To those who are ashamed of being Pakistanis or related to Pakistan or Muslims...

[chacha_Ghalib]

Re: To those who are ashamed of being Pakistanis or related to Pakistan or Muslims…

um, diwana uncle can I ask you a question, pretty please? How does it feel being so awesome and does that awesomeness ever tire you out?

[chacha_Ghalib]

Re: To those who are ashamed of being Pakistanis or related to Pakistan or Muslims…

@hareem01

Diwana is right…Khawarij like ISIS or TTP are not Muslims.

Right, they need a certificate from hareem or diwana before they can call themselves muslims. According to the ex-head of Jamaat-e-islami, an islamic party in the islamic republic of Pakistan, TTP are not only muslim they are shaheed when they get killed by the border-line kafir forces of Pakistan. Whose word are we to take? Yours or the mullah’s?

[hareem01]

Re: To those who are ashamed of being Pakistanis or related to Pakistan or Muslims…

@chacha_Ghalib

Right, they need a certificate from hareem or diwana before they can call themselves muslims. According to the ex-head of Jamaat-e-islami, an islamic party in the islamic republic of Pakistan, TTP are not only muslim they are shaheed when they get killed by the border-line kafir forces of Pakistan. Whose word are we to take? Yours or the mullah’s?

Mine.

[Southie]

Re: To those who are ashamed of being Pakistanis or related to Pakistan or Muslims…

Word

[diwana]

Re: To those who are ashamed of being Pakistanis or related to Pakistan or Muslims…

@chacha_Ghalib

um, diwana uncle can I ask you a question, pretty please? How does it feel being so awesome and does that awesomeness ever tire you out?

Never felt awesome chacha ji.

@chacha_Ghalib

Right, they need a certificate from hareem or diwana before they can call themselves muslims.

No one needs any certificate for making any ‘claim’. Other people are free to disagree with the claim made.

@chacha_Ghalib

**According to the ex-head of Jamaat-e-islami, **an islamic party in the islamic republic of Pakistan, TTP are not only muslim they are shaheed when they get killed by the border-line kafir forces of Pakistan.

You are saying that you are now a follower of Jamaate-Islamism.

Yeh Kab Hua? Kaise Hua?

People who kill innocent people and civillians by any means, are NOT Muslims.

@chacha_Ghalib

Whose word are we to take? Yours or the mullah’s?

Mine too.

[Balthier]

Re: To those who are ashamed of being Pakistanis or related to Pakistan or Muslims…

@diwana

You did not read my post(s) carefully.

You brought “cultural relationship” as an argument to support your wrong idea as if Pakistanis have something in relation to ISIS or Boko Haram or talibans type of people.

I posted answer to that and asked what do YOU as YOU IN PERSON feel that they are related to you culturally.

You wrote: " I am of a Pakistani origin". You are deliberately trying to fool the readers by saying that.

Why?

Large majority of Pakistanis have nothing to do with ISIS people (Arabic origin), Boko Haram (Nigerians) or Talibans (from a small area of Northern Pakistan close to Afghanistan).

So there. **Your attempt to try to lump sump ALL Muslims and ALL Pakistanis (Muslims) is plain and simple hogwash. Try again. You will fail miserably.
**
You used words like “we” and “us”.

You missed my post earlier which simply said **if YOU use word like “we” and “us” when talking about criminals, YOU are included in those criminals. **
Learn English if confused about what I said.

YOU are including YOURSELF in to those criminals and terrorists by using those words.
**
And …YOU are among those terrorists, to put is bluntly by using those words. YOU self incriminated and admitting to it.

This the essence of my thread.**

No one gives you the right for speaking for anyone else.

Speak for yourself.

When you said “we”,.. it means YOU are the one who were brought up with this kind of upbringing. I sincerely pity you. Sorry.

Are you one of those mob or holding resentment against non-Muslims?

You MUST be by saying what you said earlier.

If not, then talk about yourself. Do not say “we”, “our” and “our own” and make readers get confused of who YOU really are and included in the mob.

