Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
^ really? I thought making something farz was only Allah's domain.
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
how is that even relevant in this discussion?
P.S. some did earlier, but shaved em to fit in better
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
which scholar of islam says that the prophet can make something farz?
which school of fiqh says that the prophet can make a farz?
and dont give me sunnat e mokida and wajib and what nots, they ahve diff names and not farz because they are not farz and would never be farz unless Allah commands it.
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
Sadiyah, lets assume that the bard has to be atleast a fist length AND that the mustache needs to be trimmed.
so now whether you have a goatie, you have a nice trimmed beard wich does not meet the guidance on length, or you have a thick mustache .. which btw majority f ppl with beards have in tandem with the beard.
How is that any better or any worse than a 5 o clock shadow. I see no difference. Either you are following the sunnah or you are not. This lame ass halfway effort makes no sense.
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
Prophet(saws) is the Messenger of Allah. Whatever he says is by the grace and will of Allah. There is a verse stating this, but I cant find it right now.
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
People do all sort of stupid things. They dont affect the islamic rulings in any way. As far as the LENGTH of the beard is concerned, there is a difference of opinion as has been elaborated on this wonderful ahl-e-sunna-wa’al jamaa’ site: http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/beard.htm. The same article summarizes that that keeping the beard is obligatory (wajib in Hanafi - madhab)
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
so then why is there a difference between sunnah and farz, it should all be farz right?
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
No, the Prophet(saws) married more than 4 wives. This is neither permissible, and certainly not farz for us, but still a part of the Sunnah (where Sunnah = Prophetic way of life). This was en exception give to him by Allah in the Quran itself.
The Prophet(saws) prayed Salat al-Tahajjud as this was obligatory for him, but not for us.
Some examples.
What has been made Sunna Ghayr-Muakkada, Sunnah Muakkada, Wajib, Farz (for 3of the 4 schools wajib = farz) is determined by the scholars by looking at the Prophetic commands and his Sunnah (as in his way of living) extracted from the Hadith-literature.
The beard for instance is a prophetic command as was mentioned.
Put short.
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
The beard was not a Prophetic Command. There is no such thing as Prophetic Commands in Islam. The prophet was a messenger and he conveyed God's message to us. He didn't make up his own rules and then force everyone to follow them. But where God didn't make a commandment, and the Prophet chose to do things in a certain way, that was his choice. In no way is everyone mandated to follow those actions, although it is recommended to study them at least and apply then when applicable. THAT my friend, is the real definition of Sunnah.
By saying the Prophet Commanded so and so, when God didn't, you're accepting the Prophet as a demi-god.
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
..and it still is not a farz..
wajib is wajib, farz is farz, if wajib was farz then it would be called a farz.
thats the whole point, if it was such a major must do then it would have been mentioned in quran with additional guidance from the prophet.
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
It’s surprising to me that you choose to accept the Quran unconditionally but not the Sunnah, because the source of both is the same man.
Wajib and Fard are the same thing, which scholar says that the two are different?
I did a quick search and found a translation of Imam Shafi’s book, these excerpts are entitled “An obligation to accept the authority of the Prophet”
http://islaam.com/Article.aspx?id=204
If you don’t want to read that then at least read this brief article on “Following the Messenger is a must”
http://islaam.com/Article.aspx?id=239
So, I originally asked YOU a question which you didn’t answer.
Can you provide some references for saying that the Prophet was not given any authority by Allah?
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
That's a pretty stupid argument.
Fard and Wajib are the same thing. Sunnah and Mustahab are the same thing.
There can be more than one word describing the same thing, you'll find this in practically any language.
And there's more than enough evidence in the Quran about the obligation to follow the Prophet. I am not just referring to the obey the prophet verses, there are lots of other ones.
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
Since when the heck is Wajib the same as Farz. There are varying degrees of necessity and inhibition in Islam. Wajib is one degree and Farz is another. That's common knowledge. Please don't twist things around just to justify your behavior.
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
sherafghan,excellent post.....
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
sherafghan nay farmaya
**It’s surprising to me that you choose to accept the Quran unconditionally but not the Sunnah, because the source of both is the same man. **
depends on your definition of ‘source’ as far as quran goes the prophet was a channel, not a source. the source was Allah.
Wajib and Fard are the same thing, which scholar says that the two are different?
if wajib is farz and farz is wajib then why do we even have different terms, why dont we just call them wajib? and why do we then have sunnat e mokida and gher mokidda
I did a quick search and found a translation of Imam Shafi’s book, these excerpts are entitled “An obligation to accept the authority of the Prophet”
Dis not know someone made Imam shafai god.
If you don’t want to read that then at least read this brief article on “Following the Messenger is a must”
http://islaam.com/Article.aspx?id=239
again personal views of someone who is writing why they feel that follwoing all commands i spart and parcel of religion and not just recommendations.
