Tipu Sultan - Hero or Villian

Re: Tipu Sultan - Hero or Villian

Historian C. Hayavadana Rao wrote about Tippu in his encyclopaedic work on the History of Mysore. He asserted that Tippu’s “religious fanaticism and the excesses committed in the name of religion, both in Mysore and in the provinces, stand condemned for all time. His bigotry, indeed, was so great that it precluded all ideas of toleration”. He further asserts that the acts of Tippu that were constructive towards Hindus were largely political and ostentatious rather than an indication of genuine tolerance.

Hayavadana Rao was not just some 2 bit hindu historian. C. Hayavadana Rao - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Re: Tipu Sultan - Hero or Villian

More info on the ethnic cleansing
Mysorean invasion of Kerala - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Re: Tipu Sultan - Hero or Villian

There are many other Hindu historians according to the NYTimes piece that I posted above who dont believe this.

Religion in Kerala - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Muslims are generally referred to as Mappilas in Kerala. They form 24.3% of the population of Kerala. They share a common language (Malayalam) with the rest of the population and have a culture commonly regarded as the Malayalam culture of Kerala with an Arabian blend.[11] The general consensus among historians is that Islam arrived in Kerala through Arab traders either during the time of Muhammad himself (AD 609 - AD 632) or in the following few decades. Kerala has a very ancient relation with the middle east even during the Pre-Islamic period. Muslim merchants (Malik, son of Dinar) settled in Kerala by the 8th century AD and introduced Islam.

Later the Zamorin of Kozhikode allowed the Arab Muslim traders to settle and form a major community in Kozhikode, from where the religion gradually spread in the following centuries. Significant populations of Muslims live in Calicut, Malapuram districts in the Malabar region. Noted historian A. Sreedhara Menon opines that the policy followed by the Zamorins of encouraging Muslim traders to settle down in his kingdom to flourish maritime trade perhaps accounts for the relatively high proportion of Muslims in Malabar. The Muslims also manned the Zamorin’s navy and were so intensely pro-Zamorin that one of them issued an order to bring up one male member in every fishermen family in his kingdom as a Muslim so as to get sufficient numbers in his navy.[12] There is also a significant Muslim population living in the coastal regions of central and southern Kerala.

Historians also believe that during invasion of North Kerala by Tipu Sultan, he forcefully converted many Hindus to Islam.[13][14] In a letter Tipu sent to one of his generals he claims to have converted over four lakh Hindus.

Since Islam reached Malabar as early as 7th century it had almost mixed with the culture and traditions of the people of Kerala and Hinduism. So, the Islahi movements of Kerala (a part of the renaissance of the community) after the Malabar Rebellion of 1921, produced a Salafi sect known as Kerala Nadvathul Mujahideen from the Sunnis of Kerala. In later years, both these branches split multiple times to produce complicated branches and sects.

Muslims in Kerala enjoy a better social and financial security when compared to Muslims living in other parts of India. Kerala’s Muslim population is the fastest growing sect in Kerala. Muslims formed only 20 of Kerala population in 1971, but due to high population growth rate it increased to 24.3% of population as of 2001.[15]

Re: Tipu Sultan - Hero or Villian

Mate, I'll not take "all" information of Wikipedia as a Gospel. This point of view that you have come up with is a recent phenomena, which seems to be the continuation of the "Islam spread by force" mantra. Please provide some other (other than Wikipedia) sources as well.

Re: Tipu Sultan - Hero or Villian

Please feel free to prove the letters are not authentic.

Re: Tipu Sultan - Hero or Villian

The Moplahs of Malabar

**In a modern map of India, you will not find a place called Malabar. That is because there is no political or geographical unit by that name. Derived from the Malayalam word mala (hill) and a Semitic word bar meaning land, the term Malabar today refers roughly to the area formed by the districts of Malappuram, Kozhikode, Palghat, Wayanad, parts of Trichur, Kannur and Kasaragod in Kerala.

Malabar is also synonymous with spices that had drawn foreign traders to its shores since eons. During its prime, Kozhikode was a prominent harbour, drawing traders from China, West Africa and Arabia. Following Vasco-da-Gama’s visit in 1498, Syrians and Arabs followed in his wake, their trading vessels carrying Malabar products like pepper, coffee, rubber, coconut and coir to all parts of the western world. **

Oftentimes though bad weather disrupted their sailings and vessels were laid off for extended periods waiting for favourable winds to enable their return voyage. These long lay-offs triggered a trend: The Arabs began marrying native women — a kind of temporary marriages called Muta (pittance in Arabic) that required paying only a small mehr or bride price. When the weather cleared, they simply annulled the temporary alliance and departed. Naturally, the local brides and their off springs were admitted into Islam. This forms the origin of today’s Moplah community in Malabar, and the rest of Kerala.