No, I did not bring ISIS, Boko Haram etc into the discussion. Neither did anyone else really. You brought them into the discussion. Because you are of notion that these groups are the only problematic element in muslim societies. When in reality, the true problem isn’t these groups, but rather the mindset which nurtures these groups. Until you acknowledge the mindset as problematic, you will not be able to fight it. And unless the mindset is dealt with, groups such as ISIS, Boko Haram, Taliban will keep on rising.

The mindset which thinks its ok to stone people for adultery, kill people for apostasy, keep female sex slaves (under certain conditions) etc. is prevalent among many muslims, regardless of their cultural and national background. But when groups who are crazy enough to actually act upon this mindset, we say that they are not from us? Please.

Also, I find it strange that you think ISIS, Boko Haram etc. are the only ones committing atrocities. When we almost daily read about atrocities being committed against non mulims, by Pakistani mobs, in Pakistan. Perhaps, its a rather convenient way for you to not acknowledge reality? You want to start and end the discussion on ISIS and the likes, instead of acknowledging that they are just the tip of the ice berg.

This isn’t about me as an individual. It saddens me to see that you want this to be about individuals on a personal level, rather than acknowledging that the resentment against non muslims is a reality for non muslims in most muslim nations. People don’t gather around and start burning others in a momentary fit of rage, there is something deeper that lay behind these actions. Unless you are willing to acknowledge that, you will not be able to rid the society of these attacks.

The vast majority in Pakistan thinks its perfectly fine to penalize apostasy with death. Religious belief is put first, human beings are put second. And you really don’t think such mindset is problematic for the society? People in Pakistan, and muslim societies in general, are not judged upon their actions and deeds as human beings. They are rather judged upon their religious background. The whole world sees this problem. The whole world criticizes it, but we, who are of Pakistani origin, pretend that its not occurring.

Just because you refuse to acknowledge the problem, it will not magically vanish by itself. Acknowledge the problem, then deal with it. Don’t pretend it doesn’t exist. You are refusing to acknowledge the problem, because its hard for you to comprehend that the mindset which is prevalent in OUR nations, is actually creating these monsters. And not the other way around. And by these monsters, don’t limit it to ISIS and the likes, they are just the tip of the ice berg.

[KKF]

Re: To those who are ashamed of being Pakistanis or related to Pakistan or Muslims…

well said, but a bit too long reply for a trivial problem

[diwana]

Re: To those who are ashamed of being Pakistanis or related to Pakistan or Muslims…

@Balthier

No, I did not bring ISIS, Boko Haram etc into the discussion. Neither did anyone else really. You brought them into the discussion. Because you are of notion that these groups are the only problematic element in muslim societies. When in reality, the true problem isn’t these groups, but rather the mindset which nurtures these groups. Until you acknowledge the mindset as problematic, you will not be able to fight it. And unless the mindset is dealt with, groups such as ISIS, Boko Haram, Taliban will keep on rising.

The mindset which thinks its ok to stone people for adultery, kill people for apostasy, keep female sex slaves (under certain conditions) etc. is prevalent among many muslims, regardless of their cultural and national background. But when groups who are crazy enough to actually act upon this mindset, we say that they are not from us? Please.

Also, I find it strange that you think ISIS, Boko Haram etc. are the only ones committing atrocities. When we almost daily read about atrocities being committed against non mulims, by Pakistani mobs, in Pakistan. Perhaps, its a rather convenient way for you to not acknowledge reality? You want to start and end the discussion on ISIS and the likes, instead of acknowledging that they are just the tip of the ice berg.

This isn’t about me as an individual. It saddens me to see that you want this to be about individuals on a personal level, rather than acknowledging that the resentment against non muslims is a reality for non muslims in most muslim nations. People don’t gather around and start burning others in a momentary fit of rage, there is something deeper that lay behind these actions. Unless you are willing to acknowledge that, you will not be able to rid the society of these attacks.