So, I originally asked YOU a question which you didn’t answer.
Can you provide some references for saying that the Prophet was not given any authority by Allah?
I answered the question, you chose not to hear it.
can you provide references in quran that unconditionally state that every word of the prophet is equivalent to a farz?
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
Perhaps you didn't read the links, all scholars agree that even the source of the Sunnah was Allah. Allah says in the Quran that He has inspired the speech of the Prophet. Allah says in the Quran to the Prophet to recite the verses and teach al Hikmah, this Ayah occurs more than once in the Quran. The scholars have interpreted Hikmah to be the Sunnah, I can't imagine what else would Allah be referring to other than the Sunnah because He mentions teaching the Book and then says to teach Hikmah, ie. the Quran and the Sunnah.
Allah has not only told us to obey the Prophet, but also to make him a judge between our arguments, and he has been described as the best model for us, etc. etc., all in the Quran.
My point was that both Quran and Sunnah have been transmitted to us through one man, and yet you choose to ignore the Sunnah aspect. And sunnah is a far greater aspect of his life.
If you want to get into the fine details then yes there is a difference, but for our purposes both fard and wajib are the same. We are rewarded when we do them and we sin when we don't. Is there any scholar who says otherwise?
Sunnah moaqida and ghair moaqida is something only in hanafi fiqh. All other madhahib consider sunnah to be the same as nafil.
At the time of the Prophet there was no such thing as sunnah moaqida or ghair moaqida, everything was either fard/wajib or nafil.
Are you trying to say that Imam Shafi has committed shirk, or are you saying that following Imam Shafi is shirk?
Or is it that you know more than Imam Shafi?
Personal views? You can say that about anything, of course it's personal views. The question should be that is there a consensus of the scholars on this issue.
You didn't quote any scholar and I cannot consider you to be an authority on Islam. If I had to choose between Imam Shafi and Fraudz then I'd pick Imam Shafi.
You need to realize that as Muslims we need to change our lives according to Islam. Don't change Islam to suit your own lives. This is why we have to put our trust in Allah.
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
sherafghan
*Perhaps you didn't read the links, all scholars agree that even the source of the Sunnah was Allah. Allah says in the Quran that He has inspired the speech of the Prophet. Allah says in the Quran to the Prophet to recite the verses and teach al Hikmah, this Ayah occurs more than once in the Quran. The scholars have interpreted Hikmah to be the Sunnah, I can't imagine what else would Allah be referring to other than the Sunnah because He mentions teaching the Book and then says to teach Hikmah, ie. the Quran and the Sunnah. *
scholars have "interpreted" hikmah to be sunnah
sunnah is known thru people who later write this all down like hadeeth
many ahdetth were thron out because they were fault
many ahadeeth are weak
you can not guarantee the authenticity of hadeeth
thus you can not guarantee the autehnticity of sunnah
and even if it is authentic, there is no concept of time, and whether there are things that were needed for a particular point in time or were commands for all humans forever.
**
Allah has not only told us to obey the Prophet, but also to make him a judge between our arguments, and he has been described as the best model for us, etc. etc., all in the Quran. **
true, and it was much easier when the prophet was alive and could be the judge in person. fast forward to now and you have to use hadeeth as basis for this judgement and hadeeth comes with its inherent weaknesses, errors, and lack of conditions surrounding the hadeeth.
My point was that both Quran and Sunnah have been transmitted to us through one man, and yet you choose to ignore the Sunnah aspect. And sunnah is a far greater aspect of his life.
My point was that they have been transmitted but while Allah took the responsibility of safeguarding quran, he did not say so for the sunnah or hadeeth.
** If you want to get into the fine details then yes there is a difference, but for our purposes both fard and wajib are the same. **
No, they are not the same.
*We are rewarded when we do them and we sin when we don't. Is there any scholar who says otherwise? *
*Sunnah moaqida and ghair moaqida is something only in hanafi fiqh. All other madhahib consider sunnah to be the same as nafil. *
wait a second, just above sunnah was part and parcel of religion and now aside from hanafi, its an optional thing? isn't sunnah a must do by your own argument just a few lines before? so what is the truth here.
*At the time of the Prophet there was no such thing as sunnah moaqida or ghair moaqida, everything was either fard/wajib or nafil. *
not farz/wajib or nafil, but farz*,*wajib, or nafil
*Are you trying to say that Imam Shafi has committed shirk, or are you saying that following Imam Shafi is shirk? *
I am saying that imam shafai is not god, and he is not the prophet he is just another human being who tried to do his best, and he could have made errors.
Or is it that you know more than Imam Shafi?
Nope, I dont have any basis to say that. but had he been irefutable and 100% accurate we would not have hanafis and malikis and what nots right?