Interestingly, the word Moplah is derived from the Tamil/Malayalam word mappila or Mapillai, meaning newlywed groom or son-in-law of the house, a nod toward the sons-in-law of the original native population. Today the term refers to their descendents — the Malayalam-speaking Muslims of Kerala, making up the second largest community at 24.7 per cent of the population.

**Another story credits the Chera King Cheraman Perumal, who had embraced Islam, with the spread of Islam here. Following up on his wishes, Arab religious leaders, notably Malik Ibn Dinar, sailed to Malabar and spread Islam among the locals. People from lower Hindu castes also began converting to Islam to gain social ascendancy — and they brought with them their matriarchal system into the unfolding social milieu.
**
Today, this system lives on among the Moplahs, most prominently in Kozhikode and Malappuiram. The labyrinthine network of back roads and narrow lanes known as Kuttichira in downtown Kozhikode is a typical Moplah locality. The crisscrossing lanes are dotted with century-old ancestral homes called tharavads, not to mention historic mosques in the shade of hundred-year-old trees. Wayside teashops called chayakadas are ubiquitous too. Moplah culture pulsates through this locality — and its inhabitants wear it on their sleeves.

A smug pride in their old culture and traditions is unmistakable. And that culture demands that Moplah women be veiled while outdoors. However, inside the four walls of their homes the old matriarchal system derived from their ancestors rules, granting women higher social status and special powers. While girls live on in their parents’ home even after marriage, the boys either live with their in-laws or visit their spouses, joining their in-laws for supper everyday and staying on for the night. They may contribute financially to the household, but their visiting rights and status remain unchanged nevertheless. Understandably, this system created large families.

‘Kattil Veedu’, a taravad with a lineage that goes back 400 years, holds the record with 100 family members under one roof. The extended family though number 3000 — spread all across the globe. ‘Kattil Veedu’ stands not far from Mishkal Mosque in Kuttichira, close to where a Sufi’s house once stood and referred to by none other than Ibn Batuta, the 14th century Moroccan traveller.
**
Built by a rich Arab businessman and ship owner Nakhooda Miskal nearly 700 years ago, the five-storied Mishkal Mosque, located in the heart of Kuttichira, is an architectural and historical landmark. With intricate carvings on its numerous wooden doors and ceilings, the shrine is reminiscent of Kerala’s unique temple architecture, especially with the Gopuram-style entrance arches and the conspicuous absence of minarets. Mosques here generally sport a square or rectangular tank similar to temples. **

Interestingly, the Kuttichira tank is sacred to both Hindus and Muslims for, according to legend, a rich and influential woman Kuttishira had donated the tank to the Muslim community. Moss covered laterite benches around the tank invite men in the locality who gather here for after-dinner chats. The Malayalam they speak shows Arab influence too, their dialect being a little different from mainstream Malayalam. You might even hear an old ballad, belted out on late moonlit nights. Mappila songs have a unique charm and carry a mix of the ethos and culture of Kerala as well as West Asia, dealing mainly with diverse themes such as religion, satire, love and heroism.

The adjoining Malappuram district is another Moplah stronghold. The famous Moplah Mutiny, symbolising the rebellion of the raging Moplahs against colonial rule that spanned two centuries, originated here. The persecution and tyranny of the British and the valiant revolt by the ethnic population have been immortalised in numerous Moplah ballads.

The Malabar rebellion of 1921, which claimed the lives of 258 Moplahs, is considered no less than a landmark in India’s freedom struggle — a reminder of the valour and patriotic fervour of these valiant community. That valour is exemplified by the important figure of Kunjali Marakkar, a title the Zamorin kings bestowed on him in the early 16th century for the first time. Kunjali Marakkar I was appointed the admiral of the Zamorin’s fleet. But his son and successor, Muhammad Kunjali, is considered the true Kunjali Marakkar.

Muslim influence within the kingdom was at its zenith during the time of this valiant warrior who fought pitched battles with the Portuguese. In 1598, the entire crew of a Portuguese ship met a watery grave at his hands near the offshore Velliamkallu rocks near Payyoli.

