Torture/waterboarding in the Grave Question.

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Hey guys, urgent question.

A prehistoric neanderthal died in the ice age and didn’t get burried - his fossils are found - would that neanderthal also anticipate this qabar da azzaaab?

note:
He doesn’t speak Arabic. (arabic probably came after a few million years)
He doesn’t speak at all, only Grunts.
He isn’t even human.

p.s. neanderthals are real. Fossils galore on google, plus your local science museum are places of reference. Just curious, what is the take here on the matter.

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Re: Torture/waterboarding in the Grave Question.

Peace Dr. LuLworth

Urgent question? ... LOL Is it urgent because you would like to inform your Neanderthal buddy what his fate is in the grave or do you think it is about time that "prehistoric Neanderthals" (As if there are any other variety ... oh I just realised ... there must be ... read on) learn about their waterboarding chances?

I say if it has waited this long for you to ask this question then it is not really that urgent at all ... Unless of course you have recently been diagnosed with a terminal disease, in which case it makes sense why you want to know about what happens to Neanderthals when they die ...

My advice to you is ... learn Arabic, stop grunting and act human ...

As a serious answer to your question:

No if such animals existed before Adam (AS) then they are animals without "reason" and without the ability to be "rational" and use their capacities to overcome their "instincts" and hence will not be judged as a people are judged for their "decisions" and hence will not be given the "chance to enter paradise with the threat of going to hell" because it would be "unjust" to do so and God is not unjust.

I also think your keyboard needs changing your letter 'a' and 'z' seem to be sticking.

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Re: Torture/waterboarding in the Grave Question.

Why is it so urgent. Someone you know died hundreds of thousand years ago which makes you worried?

Joke aside:

You said those were not even human. So why worry about them?

How do we even know these so called sub-species existed hundreds of thousand years ago.

Nothing is final in science and placing all bets on science is not what smart people would do.

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Re: Torture/waterboarding in the Grave Question.

Not even close !!! LOL :)

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Re: Torture/waterboarding in the Grave Question.

you are gonna ask evolution-denying blind-faithwalay about neanderthals? good luck with that..

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Re: Torture/waterboarding in the Grave Question.

Peace queer

Exactly ... how silly can someone be? Of course knowing our biased opinions and expecting some sort of decent answer to his very reasonable question only proves his foolishness ... He should have asked you this question!

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Re: Torture/waterboarding in the Grave Question.

Blind faith?

What difference is in between those who believe on something which happened thousands of years ago according to science .....and those who believe on scripture?

One group says they believe on science, other says they believe on God/Religious books. That's all.

Few skull/skeleton pictures by some scientists are proof of exactly what happened thousand years ago? Really?

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Re: Torture/waterboarding in the Grave Question.

lol@few skulls/skeleton.

i suggest you pick up a book on what the scientific method is, diwana. iqra. ;) :D

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Re: Torture/waterboarding in the Grave Question.

You degrade Islam; Islam and science are one. Anyways, people who believe in science believe in evidence. And I will be much obliged if a Christian can give me any evidence that the Earth is 6000 years old. I, on the other hand can give lots of evidence that the Earth is 4+ Billion years old.

I talk about Christianity because nothing in Islam contradicts with science.

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Re: Torture/waterboarding in the Grave Question.

The similarity is that they both are beliefs.

One is religious belief with its own evidences, other is scientific BELIEF with its own set of evidences.

Not every scientist believes in so called scientific theories.

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Re: Torture/waterboarding in the Grave Question.

Ahan? show me ONE credible scientist who says the Earth is 6000 years old.

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Re: Torture/waterboarding in the Grave Question.

How does that matter to discussion? It is a silly question.

I hope the urgency of OP is over.

No need to worry about someone who is not even considered human. :)

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Re: Torture/waterboarding in the Grave Question.

umm so you are that worried about your neanderthal friend/ancestor whatever that it makes this question SO urgent? :smack:

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Re: Torture/waterboarding in the Grave Question.

You said:

[QUOTE]
One is religious belief with its own evidences, other is scientific BELIEF with its own set of evidences.

Not every scientist believes in so called scientific theories.
[/QUOTE]

So I asked you to back up your claim and show me a scientist who said that the Earth was 6000 years old or any credible scientist who disagreed with major theories.

[QUOTE]
No need to worry about someone who is not even considered human. :)
[/QUOTE]

Neanderthals were human. Just like Bengal Tigers and White Tigers are different, but tigers none the less.

Diwana, methinks you are a Neanderthal :p

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Re: Torture/waterboarding in the Grave Question.

Peace IceSoul

I'm going to state something now that I have been avoiding because it will perplex you and I don't want to do that to people. However we need to realise how useless we are when it comes to the determination of time.

