Tum vs Aap

[muqawwee123]

Re: Tum vs Aap

^ Even I'd thought about this. Why is that?

tu / tum shows qurbat.. When you meet a stranger you first call him / her as aap, but after knowing the person aap become tum....

waise iss pe ik ghazal bhi hai....

Rafta Rafta wo mere hasti ka saman ho gae

[KKF]

Re: Tum vs Aap

Hum tumhari hi ibaadat karte hain aur tum hi se mangte hain.

i don't think so...i found it as:

ham terii hii ibaadat karte haiN aur tujh se hii madad maangte haiN...

...yeh tarjuma hamesha maiN ne dekhaa hai.
**
did you notice that it's always AAP that is used for the Prophet [saws]...never tum, tu, teraa, tujh etc.**

[TLK]

@KKF:10056946

[quote="“muqawwee123, post:65, topic:316337"”]

have you people noticed that in almost all tafaseer e Quran, God is referred as ‘tu’ / ‘tum’? Aap shows some distance.

never TUM, always TU is used in tafaaseers and in du’aas.

AAP is also not used.

TU is also used to show ‘LOVE’.
[/quote]

TU is not used to show love. It’s used to solidify the belief of Oneness. Tum and Aap can be used in plural sense, Tu can never be used in plural hence mufassir used it in Tafaaseer as a precaution

[muqawwee123]

Re: Tum vs Aap

Tum.. alone can't be used as plural. It needs some additional reference like tum log.. tum Pakistani... etc.

[TLK]

Not true. If I say that "main tum se mukhatib hoon" that it could mean a group or a single person.

[Deeba1234]

Re: Tum vs Aap

@KKF

in our culture, it’s a funny thing. men call their wives ‘TUM’ while invariably women call 'their husbands ‘AAP’.

Someone once told me it’s because they view the husband and wife relationship like a teacher and student..

But you’re not laying in bed with the teacher every night, are you

[muqawwee123]

Re: Tum vs Aap

'main tum se mukhatib hoon' sounds that you are talking to one person. Main 'tum logon se mukhatib hoon' sounds that you are talking to a group.

[Microbian]

@TLK:10056971

Not true. If I say that “main tum se mukhatib hoon” that it could mean a group or a single person.

Mein tum logon sy mukhatib hun (plural)
Tum ziada chalak mat bano (singular)
Tum kahan ja rahy ho? (singular)
Kia tum log aj sair ko jao gy? (plural)

[muqawwee123]

Re: Tum vs Aap

@KKF

i don’t think so…i found it as:

ham terii hii ibaadat karte haiN aur tujh se hii madad maangte haiN…

…yeh tarjuma hamesha maiN ne dekhaa hai.
**
did you notice that it’s always AAP that is used for the Prophet [saws]…never tum, tu, teraa, tujh etc.**

But when God refers to the Prophet its ‘Tum’

Surat At-Tahrim [66:1] - The Noble Qur’an - ??? ???

اے پیغمبر جو چیز خدا نے تمہارے لئے جائز کی ہے** تم** اس سے کنارہ کشی کیوں کرتے ہو؟ (کیا اس سے) اپنی بیویوں کی خوشنودی چاہتے ہو؟ اور خدا بخشنے والا مہربان ہے

[Microbian]

@muqawwee123:10056976

‘main tum se mukhatib hoon’ sounds that you are talking to one person. Main ‘tum logon se mukhatib hoon’ sounds that you are talking to a group.

I think tum alone is singular

[TLK]

If you're standing in front of a group and say that ...

Well anyways, believe me that intention of tu was to solidify oneness without confusing the reader whether the author is talking about one entity or a group. Check with am aalim on that.

[KKF]

Re: Tum vs Aap

i don't think so TLK, Tu [depending on who you speaking to] shows 'love with respect' in reference to Allah.

yeh zabaan o bayaan kii baareekiyaaN haiN TLK ... is meN nihaayat Khafeef saa hii farq hotaa hai.

we used word 'TU' for little kids who is very dear to us.

tu bahot shareer ho gaii hai...this is a statement of love here.

