The parallels Pinduu Ali tried to paste have a lot of justification.
Yes the Arabs and Muslims do feel a sense of satisfaction when Americans are killed. And that's where it stops. The praise is given to God, knowing that this was ordained to the enemies of Islam.
However, when Americans are killed, the whole world is reminded and whole communities are bombed or punished with real violence in response. Even then the Americans are not satisfied with the response and want more revenge. And all praise is given to the President of US for ordaining such a response to the enemies of the West.
Furthermore, look at the amount of hoo haa is made on the abuse of the Iraqis. But what amount of hoo haa is made upon the deaths of these Iraqis. Not a lot!
What is more valuable. The lives of the Iraqis, or their humiliation?
Where were all the apologies and outcries, when thousands and thousands were being killed day in and day out?
So if you want to draw comparisons and praises, look into your backyard first.
I like the cartoon, there is a lot of sense to it.
The problem with this whole affair is that it will indeed be repaired. I had a personal check list. Open investigation. Criminal prosecution if called for. Go all the way up the chain of command. Apologize. Hold hearings. Compensate the victims. Vow never to do it again. So far, all of my expectations have been met. We shall see.
But, whether this turns out to be a scattered instance, or something wider, the damage to the world image of the US will be done. The only saving grace to this is that we will perhaps take a good look at ourselves, and demonstrate the strengths of a democracy under crisis.
And, by the way, I happen to like Rumsfeld. It takes a tough independent SOB to run the Pentagon, it's like hearding cats. He has been the centerpiece of the War on Terror, and results being what they are, there has been no further attack on the US since 9/11. That deserves some credit. Rumsfeld took the gloves off, some jokers have interpreted that as an excuse for a bare fisted fight, and went crazy.
I just don't understand one thing. If America and the west is the enemies of Islam, what the fk are muslims doing here? Wouldn't it be better if muslims left this bad and evil place and moved to arabia or whereever such religoius paradox is not possible. Then we can actually have a real war of civilizations. Atleast we would know that we are the enemies of Islam and muslims feel this way.
You are complaining that more media attention is given to American deaths and not Iraqi deaths. You want the names of the killed printed in the nYTImes. I think the muslims should do a collection at the mosques for 3 fridays in a row across the world and use the proceeds to buy CNN, that will show the americans.
The hoohaa is made for the iraqi humiliation because it is not according to the standard conduct of Americans or their military. That is why the hue and cry...it is shaming..when we get shamed we don;t deny what happened we find out who did it and mete out justice to clear our name. (something that you might want to look into)
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RF: You will never understand what being an American means until you remove the mullahs hand from your own A$$.
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You must be joking? Having the sense of justice and the ability to criticize is what differentiate me from you. I have defended all non Pakistanis (including you), when the point is justified.
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So what if your friends are members of DAR and they protest the war. It is their right. No one ever argued that they didn't? What is your point? ANd just because some one who is naturalized and has brown skin, he/she cannot agree with the War?What kind of logic is that? Only the mayflower progeny has the right to have opinions?And you ofcourse?
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No go ahead and agree. Just standby the Republican guard err the US military when things go bad. Defend them to the hilt, spin some propoganda. Don't try to sidestep it. Up till now I'd say hey I'll give you the benefit of doubt since you were speaking just as an American..but if you want to attach yourself to the administration, then be ready to have fingers pointed.
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Us is not involved in an illegal war. How come you weren;t shouting fro rafters when muslims were being saved in Kosovo? That was preemptive action as well, on far less tangible terms than this war.
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That is a non-sequiter. The issue here isnt all foriegn wars, its about the Iraq war. So you go in there unilaterally on the slimmest of evidence, create a regime..ok, thats all in the past, done with. Now your humiliating and murdering Iraqis, all you need to do nuke Najaf and Kufa to finish the job.. Yea those Shiites were expected to love you, too bad siht is going wrong all over the place.
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I am not even gonna comment on your last piece, it makes less sense than the rest of your post. **
Then dont. In fact it was you who got hot and bothered when I was commenting on Imdads blatent @$$ kissing. If you cannot comprehend that either, then it becomes your problem, not mine.
You've finally hit the nail on the head. It's a damage limitation excercise. The abuses have been ongoing since the beginning of the War. You knew it was ongoing, but decided to turn a blind eye. Amnesty International and the Red Cross confirm this. Even Iraqis confirm this. For frigs sake.
The philosophy should be changed to 'what you don't see, doesn't hurt'.
Yes you are right, muslims should go back to the Islamic countries and the Americans should get out of the Middle East ( the tax free employee ex pats) and all come back home. Just in case you forgot, it's a two way ticket and not a one way enclosure. It works both ways.
At least I can give you credit for speaking out loud the words so many of your compadres refuse to acknowledge. i.e. certain Muslims view America as the enemy of Islam and thus God is to be praised when Muslims kill Americans. Stated differently, it is Islam as a religion which justifies killing Americans.
I must surmise then that you are not offended when we refer to “Muslim terrorists.” You actually should be quite proud since God should be praised for each killing.
You are to be credited again for acknowledging that the West doesn’t view it as God’s work when they kill Muslims. Rather, praise is given to the secular leader of our country for responding to the killing of Americans.