I'm not saying this is what I believe, but I am however saying that science cannot provide us "facts" it can just provide us a bearing of some sort of understanding. Let me give you are scenario:

Now on MS Word I can create a document and I can number the pages ... The logic of the page numbering system in Word is that each consecutive page adds 1 to the previous page. However, I can choose to start the page numbering from 12 ... so the first page is 12, the second is 13, third is 14 and so on ... Now I print off page 25 - 28 as a double sided print out so I have 2 leaves of text printed on both sides ... Now let's say I give this print out to a person who reads the words but then asks me about the first 24 pages that I did not give him ...

He has made the obvious error and that error is that using the pattern of pages in his hands to predict the pattern of pages that came before. He has made the assumption that not only is there a page 24, 23 and 22 but also that the page numbering sequence starts from 1.

Such is the case with dating in science. There is nothing to stop Allah (SWT) to have Created the Universe and placed all objects in a balanced arrangement and then Started the Machine with it's pre-programmed parameters of the physical rules that we model today in physics. We get so caught up on what it happening we assume that we know what happened. This is an important lesson to learn and understand.

However, we can indeed use such models of our prediction to arrive as a sense of what could have happened and then we look to scripture and see if a deeper understanding of it can be obtained ...

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Re: Torture/waterboarding in the Grave Question.

Sheesh … learn the subject that you support please … IU Indianapolis - Your First Step to Your Ideal Future - Bring On Tomorrow Origins Chart.htm

According to this Neanderthals are alleged as the evolutionary sibling of humans … they are not humans … humans are homo sapiens … the bengal and white are the same animal in fact white tigers are type of bengal tiger they are called a “colour morph” just like a panther is a type of leopard which is all black … not only are various tigers in the world part of the same sub species (Panthera Tigris) the difference between Bengal and White is even less than that they are the SAME subspecies … they just have a special phenotype - like blue-eyed people for example …

Neanderthals are commonly recognised as a different species to humans … they are not a colour morph and not a subspecies either … they are not believed to have been able to intermix with humans and the chances of hybridization to 1 generation between the two are quite slim as well - in which case the differences between a donkey and a horse is less than the difference between a human and a neanderthal … learn your subject please !!!

P.S. Get off that darn History Channel

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Re: Torture/waterboarding in the Grave Question.

http://www.dailytech.com/Neanderthal+Sex+Gave+Europeans+and+Asians+Stronger+Immune+Systems/article22555.htm

http://news.discovery.com/human/neanderthals-interbreeding-humans-110825.html

Same to you sir, learn your subject!

Secondly, I was trying to illlustrate the point that neanderthals are closely related to humans. However, thanks for pointing out my mistake.

Neanderthals were members of the genus Homo (lol) as are we. I realize that a better analogy will be that of a Lion and a Tiger, both members of the genus *Panthera.
*

For a general estimate of the intelligence of the Neanderthals, read these articles:**
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Neanderthals-were-too-smart-to-survive-15264.shtml
**
http://news.discovery.com/history/neanderthals-more-intelligent-than-thought.html

They were as *Human *as we are.

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Re: Torture/waterboarding in the Grave Question.

You know, Richard Dawkins, in his book, "The Greatest Show on Earth" discussed something like this. When explaining why Evolution is still called a theory (as are all scientific theories), he said that no matter ho idiotic it seems, there is still the possibility *that the Universe and we all came into existence 10 seconds ago with *programmed memories. At that time, I didn't think anyone would stoop so low to deny the obvious, but lo and behold! I see a man who does exactly that!

I won't even bother explaining Radioactive Dating to you because you will just say that it was "already programmed".

If this had come from someone else, that would be another thing, but coming from an mature, intelligent person like yourself, I'm genuinely disappointed... :(

BTW, with your own reasoning, it isn't difficult for Allah SWT to make things evolve, is it?

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Re: Torture/waterboarding in the Grave Question.

Peace IceSoul

Either Neanderthals are human or they are not … if there is evidence that they interbred then they were just a tribe of humans sons and daughters of Adam and Eve that have since died out … if the assertion is that they are something different I reject that they can interbreed with us … … and going by the research on the “neanderthal genome” I think it is quite frankly a joke … how the genome of something so old can be reconstructed without error is beyond me … this is from the site your provided …

***The project is a very difficult one. Over 97 percent of the sample DNA is bacterial and fungal DNA and must be painstakingly removed. Meanwhile researchers must avoid contaminating the samples with their own DNA. Researchers have been building a genome billions of base pairs long, using fragments 40 to 50 base pairs in length. Describes Pääbo, “We used half a gram of bones to produce the 3 billion base pairs. I really thought until six or seven years ago that it would remain impossible, at least for my lifetime, to sequence the entire genome.”

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Re: Torture/waterboarding in the Grave Question.

http://dnaresearch.oxfordjournals.org/content/16/1/45.full

These are all journal sites that feature the issue of DNA decay in various living things and their derivative materials … It is obvious that to ID things beyond several thousand years are near impossible … yet this website featuring evolutionists propaganda seems to be against these sources …