Today, the Indian naval ship ‘I N S Kunjali’ honours the bravery and patriotism of this long forgotten admiral of the Zamorins. Outside Kozhikode, on the southern banks of the River Moorad at Kottakal, a small museum housing some of his war relics is another memento.
**
As elsewhere in Kerala rice and fish form the staple of the Moplah diet. However, there are marked variations in their cooking and carry a strong Arab influence.**

Re: Tipu Sultan - Hero or Villian

How is the above post related to Tipu sultan. Can you mention why the Malabar rebellion took place and how it turned into a massacre of their neighbours who did not share their religion ?

Re: Tipu Sultan - Hero or Villian

Another thing I'd like to point out is that if tipu sultan was so cruel with his subjects, when the British attacked they should have had a walk in the park with people revolting and siding with them to get rid of the bigot ruling them. Why did the oppressed people side with tipu to give a tough time to the British in the many battles that ensued?

Re: Tipu Sultan - Hero or Villian

Ethnic Conflict and Civic Life: Hindus and Muslims in India - Ashutosh Varshney - Google Books

Re: Tipu Sultan - Hero or Villian

Read the coloured part, about the conversions towards Islam (in Kerala). During the past 40 years the Muslims have increased from 20 to 24 percent, is it still being spread through force?

Re: Tipu Sultan - Hero or Villian

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Re: Tipu Sultan - Hero or Villian

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Re: Tipu Sultan - Hero or Villian

We are talking about Tipu sultan's forced conversions. Not the spread of various religion in the past 40 years. I am sorry if he is a hero figure to you. I come from the same state he ruled and the people here never thought much of him. He ruled a state which his father had usurped by deceit for 16 years. Aurangazeb was a fanatic too. Then why didn't his subjects rise against him and side with the Marathas to over throw him ? Wait for some people Aurangazeb was a hero too. I have already mentioned that he is both a hero and villain. I acknowledge his heroism and innovations and condem his bigotry.
Tipu sultan did a lot of good work too. He created governments depts and made military innovations. But his cruel treatment of his enemy hindus overshadows what good he did. He also tried to impose persian on a kannada speaking people because he had a grand idea of making it some islamic empire in the model of the mughal empire. He forced islamic names on existing towns. Mysore was renamed Naserbad. Even now a part of Mysore has retained that name. He also endorsed temples and granted lands but as one historian puts it "the acts of Tippu that were constructive towards Hindus were largely political and ostentatious rather than an indication of genuine tolerance."
Believe what U will. Prove the letters he wrote were not authentic or that Archeological Survey of India's confirmation of the temples he destroyed are not true with proper links and I will change my stance.
OTOH the Nawabs of Carnatic ruled a hindu population too but did not indulge in the things that Tipu sultan did. So we don't here people badmouthing them. Thats all I have to say about the subject. I am outta here.

Re: Tipu Sultan - Hero or Villian

my very own friend/roomate (in engineering) comes from same northern kerala with royal background,he didn't have nice words to say about tipu
their whole family had to disband and fled to defferents parts

this is coming from a guy who is a huge fan of tipu,
lol i remember visiting all the mysore palace, his death place near srirangam

Re: Tipu Sultan - Hero or Villian

I dont know about the authenticity of the letters, but from the most reliable wikipedia.

Tipu Sultan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Criticism of British accountsBrittlebank, Hasan, Chetty, Habib and Saletare, amongst others, argue that stories of Tipu Sultan’s religious persecution of Hindus and Christians are largely derived from the work of early British authors such as Kirkpatrick[SUP][32]](Tipu Sultan - Wikipedia)[/SUP] and Wilks,[SUP][33]](Tipu Sultan - Wikipedia)[/SUP] whom they do not consider to be entirely reliable.[SUP][34]](Tipu Sultan - Wikipedia)[/SUP] A. S. Chetty argues that Wilks’ account in particular cannot be trusted,[SUP][35]](Tipu Sultan - Wikipedia)[/SUP] Irfan Habib and Mohibbul Hasan argues that these early British authors had a strong vested interest in presenting Tipu Sultan as a tyrant from whom the British had liberated Mysore.[SUP][36]](Tipu Sultan - Wikipedia)[/SUP] This assessment is echoed by Brittlebank in her recent work where she writes that Wilks and Kirkpatrick must be used with particular care as both authors had taken part in the wars against Tipu Sultan and were closely connected to the administrations of Lord Cornwallis and Richard Wellesley, 1st Marquess Wellesley.[SUP][37]](Tipu Sultan - Wikipedia)[/SUP]

Re: Tipu Sultan - Hero or Villian

summarise, if you have gone through it :)

Re: Tipu Sultan - Hero or Villian

I read it too. So it is a good thing that I am not using British accounts and the reason I suggested using Tipu Sultan’s correspondence and Archeological Survey of Inida’s findings.