Your words and picture ought to be used as a recruitment poster for our war on terror. :k:
The Muslims always perceive any action as God's will, where Americans will always perceive any action as mans will (except the practising Christians and Jews). They will agree with the Muslims standpoint, but in their own favour.
The difference in my comments was that we keep God as God, whereover most Americans make the President into god?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sholay: *
The Muslims always perceive any action as God's will,
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I've got to go change my vote on the Rumsfeld resignation poll. It certainly must have been God's will for those naked Iraqi prisoners to be forced to masturbate in front of each other. Praise is due for the performance of God's will. Rumsfeld obviously has nothing to do with it.
Heck. I sort of like this type of thinking. Why do you blame America for anything at all if every action is God's will? It's his/her friggin fault.
US soldiers abused 12 year old girl in Iraqi prison
‘US soldiers abused young girl at Iraqi prison’
Mr al-Baz was arrested when reporting clashes between insurgents and coalition forces in November.
He said: "They brought a 12-year-old girl into our cellblock late at night. Her brother was a prisoner in the other cells.
"She was naked and screaming and calling out to him as they beat her. Her brother was helpless and could only hear her cries. This affected all of us because she was just a child.
Looks like script straight from Osama-Bin-Ladin studio… Something Osama wanted to show the islamic world… Amreeka has done a great favor to Osama, he must be turning in his cave.
Red Cross saw “widespread abuse” in Iraq 15:46, May 7 2004
By Richard Waddington
GENEVA (Reuters) - Iraqi detainees were subjected to “serious violations”, with abuse so widespread it may have been condoned by U.S.-led coalition forces, the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) says.
Breaking with its usual vow of silence, the Geneva-based humanitarian organisation on Friday said visits to coalition detention centres in Iraq, carried out between March and November 2003, had shown infringements of international treaties on the treatment of prisoners of war.
In some cases, the ill-treatment was “tantamount to torture,” particularly when interrogators were seeking information or confessions, the ICRC said in a report, parts of which were published in U.S. financial daily the Wall Street Journal.
Pierre Kraehenbuehl, director of ICRC operations, confirmed the contents of the report at a news conference but said the Red Cross, whose reports are confidential, would not issue the rest of the document.
He said the report referred mainly to the actions of U.S. forces at Baghdad’s notorious Abu Ghraib prison and elsewhere, although the ICRC had also expressed concerns over the past year to British commanders. He gave no further details.
“Our findings do not allow us to conclude that what we were dealing with at Abu Ghraib were isolated acts of individual members of coalition forces. What we have described is a pattern and a broad system,” he said.
Pictures of grinning U.S. soldiers abusing naked Iraqis at Abu Ghraib – the largest prison in the country and notorious for torture under Iraqi President Saddam Hussein – have sparked an international outcry.
The excerpts published by the Wall Street Journal spoke of the use of ill-treatment that “went beyond exceptional cases and might be considered a practice tolerated” by coalition forces.
That differs sharply from the view of senior officials in the Bush administration that military higher-ups had not condoned abuse, the newspaper said.
In the report, the ICRC said prisoners at Abu Ghraib were held naked in empty cells and beaten by soldiers. Three former military policemen at the prison told Reuters on Thursday that abuse was commonplace.
The humanitarian group also said coalition forces fired on unarmed prisoners from watchtowers and killed some of them, as well as committing “serious violations” of the Geneva Conventions governing treatment of war prisoners.
The Red Cross said on Thursday it had repeatedly urged the United States to take “corrective action” at the jail.
Absolutely sick.
Whats worse are the things that are likley happening that are'nt coming to public attention. I have read widespred reports of photographs that were confiscated from soldiers leaving Iraq several months ago that were FAR more horrific than those that were released to the media.
Anybody who digs around on the internet, especially European news sources can read the allegations themselves.
Some absolutely sick shyte going on in this world.
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*Originally posted by underthedome: *
Very sick, the pics/videos will come out and those barbaric animals who took part will be hunted down and brought to justice.
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It's hillarious to see Bush apologizing to King Abdullah...
US forces abusing old people, women and now children including making girls of 12 run around naked.
I am now waiting for news of disabled iraqis being tortured by amerikcans there no limit of depravity for these occupiers.
Seeing the families of some of these Americans i won`t call them soldiers because they are cowards, the families are saying on the TV buck and bill would never do such a thing they are such nice people, Amerikkka has been torturing and killing for decades only now you seem shocked! The fake apologies do not fool anyone because these kinds of practices will continue as we all know!
POINTING crudely at the genitals of a naked, hooded Iraqi, the petite brunette with a cigarette hanging from her lips epitomised America’s shame over revelations US soldiers routinely tortured inmates at Abu Ghraib jail near Baghdad.
Lynndie England, 21, a rail worker’s daughter, comes from a trailer park in Fort Ashby, West Virginia, which locals proudly call “a backwoods world”.
She faces a court martial, but at home she is toasted as a hero.
** At the dingy Corner Club Saloon they think she has done nothing wrong.
“A lot of people here think they ought to just blow up the whole of Iraq,” Colleen Kesner said.
"To the country boys here, if you’re a different nationality, a different race, you’re sub-human. That’s the way girls like Lynndie are raised.
“Tormenting Iraqis, in her mind, would be no different from shooting a turkey. Every season here you’re hunting something. Over there, they’re hunting Iraqis.” **