** Personal views? You can say that about anything, of course it's personal views. The question should be that is there a consensus of the scholars on this issue.**
consensus does not mean fact. it is more than nothing, but it still is not infallible. scholars do not have divine insight.
** You didn't quote any scholar and I cannot consider you to be an authority on Islam. If I had to choose between Imam Shafi and Fraudz then I'd pick Imam Shafi.**
I dont have to quote any scholar, scholars are human beings, they do not have any more information than is available to you and I, they used their judgement. While their judgment may be significantly better than ours
There have also been concepts that have ben revisited and the consensus has changed. there are areas that have disagreements between scholars, the same scholars, so if they can be wrong on one front, ther eis no guarantee that they can not be incorrect on another front.
You need to realize that as Muslims we need to change our lives according to Islam. Don't change Islam to suit your own lives. This is why we have to put our trust in Allah.
I do not want to change islam to suit my life, niether would I take views that suited other people an scholars to define religious obligations. Trust in Allah is one thing, trust in scholars is quite another.
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
- It is farz in the 3 of the schools
- Not doing a wajib thing is a sinful act.
- It is not necessary for a thing to be written in the Quran to be farz.
All of this have I mentioned before.
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
1. It is farz in the 3 of the schools
so the ppl in the other schools are wrong. how is it farz in the schools.
*Not doing a wajib thing is a sinful act. *
why is that.
it was not commanded by God. Quran does not talk about wajib. quran talks about salat, and zakat, and sayam, and haqooq al ibaad etc, it does not talk about beard.
what else is wajib that we dont know.
what is this wajib business anyways..either something is part of religion or its not, its either farz or its added bonus, thats it. none of this, oh yeah this is needed too,a nd also this and this and this.
3. It is not necessary for a thing to be written in the Quran to be farz.
really?? quran is complete, everything out of quran is a mere explanation or interpretation. so how can something that is not in quran be farz?
All of this have I mentioned before.
yep, so this was unnecessary..
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
Scholars have interpreted a lot of things, just because scholars are not infallible doesn't mean that we throw out what they are saying.
The scholars of islam spend so much time learning the religion, that is why we are told to refer to scholars about things we don't know (from the Quran).
And if Hikmah is not sunnah, then what else could it be?
The fact that Allah told the Prophet to teach us Hikmah (apart from the Quran), means that there's more to Islam than just the Quran.
If you are using the argument that there are weak ahadith, then are you not worried that you will lose out on this Hikmah that Allah speaks of in the Quran?
Regarding the concept of time, this is an issue in usul ul fiqh. The wordings of Ahadith are such that some refer to a particular situation, others refer to all situations. I don't know much about this, but I do know that in usul ul fiqh there is a distinction about such things.
Back to authenticity of hadith, why would you ignore those saheeh ahadith which are mutawatir?
I can understand that you may want to ignore the ones which are Ahad but what about the Mutawatir ones?
There would have been a lot of problems today if the scholars would not have classified ahadith. If I were to ignore all ahadith then how would I make the Prophet a judge in arguments betweeen me and you?
I am just curious to know what the wording of that particular Ayah is, would you mind quoting it?
wait a second, just above sunnah was part and parcel of religion and now aside from hanafi, its an optional thing? isn't sunnah a must do by your own argument just a few lines before? so what is the truth here.
I meant fard and wajib are the same as in, they have to be done. If you are a scholar of fiqh then you need to worry about the exact distinction between the two.
About sunnah, you are using your hanafi interpretation to understand what i said. I didn't mean that the hanafi sunnah moaqida/ghair moaqida equals nafil in the other madhab.
How do you know this, are you sure?
It's kind of sad that you'll have to go through Ahadith to verify this, but then again there's the authenticity factor.
Me and you are prone to errors moreso than Imam Shafi. I am not saying that he is infallible, all I am saying is that I'd rather trust his judgement than my own or of any other scholar living today (at least in the fundamentals of Islam).
Other schools exist because of different interpretations. Different interpretations existed even in the time of the Prophet. The Prophet did indicate on occasion that two different interpretations of something were both correct.
There are also instances where the Prophet wanted to do something and some Sahabi wanted something else, and then an Ayah would come down approving what the Sahabi wanted. Again, to verify all this you need to go through Ahadith.
Actually consensus of the scholars is good enough, there is a hadith approving this.
There have also been concepts that have ben revisited and the consensus has changed. there are areas that have disagreements between scholars, the same scholars, so if they can be wrong on one front, ther eis no guarantee that they can not be incorrect on another front.
Just because they are fallible doesn't mean that you stop following them. I mean the Prophet did make mistakes in his lifetime, so are you going to stop following his teachings, is this why you ignore hadith?
So who do you refer to, if you are not going to trust the scholars?
Allah says in the Quran to go to the scholars if we don't know about something, if you put your trust in Allah and in His Book then you have to go to scholars, right?