[TLK]

So why dont we use Tu for prophet?

Are you implying that Allah is like a little kid for us?

[muqawwee123]

Re: Tum vs Aap

@TLK

So why dont we use Tu for prophet?

Are you implying that Allah is like a little kid for us?

TLK Bhai. Have you listened to Muzaffar Warsi’s famous naat : Tu ameer e haram, main faqeer ajam?

Tu Ameer-E-Haram - Alhaaj Khursheed Ahmed - YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3q5oIOTzlI)

[khoji]

Re: Tum vs Aap

'main tum se mukhatib hoon' sounds that you are talking to one person. Main 'tum logon se mukhatib hoon' sounds that you are talking to a group.

TLK is correct, bro. Tu is used for Allah to emphasize Oneness.

And the addressee in the sentence 'mein tum se mukhatib hoon', could be one or more. Again, 'tum logon' will be used here for emphasis on 'you people' (not 'any other people').

[waleedhbk]

Re: Tum vs Aap

@Jolie

One thing I really admire about Urdu is that it’s the language of manners and courtesy, and our whole cultural and lingual emphasis on using the word app as the principal way of addressing people. This essentially reinforces Urdu’s reputation as the language of adab.

I know French have their own tum and app in terms of tu (informal you) and *vous *(formal you), and this is pretty much one of the very first basics of French language you are taught. Same is the case with Punjabi - we have tu/tenu (informal you) and *tussi/tuada/tuanu *(formal you).

I really appreciate how Pakistanis are such dedicated and stylish users of the word ‘app’, and in my view the word alone makes the whole conversation sound so sophisticated and pleasant on the ears, plus the speaker comes across so effortlessly cultured.

When it comes to Urdu, I am personally incapable of speaking in terms of tu/tum/tera. Mainly because I am a naturally reluctant, if not visibly shy speaker of the language, hence I find it difficult to get so instantly and permanently frank with people. Secondly, another part of the reason would be thatI wasn’t taught that kind of Urdu, since all my life I have spoken Urdu mainly to communicate with people who are lot older than me. So in a nutshell, all that blazing flamboyance of a spirited age goes out the window when I converse in Urdu. Not that I’m complaining.

Are you folks concious and selective users of the word *‘app’? Have you ever managed to raise eyebrows or raised eyebrows yourself over ‘tum vs aap’ mix up? I can personally tell a lot about a man by just looking at the way he refers to a woman. My advice would be to stick to the word ‘aap’ *unless you fancy seeing the ‘excuse me?’ look in a woman’s eyes. I have given this look, I should know about this.

AP ki yeh wali thread bhut achi hai

[muqawwee123]

Re: Tum vs Aap

TLK is correct, bro. Tu is used for Allah to emphasize Oneness.

And the addressee in the sentence 'mein tum se mukhatib hoon', could be one or more. Again, 'tum logon' will be used here for emphasis on 'you people' (not 'any other people').

I think TLK's point about emphasising Oneness is correct, but we can't shun the psychological impact of 'tu' to show closeness. Besides, Urdu grammar is different from Arabic. Even our masculine and feminine don't matches in things like Zameen o Aaasman. Aasman (Sama) is feminine in Arabic.

[Jolie]

Re: Tum vs Aap

I agree with TLK's explanation, the usage of the word 'tu' does effectively compliment the belief in Oneness of Allah, and this is supported by rules of Urdu grammar as well. I would really take that as a fundamental reason, but of course you can add as many other additional reasons as you like, explaining how 'tu' also highlights the idea of extreme closeness and directness.

[mahool]

Re: Tum vs Aap

@Le_Pakistan

:k:

Btw, in Punjabi ‘tui’ means ‘butt/buttocks’

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BHy-lO75IY

What is Tooh?

[Harappan]

Re: Tum vs Aap

Urdu is way too formal & uptight for my liking.