Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
Its not a cultural custom. The scholars differ on the length because there isnt any decisive proof of the beards length. But there is certainly mass transmitted decisive proof of having it, or letting it grow as has been mentioned....
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
its kinda like the muslm version of those braided sideburns you may see among hasidic jews.
if god really wanted people to grow a beard, he would have stated in his book and made it compulsary.
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
A common thing to say by non-ahl-e-sunna people. Ahl-e-Sunnah on the other hand say that whatever the Quran AND the Prophet has commanded is as if Allah would have commanded it himself, as God clearly states in the Quran.
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
Wasn't the prophet but a messenger and not on par with the words of God? Are you really supposed to trust what someone reported what someone said that someone overheard something the prophet may have said as if they are commandments from God? Did this come through Gabriel, or did prophet have a direct line to God outside of that cave where he learned of these commandments?
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
oh I am supposedly sunni, or atleast I was raised as such, although I have discarded such ridiculuous made up titles and divisions long time ago.
I still do not see how it becomes a must to do.
quran AND prophet , or
quran AND/OR prophet right.
because I have really read quran several times, in urdu and english and I cant find the command to grow a beard anywhere.
Now growing the beard AND trimming the mustache was asked to differntiate someone as a muslim, guess I cant do it if i live in amish area :)
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
my dear fraudia,u r quite sensitive guy....first of all,wht i can understand from ur post tht sunnah does not have much importance for u and things like beard does not matter..my dear,how the hell i can go to such levels to say such things...sunnah or hadiths belong to prophet and these r extremely important thing and if we start neglecting sunnah or hadiths by saying "farzh nahi hai" then ur point is extremely weak...prophet gave so much qurbani for us muslims and we muslims should obey him in every aspect of life no matter wht our boss tells us to do abt beard or blah blah....Sunnahs r extremely important...
as i said before tht many of us dont have beard nor our families women observe hijab so we come up with extremely idiotic statements...i m sorry to say tht....
and yes i dont have beard and i dont follow islam much but wht i know is i dont justify my actions from islam....if i start to drink so tht means i should try to justify it by saying tht its my personal choice.. nah.....this is the difference between me and people like u....
u think non muslims will become muslim by watching a muslim guy who does not pray,who does not follow sunnah,whose family does not observe hijhab....never..u think musharaf or riffat hasan or a secular loser like javed iqbal would impress non muslims to become muslim... agar tumharay pass dimaghe hai to tum meray point ko samjh jao gay....
i have seen many goras muslims on peace tv and they passionately defend islam and sunnahs(especially beard) and hijab...but wht we muslims do..."sunnah r not important"..... yeah yeah...
by the way,agar app ko meri koi baat buri lagi ho to maafi chata ho... agar nahi lagi ho to maafi advance mein apnay pass rekhlo kay shaid future mein kuch aisa ho jaiye;)...
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
my dear fraudia,u r quite sensitive guy....
not quite, I expect people to be civilzed and polite. I know it is asking too much from some ppl, but thats just proper.
first of all,wht i can understand from ur post tht sunnah does not have much importance for u and things like beard does not matter..
no, I wrote that a beard is not farz, which is a fact. faraiz are most important and critical, no one can doubt that, you think beard is at the same level as tauheed?
my dear,how the hell i can go to such levels to say such things...sunnah or hadiths belong to prophet and these r extremely important thing and if we start neglecting sunnah or hadiths by saying "farzh nahi hai" then ur point is extremely weak...
fact remains it is not farz, if it was farz the prophet would have told us that. and it would be in Quran.
**
prophet gave so much qurbani for us muslims and we muslims should obey him in every aspect of life no matter wht our boss tells us to do abt beard or blah blah....Sunnahs r extremely important...**
sunnahs are important, and even if there is no confusion about them, they still are not equal to farz, period.
as i said before tht many of us dont have beard nor our families women observe hijab so we come up with extremely idiotic statements...i m sorry to say tht....
and as I have said before, majority of ppl who have beards and think they are so much holier than others ..also have mustaches, and the sunnah is to grow the beard and trim the mustaches.
anyways, forget idiotic reasons or non idiotic reasons, I am stating a fact.
is growing a beard a farz? yes or no. what would the answer be. obviously the answer is a "NO" .. ppl would always start qualifying it with "but its a sunnah ..." well answer the question and full stop. then if there is a question abotu well if it is not farz why is it important then start on all the mokidah or non mokidah and what nots.
and yes i dont have beard and i dont follow islam much but wht i know is i dont justify my actions from islam....
so its hypocrisy, you say it is so important but you dont do it. in your view you know its right but you dont do it. that is also a fact.