The vast majority in Pakistan thinks its perfectly fine to penalize apostasy with death. Religious belief is put first, human beings are put second. And you really don’t think such mindset is problematic for the society? People in Pakistan, and muslim societies in general, are not judged upon their actions and deeds as human beings. They are rather judged upon their religious background. The whole world sees this problem. The whole world criticizes it, but we, who are of Pakistani origin, pretend that its not occurring.

Just because you refuse to acknowledge the problem, it will not magically vanish by itself. Acknowledge the problem, then deal with it. Don’t pretend it doesn’t exist. You are refusing to acknowledge the problem, because its hard for you to comprehend that the mindset which is prevalent in OUR nations, is actually creating these monsters. And not the other way around. And by these monsters, don’t limit it to ISIS and the likes, they are just the tip of the ice berg.

This thread for the umpteenth time is NOT about if problems are existing in Pakistan or any other countries who claim to be Islamic.

It is about the mindset of those people who have depression about these problems so much that they lose the touch of reality and start associating themselves with people who have criminal mindset.

No idea why you want me to repeat but I already said condemning the wrong people is not a problem. Associating with those by saying “we”, “us” and “our own” is.

---

It has taken so many posts for me to get this fact straight that criminals are NOT Muslims and there are guppies who think they ARE!

If this is the way to solve problems then its wrong.

First step is dissociate yourself from wrongdoers.

Tell them you are NOT one of ‘us’.

BTW: You have not answered my question.

“What do you comprehend and thought process which will make you join the people who burn religious minorities and say they are YOUR people?”

Don’t talk about others and justify criminals existing anywhere in the world. Talk about YOU.

That is my message.

[Reha]

Re: To those who are ashamed of being Pakistanis or related to Pakistan or Muslims…

@diwana

You should have answered my question instead of asking me ANY question in return. It means you did not read what I wrote earlier.

In essence you want me to repeat what was written before. Please go back and read what I said before.

Please answer my question.

Should have?

Now you’re going to tell people what they should and should not do? Vat you think you are? Prezident of the vorld?

Kuch aqal ke nakhoon lein…aur baat ka jawab dein agar itni hi Pakistaniyat jag rahi hai ek dam se.

[Southie]

Re: To those who are ashamed of being Pakistanis or related to Pakistan or Muslims…

^post 108) disagree with the above overly simplistic approach. Acknowledgement of a problem AND owning it is the first step towards progress.

Applies for ANY religion /society.

[Reha]

Re: To those who are ashamed of being Pakistanis or related to Pakistan or Muslims…

Religion needs to go - as in leave the governments completely.

WHY?

Because its stupid to defame a faith and all its followers based on the actions of a few and to govern entire nations based on the beliefs of a portion of them. Unbelievably Stupid.

Besides, half the people who keep saying that ISIS and all these terrorists are not Muslims are not really putting a criteria as to what a Muslim really is according to them. WHY? Because a scary amount of people wouldn’t qualify as Muslims if they did and they know they don’t get to dictate who is or who is not Muslim.

[Monk]

Re: To those who are ashamed of being Pakistanis or related to Pakistan or Muslims…

@Reha

Religion needs to go - as in leave the governments completely.

WHY?

Because its stupid to defame a faith and all its followers based on the actions of a few and to govern entire nations based on the beliefs of a portion of them. Unbelievably Stupid.

Besides, half the people who keep saying that ISIS and all these terrorists are not Muslims are not really putting a criteria as to what a Muslim really is according to them. WHY? Because a scary amount of people wouldn’t qualify as Muslims if they did and they know they don’t get to dictate who is or who is not Muslim.

You guys dont get it.. do you??
all the serial killer, known rapist were Christians.

Try to get that discussion going with white folks please.

[Southie]

Re: To those who are ashamed of being Pakistanis or related to Pakistan or Muslims…

@Monk

You guys dont get it.. do you??
all the serial killer, known rapist were Christians.

Try to get that discussion going with white folks please.