Re: Tipu Sultan - Hero or Villian

Not sure of the authenticity, but the article below makes an interesting reading about Tipu sultan and the women in his harem

Tipu Sultan and his women – The Harem at Seringapatam | The Seringapatam Times

Re: Tipu Sultan - Hero or Villian

History’s rocket man Tipu Sultan gets his due](http://www.deccanchronicle.com/channels/nation/south/history’s-rocket-man-tipu-sultan-gets-his-due-493)

Tipu Sultan, the celebrated Tiger of Mysore, made critical innovations in the Mysorean rockets that his father Hyder Ali first used as weapons of war, and built a 6,000-strong artillery brigade in the 18th century, a technology later borrowed by the British when they went to war.

Over 200 years later, the Ministry of Defence has finally decided to give Tipu and Srirangapatna their due when it announced it would mark the Rocket Court, the laboratory where Tipu tested his mini-missiles at the birthplace of rocket technology.

**Tiger of Mysore Tipu Sultan designed, manufactured and fired the world’s first war-use rocket in the late 1790s. After decades of neglect, the birthplace of rocket and missile technology – Rocket Court – in Srirangapatna, has got its due from the Union Defence Ministry.
**

**The historic site where Tipu manufactured rockets will be preserved and converted into a Rocket Museum, thanks to the ongoing 39th Committee on Space Research (COSPAR) meet here, which credited the recent advancements in rocket science to Mysore rocketry under Tipu’s rule.
**

Dr. W. Selvamurthy, Chief Controller (R&D), Life Sciences, Defence Research Development Organisation (DRDO), will visit the dilapidated Rocket Court in August and submit a detailed report to the Union government on conserving the site.

**“The DRDO will take up the issue. It’s pathetic that the place which taught the world basics of modern rocket science is facing the threat of extinction,” he told Deccan Chronicle.
**

Former President Dr. A.P.J. Abdul Kalam, popularly known as ‘missile man’ for his exploits in missile technology, has written a separate chapter on rockets of Mysore in his book ‘Wings of Fire’, and describes how he saw the picture of the Mysore’s rocket war in NASA.

Today, the site is an eyesore surrounded by huts. The irony is that both the ASI and State Archaeology departments have disowned the property and blaming each other. A top official of the State Archeology department claimed that Rocket Court has to be protected by ASI. But ASI officials blamed the State Archeology for the ruin.

**Historians say after the fall of Tipu in 1799, 600 launchers, 700 serviceable rockets and 9,000 empty rockets were found in the Rocket Court. Two of the specimens are still preserved in Royal Artillery Museum in London.
**

**After studying the rocket technology adopted by Tipu, the Royal Woolwich Arsenal began a military rocket R&D programme in 1801 and developed Congreve rockets, which were used by the British during the Napoleonic Wars and their confrontation with the US during 1812-14. These descendants of Mysore rockets find mention in the Star Spangled Banner.
**

**According to space scientist and former ISRO chairman Prof. U.R. Rao, the first iron-cased and metal-cylinder rocket artillery was developed by Tipu Sultan and his father Hyder Ali, in the 1780s. Tipu successfully used these rockets against the larger forces of the British East India Company during the Anglo-Mysore Wars in 1792 and 1799.
**

**During the Tipu Sultan Shaheed Memorial Lecture in Bengaluru on November 30, 1991, Dr. Kalam also credited Tipu Sultan with being the innovator of the world’s first war rocket and envisaged interest in knowing how Tipu developed advanced rockets 200 years ago.
**

In fact in 2006, when Dr. Kalam was the President, he had sent then DRDO chief controller Dr. Sivathanu Pillai, who is currently the CEO of Brahmos Aero Space, to Srirangapatna to study the legacy behind Tipu’s Rocket Court.

Re: Tipu Sultan - Hero or Villian

He was an innovator ahead of his times .:k: