Tipu Sultan - Hero or Villian

Arts & Culture History
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Re: Tipu Sultan - Hero or Villian

Tipu sent a letter on 19 January 1790 to the Governor of Bekal, Budruz Zuman Khan. It says:
“Don’t you know I have achieved a great victory recently in Malabar and over four lakh Hindus were converted to Islam? I am determined to march against that cursed Raman Nair (Rajah of Travancore) very soon. Since I am overjoyed at the prospect of converting him and his subjects to Islam, I have happily abandoned the idea of going back to Srirangapatanam now.”

Captivity of Kodavas at Seringapatam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In Seringapatam, the young men were all forcibly circumcised and incorporated into the Ahmedy Corps, and were formed into eight Risalas or regiments.[SUP][2]](Captivity of Kodavas at Seringapatam - Wikipedia)[/SUP] The actual number of Kodavas that were captured in the operation is unclear. The British administrator Mark Wilks gives it as 70,000, Historian Lewis Rice arrives at the figure of 85,000, while Mir Kirmani’s score for the Coorg campaign is 80,000 men, women and child prisoners.[SUP][2]](Captivity of Kodavas at Seringapatam - Wikipedia)[/SUP] In a letter to Runmust Khan, Tipu himself stated:[SUP][3]](Captivity of Kodavas at Seringapatam - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
“We proceeded with the utmost speed, and, at once, made prisoners of 40,000 occasion-seeking and sedition-exciting Coorgis, who alarmed at the approach of our victorious army, had slunk into woods, and concealed themselves in lofty mountains, inaccessible even to birds. Then carrying them away from their native country (the native place of sedition) we raised them to the honour of Islam, and incorporated them into our Ahmedy corps.”

With Coorg depopulated of its original inhabitants, Tipu sought to Islamize it with Muslim settlements. To this end, he brought in 7,000 men from the Shaikh and Sayyid clans, along with their families. However, this attempt proved to be partly successful, as many of them were eventually slain or fled after Tipu lost Coorg. The Coorg capital of Madikeri was also renamed to Zafarabad.

Captivity of Nairs at Seringapatam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Nairs were treated with extreme brutality by the Muslims due to their strong adherence to the Hindu faith and martial tradition.
In his letter to the Governor of Bekal, Budruz Zaman Khan, dated 13 February 1756, Tipu approved of forced conversions of Nairs:[SUP][11]](Captivity of Nairs at Seringapatam - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
"Your two letters, with the enclosed memorandums of the Nâimâ (Nair) captives, have been received. You did right in causing a hundred and thirty-five of them to be circumcised, and in putting eleven of the youngest of these into the Usud Ilhye band, and the remaining ninety-four into the Ahmedy troops, consigning the whole, at the same time, to the charge of the Kiladar of Nugr (Bednore).
In May of the same year, an order was sent to the Faujdar of Calicut, Arshad Ali Baig, pertaining to the treatment of a Nair dissident:[SUP][11]](Captivity of Nairs at Seringapatam - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
“Getting possession of the villain, Goorkul, and of his wife and children, you must forcibly make Mussalmans out of them, and then dispatch the whole under a guard to Seringapatam.”
Proclamation In 1788, Tipu issued a proclamation to the Nairs of Malabar, wherein he outlined his new scheme of social reform:[SUP][12]](Captivity of Nairs at Seringapatam - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
“From the period of the conquest until this day, during twenty-four years, you have been a turbulent and refractory people, and in the wars waged during your rainy season, you have caused number of our warriors to taste the draught of martyrdom. Be it so. What is past is past. Hereafter you must proceed in an opposite manner, dwell quietly and pay your dues like good subjects and since it is the practice with you for one woman to associate with ten men, and you leave your mothers and sisters unconstrained in their obscene practices, and are thence all born in adultery, and are more shameless in your connections than the beasts of the fields : I hereby require you to forsake these sinful practices and be like the rest of mankind; and if you are disobedient to these commands, I have made repeated vows to honour the whole of you with Islam and to march all the chief persons to the seat of Government.”
His proclamation was met with widespread resentment and consequently, the Hindus of Malabar rose in rebellion.[SUP][12]](Captivity of Nairs at Seringapatam - Wikipedia)[/SUP] 30,000 Brahmins fled to Travancore, out of fear of being converted to Islam.