if making excuses or justifications is wrong, knowing something and not following it is also wrong. I mean if that is something that god will ask you about, your answer that well I atleast knew I was wrong is not better than someone's I did not feel it was important. because in the end the outcome is the same
if i start to drink so tht means i should try to justify it by saying tht its my personal choice.. nah.....this is the difference between me and people like u....
if you drink and say well i know its wrong and I still drink, versus someone who tries to justify it to themselves, it is not goign to matter either way on teh day of judgement.
u think non muslims will become muslim by watching a muslim guy who does not pray,who does not follow sunnah,whose family does not observe hijhab....never..
actually yes, and i have seen that happen. Usually the converts have been impressed by someone's husn-e-ikhlaaq and decency and then their faith
additionally, just because someone does not follow sunnah does not mean he does not follow faraiz. or are you telling me that just like you belive that a beard a must and you dont do it, you also know the faraiz are a must and you dont do those?
*u think musharaf or riffat hasan or a secular loser like javed iqbal would impress non muslims to become muslim... *
the impress none muslims more than many supposedly religious people including the losers of MMA
agar tumharay pass dimaghe hai to tum meray point ko samjh jao gay....
agar tumharay paas dimagh hai toh tum aindah kabhi badtameezi say baat naheen karro gay...samajh aa gayee baat?
*i have seen many goras muslims on peace tv and they passionately defend islam and sunnahs(especially beard) and hijab...but wht we muslims do..."sunnah r not important"..... yeah yeah... *
yet again, whether sunnah is important or not. Is a sunnah the same as farz, is the sunnah at the same level as farz. is sunnah among the 5 pillars of islam?
*by the way,agar app ko meri koi baat buri lagi ho to maafi chata ho... *
sorry, jaan kar badtameezi karnay kaay baad maafi mangnay say koi farq naheen parta. aik suljha hua insaan tameez say baat karna jaanta hai.
agar nahi lagi ho to maafi advance mein apnay pass rekhlo kay shaid future mein kuch aisa ho jaiye;)...
Future mein? kaafi optimistic hain aap. If there is such a badtameezi next time, it will be the last time ;) (just serious)
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
Surah al Maidah verse 92 “Obey Allah and Obey his Prophet and worry, and be warned that the Prophet’s duty is only to deliver the message clearly”
Surah Mujadilah verses 12-13 “Perform Salat (Prayer), give Zakat and Obey Allah and his Prophet”
Both these noble verses clarify the matter unambiguously. Allah commands the Muslims in the Qur’an to obey Allah - unconditionally - and furthermore to obey the Prophet - once more, unconditionally.
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
My initial point was that whatever one calls it, it is not and will not reach the status of Farz. That points stays ...A Sunnah can never be considered a Farz.
Now I do not think that beard is a must, right or wrong that is what I think, so before people start accusing me of making excuses, everything that is listed below is more for people to think, and to address. The goal is not to convince me that I must grow a beard, but maybe answer some of the points below.
the second point was that people argue about sunnahs i.e. at most s secondary to-do, while as a whole the primary to-dos are not being fulfilled. That is a little astonishing to me. This is also true, with the amount of argument and rhetoric around beard, hijab and ooncha pajama and all it would seem that people are looking for additional info on things that they want to to do properly since they are doing all that they should. The fact is quite the opposite.
The argument always is that, well if someone is not doing one thing right does not mean that he shoul give up everything that is right, which makes sense to some level, but that cant be an excuse for too long.
In the excuses list of why men dont grow beard, one point was missing that the people with beards have by their actions (not all of course) gained a reputation of being self righteous, holier than thou, narrow minded, ethnocentric, fanatics. Why would one want t be mistaken for one of them? If the Prophet wanted people to grow beards so they can be recognized as muslims, I guess the wrong type of people have grow beards en masse so ppl goriwng beards now get recognized as something completely else. I am not talking in the west either, lets set that aside for a minute, but even in our own countries. Why do I see ppl with beards going burning ppls properties/vehicles, public property or businesses when they are angry about some political stuff? yes they ahve the beard which is a sunnah... what about the haqooq al ibaad, and what about other sunnah and hadeeth about anger control, and to respect people and their rights. Why does that get ignored.
Lastly, for ages the beards that people grew were less due to some sort of sense or feeling of religious obligation, but it was a cultural norm. culture shifted due to extrnal influences sure..but was there really any merit in a beard that was not there to follow sunnah but because it was a cultural thing? i.e. you were doing it for someone else but not really for God?
Now for some points for more academic discussion..
