps and Central Command officials must search for the full truth of what he was thinking in the minutes or seconds preceding the shooting.
In my experience, when a criminal acts, he shows certain characteristics. In this kind of case, it would be to isolate a victim followed by the act of demonstrating power over that victim. From what I have seen in the videotape excerpts, these elements were missing. The Marine acted immediately after entering the room and discovering the wounded insurgents.
Employing the ruse of injury to deceive our soldiers into coming within deadly range of a weapon is a patently illegal act. The insurgents have chosen this tactic and the news media must clearly provide “equal time” in news coverage to confirming the illegality of the insurgents’ choice. The acts taken by those such as this Marine to protect himself and his team must be viewed with this lens and no other.
When organizations such as Amnesty International do not seek to hold both sides of the conflict fully responsible for their part of adhering to the Geneva Conventions they are effectively advancing the interests of the favored side – the Iraqi insurgents who have already ignored the laws of war. In one recent online news article presenting Amnesty International’s assessment, it is clear that the group has chosen to ignore the responsibility of the insurgents to proscribe continued warlike acts by those that become hors de combat. In ignoring this key element, the human rights activists themselves lose credibility over this issue.
In a DefenseWatch article in August 2004 (“On the New Front Lines”), I wrote that the ongoing War on Terrorism will be partly won or lost as the sum of many, many small decisions by those Americans serving in law enforcement. In the same vein, our soldiers must feel that their decisions, taken in the split seconds of deadly combat, will be supported and defended. If we do not do this, they will slowly learn to avoid making them. This nation cannot allow such a self-defeating process to begin.
Since the Iraqi insurgents have chosen to attempt to continue combat actions after injury or even death, under the Geneva Conventions it is irrelevant that this particular insurgent was incapable of further action. By the previous actions of the group, the insurgents have given up those protections.
Injured insurgents must now be proven, one by one and with great care, to harbor neither intent nor capability of inflicting injury to our soldiers. Until that is proven, our soldiers are fully justified in reacting instinctively to perceived threatening acts of whatever nature.
Based on a careful reading of press accounts thus far, I believe that this nation must find it in its heart to sustain this young Marine’s decision as it stands, unless officials investigating the incident can confirm a clear case of criminal intent on the Marine’s part.
It is of equal importance that the news media learn to understand the whole of the issue – in particular the severe choices confronting this one Marine – and fully and intelligently inform the American people of the full context of this tragic incident.
Finally, it is incumbent on the rest of us to take with a grain of salt – or where appropriate, ignore altogether – those international organizations that do not equably apply the Geneva Conventions to both sides in the bitter Iraqi conflict.
http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=DefenseWatch.db&command=viewone&op=t&id=693&rnd=800.751880024037
OG:
You should have highlighted this part of the article
**"Since the Iraqi insurgents have chosen to attempt to continue combat actions after injury or even death, under the Geneva Conventions it is irrelevant that this particular insurgent was incapable of further action. By the previous actions of the group, the insurgents have given up those protections.
Injured insurgents must now be proven, one by one and with great care, to harbor neither intent nor capability of inflicting injury to our soldiers. Until that is proven, our soldiers are fully justified in reacting instinctively to perceived threatening acts of whatever nature.
Based on a careful reading of press accounts thus far, I believe that this nation must find it in its heart to sustain this young Marine’s decision as it stands, unless officials investigating the incident can confirm a clear case of criminal intent on the Marine’s part.
It is of equal importance that the news media learn to understand the whole of the issue – in particular the severe choices confronting this one Marine – and fully and intelligently inform the American people of the full context of this tragic incident.
Finally, it is incumbent on the rest of us to take with a grain of salt – or where appropriate, ignore altogether – those international organizations that do not equably apply the Geneva Conventions to both sides in the bitter Iraqi conflict. " **
I couldn't have said it better myself. It's not the shooter in this case who is the known piece of cr*p. It is the shootee that belongs to that class of offal. You jihadis ought to go back to applauding your heores for beheading innocent people and executing their human shields rather than try to make this "poor old terrorist thug" a cause celebre.
para 4 reeks of 'orse ****.
I was getting to the original Geneva document for that MV.
Here it is:
Article 41.-Safeguard of an enemy hors de combat
- A person who is recognized or who, in the circumstances, should be recognized to be hors de combat shall not be made the object of attack.
- A person is hors de combat if:
(a) He is in the power of an adverse Party;
(b) He clearly expresses an intention to surrender; or
(c) He has been rendered unconscious or is otherwise incapacitated by wounds or sickness, and therefore is incapable of defending himself;
**provided that in any of these cases he abstains from any hostile act and does not attempt to escape. **
http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/93.htm
Since the unit that this soldier was in had a marine KILLED the previous day by a booby trapped body, this marine would have good reason to question movement, as even the simple act of rolling over can remove enough wieght from a grenade to cause it to go off.
4 pages of crocodile tears for this terrorist thug using a mosque as his fortress, and scant few posts for the executed aid worker who gave her whole life to help the Iraqi people. So please, no more requests for condemnations from Americans until you acknowledge the barbarity that is this "resistance" movement.
The spin continues. 
amazing how far they'll got to defend the marine. I dont think credibility worries them at all.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Seminole: *
What exactly are the effects of this "totalitarian" occupation? This one incident or the others that you hope will come out? Do you even know what totalitarian means? The marines are fighting against those who want to continue a totalitarian regime - an ideology that aims to control the religious, social and political life in all its aspects. The US is fighting to allow the Iraqis a chance at their own government. Going after those who are killing from mosques and preventing a centralized Iraqi government from forming to allow free elections is a fight against totalitarianism.
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**Totalitarian* *adj 1: characterized by a government in which the political authority exercises absolute and centralized control; "a totalitarian regime crushes all autonomous institutions in its drive to seize the human soul"- Arthur M.Schlesinger, Jr. 2: of or relating to the principles of totalitarianism according to which the state regulates every realm of life; "totalitarian theory and practice"; "operating in a totalistic fashion" *
Sounds very much like the US Adminstrations Puppet regime in Iraq!! and its military occupation of Iraqs towns and cities subjagating millions of Iraqis at gunpoint, by bombing towns and cities into submission, by quelling nationalism, by preventing political opposition to the US occupation and creating division amongst Iraqis i.e Kurds, sunnis and Shias. I think the term TOTALITARIAN can be used to describe the current occupation. Incidentally the US has supported totalitarian regimes in the past and will continue to do so in the future.
"characterized by a government in which the political authority exercises absolute and centralized control"
Yup, thats why the "totalitarian central government" in Aghanistan had elections. So pray tell me, how did the "Mayor of Kabul" influence so many voters to vote for him?
History shows, Japan, Gernmany, and now Afghanistan, that the US does not retain dominion, but supports a vibrant government, then leaves.
LOL!! I suppose in your books the Mayor of Kabul's re-election is a triumph for US foreign policy :D. You also forgot to mention many analysts call Karzai the President of Kabul not the President of Afghanistan. And dont forget that the US is still occupying Afghanistan albeit with other nations assistance.
Btw, the killing of thousands of civilians, destruction of much of the infrastructure in the towns and cities, like what we have seen in Fallujah, preventing innocent people to seek shelter from the thousands of bombs and missiles raining on their homes, that is definitiely the hallmarks of a vibrant Government US style, a classic example for Totalitarian rule i.e destroy your main opposition and than call for elections thereby guaranteeing your man in office.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by myvoice: *
US and Iraqi troops trying to bring peace and stability to the country.
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Please move post to joke forum.
FYI, these so called insurgents as they are so conveniently termed, are not trained soldiers. Most of them are just civilian men defending their families and homeland.