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You and calypsodc are having quality discussion and i dont want to bring down that quality…:smiley:

Waise jab kuchh material milega i will jump in…:smiley:

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Door Darshan is government owned and being completely historically accurate can cause old resentments to rise again and nobody wants that. :slight_smile:
I used to live in the old kingdom of Tipu Sultan. Many Hindus dislike him even today. Muslims consider him as a hero. :slight_smile:

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But you might know his relationship with Napoleon.

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Ahmedy corps?

BTW, what was the part of hindu subjects and forcibly new converts, when Tipu fought against the British? Did they try to help outsiders to get rid of Tipu? Considering, he was good in technology, did his defeat was due to these forced conversions?

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Ahmedy corps means muslim corps bro................:D

dont confuse it.......:D

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Yes, I think Ahmedi sect came into being much after Tipu. Thanks for clarification.

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Tipu Sultan is considered a hero in India due to his fight against the British. But his treatment of non-Muslim subjects will never truly allow him to be considered a hero in India.

Forced conversions of Hindus by Tipu Sultan is a big reason for why Islam reached South India.

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Mir Sadiq held the post of a minister in the cabinet of Tipu Sultan of Mysore in India. In the Fourth Anglo-Mysore War, he is alleged to have betrayed the sultan by siding with the British. He allegedly pulled the Mysorean army from the battlefield for collecting wages in the midst of the battle which allowed the British forces to storm the boundary wall with little defence, paving the way for a British victory.[SUP]citation needed][/SUP] Sadiq was killed at the Battle of Seringapatam by dismayed Mysorean troops immediately following the defeat as he attempted to go over to the British.
Mir Sadiq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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tipu sultan is considered a hero in modern india because of his stance against the british, but he is not a popular figure in kerala. he had invaded northern kerala several times. he took large numbers of prisoners from the nair community (they were the bulk of the armies of kerala kings and chieftains) and shipped them as slaves to mysore. some of these nairs ended up holding high posts in his government for a while.

but one has to remember, at this time, he was but one of the many forces trying to gain control of the ports of kerala. the portuguese were busy trying to expand their territory around Kannur, the dutch were holding Cochin. the french and the brits were circling. he was just another one of those trying to get in on the wealth from the spice trade.

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was that necessary to convert people to gain power over the area? As many people are saying that made him unpopular amongst Non-Muslims todate

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my mom's side of the family is from northern kerala, in a muslim majority district close to areas like feroke and sultan batteri that were under tipu's control. we've never heard of conversions by "the sultan". this stuff is more recent, and i suspect the work of neo-cons like the VHP whose influence has been increasing in kerala. the areas he invaded had traditionally had large muslim populations owing to their close trade ties with arabia (arabs and before them jews used to be the spice merchants along this coast). but he did disrupt life for many in kerala and is not popular there.

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How do u fool historians especially since his own letters are being used as evidence against him ? Do U have reliable links debunking the info in the wikipedia ?

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A part of my family which is from Mysore and they and many others don't think highly of him either.

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Published: February 01, 1990

Sripangapatna Journal; Sultan Died a Hero. Now Hindus Sully His Name. - New York Times

**Tipu Sultan, the swashbuckling 18th-century hero who died here on the ramparts of his fort, trying to stop the British advance across South India, would seem an ideal subject for a television documentary in a land proud of its staunch anticolonialism. But no, not in India in 1990. Tipu Sultan was a Muslim.
**
As the film of his life, being made by a well-known actor-director, Sanjay Khan, nears completion, it has engendered protests from Hindu organizations and calls to have it banned because, its critics say, it portrays its subject in too favorable a light and could provoke violent controversy.