Obey Allah AND his prophet, versys Obey Allah and/or his prophet?
Now
it does not say in quran about the beard
so any hadeeth that is about beard may or may not be right
one does not know if it is something that was meant for ever or for that particular point in time. If some other group starts growing a beard case in point amish.. how does a muslim get differentiated from them just by the virtue of having a beard.
This also precludes ppl of chinese ancestary from having the full fist long beard because many can not grow it. Why would there be a command to do something that is going to be impossible for many of the faithful.
Just some thoughts as I think of this topic.
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
Now I do not think that beard is a must, right or wrong that is what I think, so before people start accusing me of making excuses, everything that is listed below is more for people to think, and to address. The goal is not to convince me that I must grow a beard, but maybe answer some of the points below.
the second point was that people argue about sunnahs i.e. at most s secondary to-do, while as a whole the primary to-dos are not being fulfilled. That is a little astonishing to me. This is also true, with the amount of argument and rhetoric around beard, hijab and ooncha pajama and all it would seem that people are looking for additional info on things that they want to to do properly since they are doing all that they should. The fact is quite the opposite.
The argument always is that, well if someone is not doing one thing right does not mean that he shoul give up everything that is right, which makes sense to some level, but that cant be an excuse for too long.
In the excuses list of why men dont grow beard, one point was missing that the people with beards have by their actions (not all of course) gained a reputation of being self righteous, holier than thou, narrow minded, ethnocentric, fanatics. Why would one want t be mistaken for one of them? If the Prophet wanted people to grow beards so they can be recognized as muslims, I guess the wrong type of people have grow beards en masse so ppl goriwng beards now get recognized as something completely else. I am not talking in the west either, lets set that aside for a minute, but even in our own countries. Why do I see ppl with beards going burning ppls properties/vehicles, public property or businesses when they are angry about some political stuff? yes they ahve the beard which is a sunnah... what about the haqooq al ibaad, and what about other sunnah and hadeeth about anger control, and to respect people and their rights. Why does that get ignored.
Lastly, for ages the beards that people grew were less due to some sort of sense or feeling of religious obligation, but it was a cultural norm. culture shifted due to extrnal influences sure..but was there really any merit in a beard that was not there to follow sunnah but because it was a cultural thing? i.e. you were doing it for someone else but not really for God?
Now for some points for more academic discussion..
Obey Allah AND his prophet, versys Obey Allah and/or his prophet?
Now
it does not say in quran about the beard so any hadeeth that is about beard may or may not be right one does not know if it is something that was meant for ever or for that particular point in time. If some other group starts growing a beard case in point amish.. how does a muslim get differentiated from them just by the virtue of having a beard.
This also precludes ppl of chinese ancestary from having the full fist long beard because many can not grow it. Why would there be a command to do something that is going to be impossible for many of the faithful.
Just some thoughts as I think of this topic.
there is a reference to the beard in the Quran in Surah Taha,
the story when Musa went to meet with Allah for 40 days and left Harun in charge, when Musa came back he saw his people worshipping the calf
he threw the tablets (the scripture) on the ground, ran to Harun and grabbed him by his head and beard
ie. it was a tradition of the Prophets
your thing about the amish, well the Quraish used to grow big beards too
just because non muslims adopt a sunnah doesn't mean that the muslims abandon it
and a hadith in Sahih Muslim says that growing a beard and trimming the moustache is fitrah
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
just because soemothing is generally referenced in quran does not mean that it is allowed or disallowed. o more so that it is ‘required’ or not required.
how about the rest of my questions. I would be interested in finding out people’s perspectives and gain some knowledge as it relates to those questions.
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
hmm i think u should & its encouraged, but it's not mandatory.
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
Afridi thank you, thats what I believe, encouraged but not mandated.
but many of my questions were less from an argumentative point of view, but just stuf that I winder about and would love to get some views on those.
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
Fraudz,
all of your points may be valid in themselves, but it does not make growing a beard less wajib. If a bearded guy smokes a sigarette doesnt give anyone an excuse not to grow a beard. If a Hijabi-woman has a boyfriend, doesnt make observing the Hijab less farz. What if a Salaah-praying man is a notorious adulterer ? Is the salaah less farz because of that ?
As far as its not written in the Quran is concerned, there are many things that are not written in the Quran, but are still a part of Sharia because the Prophet(pbuh) made it to be so. Like the details in observing Salaah. Do you find them in the Quran ? Should we stop praying the way we are used to then ?
The scholars hadnt deemed the beard to be wajib if there hadn’t been sufficient proof of it. Now, you are free to not beleive in these proof because you dont “feel” like it, or because your “gut” tells you not do so. (Like S. Colbert puts it), but the facts point in another direction.