Please do join us on the Ferguson Mike Brown verdict. A couple of threads have been opened on the unfairness of the verdict. We welcome your presence. And input.

[diwana]

Re: To those who are ashamed of being Pakistanis or related to Pakistan or Muslims…

@Reha

Should have?

Now you’re going to tell people what they should and should not do? Vat you think you are? Prezident of the vorld?

Kuch aqal ke nakhoon lein…aur baat ka jawab dein agar itni hi Pakistaniyat jag rahi hai ek dam se.

“Should have” was based on I asked you first. Common courtesy.

But let it go. Never-mind. Ciao!

@Reha

Religion needs to go - as in leave the governments completely.

WHY?

Because its stupid to defame a faith and all its followers based on the actions of a few and to govern entire nations based on the beliefs of a portion of them. Unbelievably Stupid.

Besides, half the people who keep saying that ISIS and all these terrorists are not Muslims are not really putting a criteria as to what a Muslim really is according to them. WHY? Because a scary amount of people wouldn’t qualify as Muslims if they did and they know they don’t get to dictate who is or who is not Muslim.

Please open another thread and talk about religion and Government bla bla bla.

You can embrace ISIS type of people in your version of Islam. Fine with me. I already said that if you had cared to read.

Please learn the criteria of who is Muslim yourself. I cannot spoon-feed you. The thread is/was not even about that.

[diwana]

Re: To those who are ashamed of being Pakistanis or related to Pakistan or Muslims…

@Southie

^post 108) disagree with the above overly simplistic approach. Acknowledgement of a problem **AND owning it **is the first step towards progress.

Applies for ANY religion /society.

Owning what?

Criminal behavior?

Please go sell that to those guppies who love to own criminality.

[Southie]

Re: To those who are ashamed of being Pakistanis or related to Pakistan or Muslims…

@diwana

Owning what?

Criminal behavior?

Please go sell that to those guppies who love to own criminality.

Owning the fact the the society that one is a part of has some flaws and can use some reforms.

[diwana]

Re: To those who are ashamed of being Pakistanis or related to Pakistan or Muslims…

@Southie

Owning the fact the the society that one is a part of has some flaws and can use some reforms.

Will you take responsibility, feel ashamed of, and “own up to” anything wrong/criminal act,. your next door neighbor or even your ‘best friend’ did and you were NOT part of the act?

(Its a hypothetical question I am not saying your next door neighbor or best friend is criminal)

[Southie]

Re: To those who are ashamed of being Pakistanis or related to Pakistan or Muslims…

@diwana

Will you take responsibility, feel ashamed of, and “own up to” anything wrong/criminal act,. your next door neighbor or even your ‘best friend’ did and you were NOT part of the act?

(Its a hypothetical question I am not saying your next door neighbor or best friend is criminal)

No. I won’t. But you would agree that when one votes in a government, one shares in the responsibility wrt laws that are in the books and how they are implemented.

For example, Indians should own the fact they elected Modi, despite his poor record in Gujarat wrt Muslims.

[diwana]

Re: To those who are ashamed of being Pakistanis or related to Pakistan or Muslims…

@Southie

No. I won’t. But you would agree that when one votes in a government, one shares in the responsibility wrt laws that are in the books and how they are implemented.

For example, Indians should own the fact they elected Modi, despite his poor record in Gujarat wrt Muslims.

Good. But it is not about any elected Govt.

So there is no need for every Muslim or Pakistani to feel ashamed of, apologetic of, “owning up to”, (AND SEEN AS RESPONSIBLE FOR) any act which is committed by terrorists/Criminals regardless how much they claim to be “Muslims”.

[diwana]

Re: To those who are ashamed of being Pakistanis or related to Pakistan or Muslims…

Paid moles and/or so called and self proclaimed Pakistanis or ‘Muslims’ living inside or outside Pakistan write… “we” “us” or “our own” to make it look like ALL MUSLIMS or ALL Pakistanis somehow have to do with criminal behavior.

Shame on those people. They disgrace Pakistanis and Islam.