**‘‘There is something wrong with the weather in this country these days,’’ said Syed Gulzar Pasha, a teacher at a boys’ school in the mosque rebuilt and enlarged by Tipu Sultan and his father, Haidar Ali.
**
**Mr. Gulzar was talking about the religious climate, and the rise of Hindu militancy.
**
In Srirangapatna, Hindus tell a visitor that the mosque, the Jammu Masjid, was built on Hindu temple land, and they show carvings in the outer wall as evidence. A similar controversy over a mosque in the northern Indian town of Ayodhya has left hundreds dead. How Tolerant Was He? Standing on the Jammu Masjid’s rooftop terrace overlooking the battlements of the fort where Tipu Sultan died in 1799, Mr. Gulzar described how much more strongly ecumenical India seemed to be two centuries ago. He showed how Hindu elements were incorporated in the design of the Jammu Masjid’s minarets, and he told of Tipu Sultan’s generosity to nearby Hindu temples.

Indian scholars and the documents they work with are pretty much on Mr. Gulzar’s - and Tipu Sultan’s -side in the debate over the 18th-century ruler’s reputation. But the dispute has delayed the screening of the serialized film, ‘‘The Sword of Tipu Sultan,’’ based on a historical novel by Bhagwan S. Gidwani, a retired Indian civil servant living in Montreal who devoted 13 years to part-time research on his book in the archives of half a dozen countries. Mr. Gidwani, a Hindu, dedicated the book ‘‘to the country which lacks a historian; to men whom history owes rehabilitation.’’

At the heart of the debate is the question of how tolerant or not Tipu Sultan, a fervent Muslim, was of other religions or ethnic communities living in and around the kingdom of Mysore, which he ruled from 1782 to his death in 1799.

Several leading Hindu organizations assert that he forcibly converted non-Muslims and ruled with terror and torture.

Both Tipu Sultan and his father, Haidar Ali, were, in modern parlance, military strongmen. Haidar Ali, another anti-British resistance leader, seized power in Mysore in 1761 during the decline of the Mughal Empire and built a strong economy, powerful army and cosmopolitan administration in this region.

A Legendary Figure

Tipu Sultan became a legendary figure inspiring stories that he could wrestle down tigers with his bare hands. He later adopted a tiger-skin motif on his war banners, a design reproduced on the cloth that covers his stone coffin in a mausoleum here.

Murals on the walls of his summer palace outside the fort show his army of elephants, cavalry and foot soldiers marching into battle in great splendor, bristling with swords, against the British in their familiar red coats.

The defenders of Tipu Sultan say that when he was not fighting the British, he busied himself improving irrigation and agriculture and making just laws. The 1988 Annual Journal of the **Tipu Sultan Research Institute and Museum, based in a small office in the compound of his tomb, called the Gumbaz, reprinted parts of a 1786 proclamation that abolished flogging and whipping. The edict also said:

‘‘Looting a conquered army enriches a few, impoverishes the nation and dishonors the entire army. War must be linked to the battlefields. Do not carry it to innocent civilians. Honor their children and the infirm.’’ A lobby dedicated to supporting Tipu Sultan’s rightful place in national history is growing daily in newspaper columns and letters to the editor. Records of his achievements are being publicized by those who believe that the monarch of Mysore was vilified first and most harshly not by his compatriots but by British historians of the time who sought to justify the East India Company army’s relentless attacks on him.**

A Warning of Riots

Some unofficial British chroniclers of the time were more objective and appreciative, Indian scholars say. But no one seems sure where this controversy could lead if religious emotions are stirred.

**The president of the Kerala branch of the Bharatiya Janata Party, a Hindu-based organization that supports the Government of Prime Minister V. P. Singh, recently made a public appeal to India’s Government television network, Doordarshan, not to screen a film about a man he called ‘‘a traitor and a terrorist.’’
**
The Kerala party leader, K. Raman Pillai, said that if the documentary was shown there could be riots.

**Many others think this attitude is not only inaccurate but tragic.
**
**‘‘In the entire century of resistance to the British between 1750 and 1850,’’ S. Vijayalakshmi wrote in the research journal, ‘‘Haidar Ali and his son Tipu Sultan stand out as the shining examples of patriotism.’’
**

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The british villainified him to a great extent. Nobody is questioning his governance. Since the reports can be exaggerated by various parties to further their own agenda, why don’t we stick to the proof we do have ? The letters written by his own hand can shed some
light on this matter. So comment on that .