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
because I have really read quran several times, in urdu and english and I cant find the command to grow a beard anywhere.
Qur'aan doesn't teach us how to pray Namaaz or when to pray or how much Zakaat to give or how to perform the Hajj either.
There's also the Sunnah. I do admit though that the sources of Sunnah (Ahadeeth Books) are different for Sunnis, Shiahs and Kharijis so the definition of Sunnah will probably be different.
[quote]
Now growing the beard AND trimming the mustache was asked to differntiate someone as a muslim, guess I cant do it if i live in amish area
[/quote]
We are not meant to be different from them in everything because that is impractical.
What is meant is that we should be different from them when they go against the fitrah (nature) upon which Allaah created mankind and when they go against the orders of Allaah, we should do the opposite of them and follow the orders of Allaah and do things in line with the fitrah.
If a Jewish person says the Christian Trinity is Avodah-Zarah (Shirk) and goes against the 1st commandment and the 1st Noachide law then he is right and we agree with him. If a nun wear a Hijaab then we shouldn't try and be different from them in that regard because they are doing something right, if a Jehovah's Witness says only Yahovah (Allah) is worhty of worship then we agree with him because he is right, or Amish man grows a beard then they're acting upon the fitrah Allah created them.
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
as I said, the point here is ot to convince me, but to answer the questions that i posed. do going on tangents such as quran does not tell u how to pray is not useful. btw quran tells u to pray and sunnah explains how so its somsrhign that is in Quran AND hadeeth/Sunnah, Beard on the other hand is not in Quran. i hope the difference is clear,
so going back to the questions I had posed. lets say had a beard and I posed those questions, how would you answer those.?
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
*Qur'aan doesn't teach us how to pray Namaaz or when to pray or how much Zakaat to give or how to perform the Hajj either. *
But Quran clearly indicates that u have to perform hajj, and you ahve to give zakat and you have to make salat. Numerous places. If beard was so important, would it not have been mentioned in one place commanding people to keep a beard and then the hadeeth/sunnah explaining the specifics.
when sunnah explains salat its something that is in Quran AND Sunnah, whe it comes to beard it is not in Quran so you are now going to say its quran and/or sunnah, thus saying that the quran is incomplete in its guidance, which I dont buy.
everyone is stuck at this point, the last poster as well, and several before him too.
*There's also the Sunnah. I do admit though that the sources of Sunnah (Ahadeeth Books) are different for Sunnis, Shiahs and Kharijis so the definition of Sunnah will probably be different. *
sunnah is not quran. just like sunnah is not farz.
I had some other questions that I listed which sees to get no answers, maybe because there are no answers that posters here know.
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
Akhiy my point is how come is you’ll buy the Ahadeeth which teach you how to pray Salaah yet you reject those that say letting the beard, doing circumcision, shaving the pubes etc. is part of the sunan al-fitra? Even though they may both be as saheeh as each other and have the same/similar chain of narration..? if you’re not going to trust the latter hadeeth then how do you trust the former because that too can contain errors or be fabricated, no? Yeah Qur’aan does tell us to pray but that is no proof for that hadeeth’s authencity, how do you know the definition/method of Salaah mentioned in that Hadeeth is the right one? for example the Agha Khanis (Ismaeli Shiahs) stand in a circle and do dua’ and say they have fulfilled the Quranic order of Salaah.
Qur’aan is complete in its guidance, no Muslim denies that but Qur’aan itself tells us to follow the Messenger :saw: as well as Allah’s kalaam, so following the Sunnah is following the complete guidance of the Qur’aan because the Qur’aan points us to the Sunnah. (did that make sense? no to me neither i’m tired from roza.)
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
^ That argument is useless because various muslims around the world have slightly different ways of praying. Slight differences.
Now, if the hadith were set in gold, how do these difference arise?
Obviously, there is some gray area in the picture.
Re: Top 10 reasons why Muslim men dont keep beards
qibla..lets focus on beard than pubes for now 
the diff b/w salah and beard is that quran tells to pray n numerous ocassions…and the hadeeth explains how, but I mean I have read quran and have not found anything that states that beard is a part of religion, and then hadeeth/sunnah explaining the length, shape, trim etc. There simply is nothing in quran about beard from what I have read.
if it was that critical, you think god would have chosen to not mention it in his book?
now if hadeeth about how to pray is wrong, and we are praying incorrectly then we are trying to fulfill a farz in an incorrect fashion due to bad information, if the hadeeth about beard is wrong, I am doing somethign which is not part of religion and making it so.
Big difference