IndiaStar Bookreview: Tipu Sultan, Villain or Hero, edited by Sita Ram Goel

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The attitude of Muslim Ruler Tipu Sultan towards Hindus has been the subject of acrimonious debate in India in recent times with historians questioning the generally held belief that Tipu Sultan had a secular outlook.[SUP][7]](Anti-Hindu sentiment - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
In the first part of his reign in particular he appears to have been notably more aggressive and religiously doctrinaire than his father, Haidar Ali.[SUP][8]](Anti-Hindu sentiment - Wikipedia)[/SUP] Malayalam writer V.V.K. Valath has claimed[SUP][9]](Anti-Hindu sentiment - Wikipedia)[/SUP] that Tippu Sultan was a religious persecutor of Hindus. In 1780 CE he declared himself to be the Padishah or Emperor of Mysore, and struck coinage in his own name without reference to the reigning Mughal Emperor Shah Alam II. H. D. Sharma writes that in his correspondence with other Islamic rulers such as Shah Zaman of Afghanistan, Tippu Sultan used this title and declared that he intended to establish an Islamic Empire in the entire country, along the lines of the Mughal Empire which was at its nadir during the period in question.[SUP][10]](Anti-Hindu sentiment - Wikipedia)[/SUP] His alliance with the French was supposedly aimed at achieving this goal by driving his main rivals, the British, out of the subcontinent.

C. K. Kareem also notes that Tippu Sultan issued an edict for the destruction of Hindu temples in Kerala.[SUP][11]](Anti-Hindu sentiment - Wikipedia)[/SUP] ** The archaeological survey of India has listed three temples - throughout India - which were destroyed during the reign of Tipu Sultan. These were the Harihareshwar Temple at Harihar which was converted into a mosque, the Varahswami Temple in Seringapatam and the Odakaraya Temple in Hospet.**[SUP][12]](Anti-Hindu sentiment - Wikipedia)[/SUP] The list is incomplete and has not considered temples such as in Keladi, Ikkeri and Sagar

Historian C. Hayavadana Rao wrote about Tippu in his encyclopaedic work on the History of Mysore. He asserted that Tippu’s “religious fanaticism and the excesses committed in the name of religion, both in Mysore and in the provinces, stand condemned for all time. His bigotry, indeed, was so great that it precluded all ideas of toleration”. He further asserts that the acts of Tippu that were constructive towards Hindus were largely political and ostentatious rather than an indication of genuine tolerance

Anti-Hinduism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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^ this debate seems to be run by some Hindu historians, who picked up the straws from the Brits of Tipu's time. They had to villify him to justify their own actions in Mysore.

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I partially agree with the statement that "Islam" was spread in the subcontinent by force. The muslim invaders conquered most parts of India by using excessive force, but were they the only invaders in the subcontinent? Were they more brutal than Mongols? Bear in mind Moghuls themselves were Turkish speaking Mongols.

This is a fraction of the truth, how can the proponents of "islam spread by force" conveniently forget the caste system that was prevalent in India at that time which was a big reason for conversions and the biggest source were the sufis and its easier to verify that in those areas where these people worked a lot are more muslim as compared to others. By using excessive force one can conquer people but you cant convert them, USSR has tried the same in Central Asian republics but failed. They are trying their luck with Chechnya and Dagestan now...

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U seem to be in some sort of denial unfortunately. So let us stick to his letters.

1.What do you think of the letters written by him boasting of converting people ? I provided the links from the wikipedia. So we can stick to Tipu Sultan's own testimony and leave aside the historians for the time being.
2.The archaeological survey of India has listed three temples - throughout India - which were destroyed during the reign of Tipu Sultan. These were the Harihareshwar Temple at Harihar which was converted into a mosque, the Varahswami Temple in Seringapatam and the Odakaraya Temple in Hospet . What are your ideas here ? Why did he do such a thing ?